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China Military Exercise...
Night Stalker
Member Posts: 11,967
uhh ohh [:0] an alliance?
Moscow Times
January 31, 2005
Pg. 4
China Military Exercise
MOSCOW (AP) -- Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Belousov said the country's first military exercises with China will begin in August, news agencies reported Friday.
Belousov said the exercises, called Cooperation 2005, will be conducted on Chinese territory and include practicing anti-terrorist actions.
NSDQ!
"The Lord knows the way I take, and when He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold" JOB 23:10
Moscow Times
January 31, 2005
Pg. 4
China Military Exercise
MOSCOW (AP) -- Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Belousov said the country's first military exercises with China will begin in August, news agencies reported Friday.
Belousov said the exercises, called Cooperation 2005, will be conducted on Chinese territory and include practicing anti-terrorist actions.
NSDQ!
"The Lord knows the way I take, and when He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold" JOB 23:10
Comments
I see them being strong allies against.........us.
What is it about the most powerful nation on Earth that its citizens (up to and including the President) see boogeymen wherever they look?
Europe wants to form an all-EU rapid reaction force - "it's obviously meant to cut us out!"
China and Russia hold joint exercises - "it's obviously aimed at us!"
Venezuela decides to sell more crude oil to China - "China's going to colonize South America!!!!!!"
Okay, so we don't get invited to every party that gets thrown. Have a good cry and get over it. Only Americans are so conceited as to think that whenever someone does something, it MUST be because of us.
Well, hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of scientists have pretty much proven that the United States is NOT the center of the universe. Sometimes folks just do things because it's in their best interests, not because it's in someone else's worst interests...
It's worse than that! I was at the flea market last Saturday, and guess what, them Chinese is taking over the tool business, the toy business, the clothes business, shoes, socks, you name it!
Now that the Russians are on their side, they'll own the vodka business too! What's an honest American to do except go down to the flea market buy some cheap socks and a bottle of vodka and get drunk while waiting for the Evil duo to attack.
China will be the worlds only Super Power country in 20 years and the US will be flat broke.
If China sold it's US Treasury Bonds the US economy would collapse...tomorrow.
I didn't say we'd be the world's sole superpower for very long - only that China's rise by no means guarantees our demise.
Red,
I didn't say we'd be the world's sole superpower for very long - only that China's rise by no means guarantees our demise.
So it means we will share? Don[}:)]
Don't mess with the Leetle Sheet
"I would not mind being the last man on earth just to see if all those girls were telling me the truth"
"Roma locuta est, causa finita est."
It wasn't cooperation - Uncle Joe Stalin was playing China off against us and the both of us were $#!t-stupid enough to fall for it.
China's got no great love for Russia and vice versa. This may not be the first time they've cooperated, but the fact remains that Russia and China have fought each other more often than either one of them has fought us combined.
Dcon,
If we're smart we will. China has never occupied more land than it felt was necessary to protect itself and any student of history will tell you that China's modern borders deviate very slightly from past imperial borders. Also note that China has rarely occupied foreign territory for very long - its s.o.p. was to pound some poor jerk into submission and accept tribute with the implied understanding that if tribute stopped, the pounding would resume.
Once again - their gain is not necessarily our loss, because if we're smart about it, we can both prosper while sticking it to Europe and Japan.
China's space program....copies of Russian pods, equipment and Russia did all the training:
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-03zn.html
China always has used Russian firearms right? AK, SKS.
Both China and Russia have spies in the US and satellites getting pictures of our military....why would they NOT work together?
China has gained control of the US economy with their exports and Treasury Notes/Bonds held and could defeat us without fireing a shot....Well we all know that was a dream of Russia.
China will be taking Taiwan back here soon and Russia agrees that Taiwan belongs to China. Further ensuring to keep the US out of any fight to get the island back under Chinese control.
China sees the US Navy as it's only threat in getting oil, they are working hard on their deep sea navy and Russia is providing them with equipment, scientists, and now training.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/6/8/200001
Being Red is better then being Dead...Ain't it ?
Your general outlook on life is rather nauseating to people interested in protecting America.
A short question.....Are you on the payroll of every third world country and American hating regime as a professional apologist and rationalizer ?
Phil
I learn something new everyday.
You buy some Chinese goods - doesn't mean you "love" them.
Russia is useful because Russia has weapons they are willing to sell. When the EU arms embargo ends, Russia will suddenly become a lot less attractive to China.
Taiwan? Hell, even we officially agree that Taiwan is part of China.
Weapons - China used Russian firearms because the Chinese military up until today was made up of masses of ignorant peasants. The AK and SKS are darn near idiot proof and the only training required is "point that way, pull the trigger a lot, and hope some of your bullets hit."
"China [is] working hard on a deep sea navy." - And why is that necessarily a threat to us? Any nation that engages in international trade either has to (a) get a blue water navy to defend its naval trade routes or (b) rely on someone else to do it for them. You would agree that option B is unacceptable to us (can you imagine if we had to rely on the British Royal Navy to defend our interests in the Persian Gulf?) - so why should it be any less true for China?
Highball,
"Nauseating" because I happen to think the United States is prosperous enough, strong enough, and smart enough to be able to handle China? I don't know what it is about all of you so-called "patriots", but every last one of you is absolutely convinced the U.S. is headed straight down the toilet and that every Third World sewer poses a dire threat to our existence and could beat us without breaking a sweat... or maybe that's what you want?
Guntech,
I agree - "not enemies" does not mean "friends." Because they are not friends does not mean we have to fight.
I have no idea why the folks here typically espouse such a caged-dog theory of foreign policy. "I p!$$ed here and here and here and here and don't you come near me or I'll bark and I'll bite!" Everything is a threat unless it rolls over on its back and spreads its legs for us - and while that worked great for the vikings, I like to think that we've come a little bit further than burning down abbeys and raping the nuns therein.
It is our very prosperity and strength that makes the lot of you paranoid because it sucks being the big cheese - our culture romanticizes the underdog (more people celebrate Robert E. Lee than U.S. Grant... Grant was the winner, by the way), so we cast ourselves as the poor put-upon superpower that could collapse at any minute because Saddam Hussein and his three non-functional MiGs are going to kill us all...
So, to use some very small words, let me sum this up: China is not our enemy. It is not our friend. But it is there. And we can either cooperate (seeing as how confrontation was tried and didn't work so well) or we can bang our heads against a brick wall, kill millions of people, and then wonder why we were so stupid in bankrupting ourselves in yet another pointless war.
I was in China about 10 years ago - mostly in and around Shanghai. Shanghai is one of China's most dynamic industrial zones - and the largest city in the world. They were just beginning some modern heavy industrial plant construction. Construction was moving steadily along at a comfortably slow pace - at a rate that was pretty consistant
with that of a third world country in the 90s.
I was there on business last August, again. Most of my time was spent
visiting their new heavy machine tool plant complexes up and down the Huangpu River, as well as a couple visits to their textile centers in and around Wuxi and Suzhou. I didn't even recognize the place(s)!
I would say it's time to be afraid, very, very afraid of what China's becoming and where she's going. As far - and way beyond - as the eye can see, in every direction, not only are they on a full 24/7/365 production schedule but the frantic construction of new manufacturing centers and defense industries are going along at breakneck speed in all of China's industrial areas.
Interestingly, our media has turned a fairly blind eye towards the monster that's coming down the road towards us.
I've never seen anything like it nor have the European and Japanese engineers who I accompanied there, either.
Being an alarmist has nothing to do with it. It's either 'keep up' or 'get out of the way' time! The Chinese are headed our way with the deftness of 100,000 steam rollers! They are not concentrating on tennis shoes or Mac Donald giveaway toys, either!
Incidentally, they are going to be marketing their first cars in the US sometime in this summer, I believe. It's not going to be another ridiculous Yugo farce, either.
Just my 2? worth,
S
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne
These places are far away, so we dont worry about them too much, but if you add up all the territory China is ready to sieze in the name of consolidating and protecting its historic borders, it amounts to an area bigger than North America. And whose gonna stop them?
I agree - prudence never hurt anyone. I'm glad you did not mistake my call for "cooperation" to mean "subservience."
They will achieve parity with us pretty soon - and we have a choice of beating the world up with them or being on the receiving end.[;)]
Texas Shooter,
Let's nuke North Korea instead - I've got a soft spot in my heart for Hong Kong.[;)]
Texas Shooter,
Let's nuke North Korea instead - I've got a soft spot in my heart for Hong Kong.[;)]
OK, let's Nuke all of them slanty-eyed meanies
Careful now...
I didn't buy Chinese goods, this partial Chinese made military uniform was issued to me. Congress loves them and not American workers.
Colin Powell opened his mouth and said Taiwan is part of China.
Read the Taiwan Relations Act:
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/tra01.htm
The Act says we support Taiwan to be a free nation thru peaceful measures...using embargo's against China.
Since the U.S. dollar is worthless the only means the Govt. has to keep the dollar at it's current value is to allow China to import super cheap goods to make American's THINK their money still has value. Since we HAVE to import chinese junk we HAVE to give them Taiwan and ignore the Taiwan Relations Act or China will pull the plug from our economy.
China isn't pursuing Aircraft Carriers for protection of it's oil imports because pirates are taking it. They know eventually the US Navy may try to do a trade block on them and they need the means to prevent the US Navy from doing so.
We aren't paranoid thinking China is going to defeat us. We KNOW China can defeat us. They are in Space, have Nukes, and pretty cool laser weapons. They can completely disable military satellites in Space that will turn JDAM's into dumb bombs. They can defeat all of our communication systems (space+land), transportation systems, aircraft, etc. with a atmospheric burst of a nuke.
There is no way to stop the Chinese if they place a few nukes in the right spots and all we are doing now is feeding them money to become a Super power quicker. The Chinese have never been our allies and if you think they have no plans on fighting us one day you would be quite naive.
There is no way to stop the Chinese if they place a few nukes in the right spots and all we are doing now is feeding them money to be a Super power quicke!
Actually, most Americans don't know this ... but ... all ANYONE has to do is to take out our seven largest seaports - a simple thing to do with seven small yield suitcase nukes and some plutonium (the Russians are still admitting to 'losing 142 of them after the collapse of the Good Ole USSR) - as I understand it, the United States would immediately die on the vine - no oil - no imports - not much life within about 30 days.
Since exploded suitcase nukes are not traceable - no retaliation possible.
Like it or not - it's as simple as that. No muss, no fuss, no one left around.
"The Chinese have never been our friends."
Read some history. As corrupt, ineffective, and stupid as Chiang Kai-Shek was, the Nationalists were our allies during World War II. Communist guerillas, under Mao, helped rescue downed pilots from the Japanese.
If we are enemies, it's because we're looking for one. Our foreign policy is based almost entirely upon competition and confrontation. We got ourselves involved in conflicts in areas of the world we had zero interest in because the evil, evil Soviets were there - and once the Soviets left, so did we. It was a way of keeping score and nothing else.
But now that the Evil Empire has expired and is keeping such other notable successes as New Coke, Betamax, and Brigitte Nielsen's career company, we have to cast about for someone or something to compete against.
A things to remember:
1) We have to realize that all nations have interests.
2) Their interests and our interests need not always conflict. They may, but don't have to.
3) "Not friends" does not mean "enemies." I don't want to go to war with every stranger I meet on the off chance that they may buy the last Heath bar at my local 7-11, nor should we feel threatened whenever China (or someone else) goes to some Third World dive we've never even heard of for oil - like 7-11's, chances are there's more of where that came from somewhere else. When there isn't, then we can go to war if there's nothing interesting on T.V.
Apparently you're not paying attention, The Chinese can bomb our seven ports and shut off all flow of vital supplies, including Heath bars, within days, all life as we know it will be over in 30 days. I dont know about you but I'm going down to the 7-11 right now and stock up and anybody who gets in my way is going to regret it. I'll spend my last 30 days mucnhing on Three Musketeers Bars and dont expect me to share.
Ain't those Chinks Commies too?
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne
And we can bomb all of theirs - but just because we can doesn't mean we will or they will.
Texas,
Okay, we're all happy you know the proper racial epithet to use against the Chinese. Did you want a cookie?
What were you thinking when you posted that? "Man! I'm gonna call them 'chinks' and everyone's gonna be mighty impressed that I put them little yeller fellers in their place! Dur-hah! See ma? Look! Look what I done put down!"
Okay, you're a man now. A rather stupid one, but you can now go to the buffet line without adult supervision. There... feel better?
Hughbetcha,
And we can bomb all of theirs - but just because we can doesn't mean we will or they will.
Texas,
Okay, we're all happy you know the proper racial epithet to use against the Chinese. Did you want a cookie?
What were you thinking when you posted that? "Man! I'm gonna call them 'chinks' and everyone's gonna be mighty impressed that I put them little yeller fellers in their place! Dur-hah! See ma? Look! Look what I done put down!"
Okay, you're a man now. A rather stupid one, but you can now go to the buffet line without adult supervision. There... feel better?
Oh man, I feel so ashamed now. Thanks EMM, thanks for straightening me out. But you called them "little yeller fellers"...that ain't right either my Pinko Friend.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne
Why would an aggressor want to face certain nuclear obliteration unless he was stupid or had to? Attacking the US publicly world mean certain obliteration, fast and sure.
Read up on the SOR (Strategic Oil Reserve) and see if you can find out how long the US will last without oil. It's pretty easily done if you can read. Jane's published a couple of papers a while back. At the moment we have about 30 days SOR and then we don't move. Remember that does NOT include oil/gasoline for private cars, buses, most trucking, etc. Very few of us would be going to work if the oil stops. Those on the Right Coast better hope it happens (if it does) in the summer time. No way to move those Hershey bars, either - low priority items.
If you think the US is afraid of a huge (non-existent) submarine fleet blockading our ports you've got something loose somewhere. The Russian sub fleet has been sitting on the bottom for more than six years now. The Chinese subs are only good to intimidate their neighbours - including the Ruskies - and little else.
All that hubbub during the election campaigning, a few months ago, about the concern that shipping cargo containers were (are) coming into the American ports unchecked had nothing to do with little groups of illegal aliens hiding inside - not even those wearing head scarfs! Nope - now what could they have been thinking about??? Why did it become a non-issue so fast???
Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with paranoia, anymore ... otherwise there would be no SOR, eh?
There is an old scientific axiom - nothing in ~ nothing out.
Paradoxically, the day there IS something in (or eight somethings - can't forget Vancouver) - there will be nothing out ... for a long time.
Another 2?
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains...No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue: and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."-Patrick Henry
Interesting insight. "They aren't like us" sums it up about right, but only insofar as the Chinese have a tendency to take the long view as opposed to our view which, if we're lucky, will take into account the next four years.
But as far as "dominating the planet", that's overstating things a bit much.
Traditional Chinese thinking does hold that China is better than everyone else, but they've been pretty content to sit in China and let everyone else do their thing - note the lack of action on their part when Europeans started gobbling up portions of Asia. With the exception of northern Vietnam (which they considered their territory), the Chinese didn't interfere all that much.
I think that many fears regarding China are based upon a "what would we do?" scenario. We have a tendency to lash out and put bases up everywhere for the sole purpose of "containing" other nations. We did it to the USSR and there was even some talk amongst pundits that Iraq "completed" the encirclement of Iran. In short, we never seek to plant ourselves somewhere unless it's to someone else's detriment.
And that's what we fear China will do to us. Their mindset is, admittedly, pretty foreign (I mean, my God... respecting one's elders and the sanctity of the family... how much more different can you get?), and rather than understand it, we say, "Well, if I were China, I'd blockade the United States or pound her economy into oblivion through a trade war..."
And therein lies the problem - we're NOT China. So we assume the worst case scenario.
And while prudence should not be scoffed at, human nature is as such that when we plan for the worst, chances are we'll do something to make it happen - people dislike (a) to be proven wrong and (b) hate wasting their energy on useless pursuits. So if we plan for a war with China, chances are we'll get one to prove that (a) we were right and (b) we weren't wasting our time. Never mind that it'll likely be our fault (if, for example, we go to war over Taiwan - an idiot's errand if I ever saw one).