Can you trim .454 brass to .45colt length?

H.S. 10-X

O.K. I got to thinking today, if I could trim .454 brass to .45colt length then load up some powerhouse rounds to shoot in either a Ruger Blackhawk or Thompson Center. Now, I know some people will say, "If you want magnum power with a .45, get a .454casull." I've already done that. I realize that is unsafe to load .45colt brass to .44mag power. But I thought due to the strength of a .454 case, it might just work. Has anybody done this before? Surely I can't be the first person to think of this. Please, humor me on this one.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

sxsnuf

Yes you can load the .45 Colt to perform better than the .44 Mag.
Some guys think that if you got a .45 Colt you dont need a .454.
Modern .45 brass is plenty strong.
The horror stories came from the older brass.

H.S. 10-X

I have heard from most sources that it is unsafe to load .45colt to .44mag power, due to .45colt brass being thinner than .44mag brass. What kind of load have you used sxsnuf?


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

sxsnuf

HS10X, I shoot the 44mag. Its a S&W so no hot loads.
My sometimes shootin buddy loads for his Super Blackhawk in 45 Colt.
When shot through his Chrony, his 260 gr. jacketed bullets were travelling over 1500 fps. He says the Ruger has handled hotter than that. I dont know the formula but it can be done.
The manufacturers load the wimpy loads cause theyre scared of the old guns and liability. There are some old gun writers with articles on this subject.

Boomerang

You can load .45LC to surpass the power of a .44 mag without any problems. Using .454 Casull brass to make .45 LC is expensive and not necessary, but hey what ever floats your boat. However, be advised to not use the same published .45LC max loads. You will have pressure problems. Start low and work your way up. Go to www.sixguns.com there is a lot of help loading the .45LC on that website.

Boomer

"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"

NRA Life Member

H.S. 10-X

Thanks for the info. I'm kinda new to reloading, and didn't want to end up damaging a gun, doing something stupid.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

rpo242

Modern reloading manuals have 'Blackhawk' loads for the .45 Colt.
They are really pretty hot. If you want hotter than that, you need to have a five hole cylinder made and get the loading info. from the custom maker.

You can't miss fast enough.

woodsrunner

While this is possible there are other factors to consider. The thicker brass would have less internal volume so pressures would rise without increasing powder charge. You'd be in a no mans land for pressure data. Also you'd probably have to thin the case walls at the mouth of the shortened brass. The result would probably be a very short case life because of split mouths.

It's a game that might tempt me with a 45 Colt chambered Winchester 94 or Marlin lever gun. But I don't think the gains would be worth it in a handguns short barrel.

Woods

jsergovic

Very interesting . .. ! ...

To Be . . . . Or Not To Be .. ... .. . .. .. . A Re-Loader ... !!! !!.!!

I keep being drawn to this idea of reloading. Just '45s at first...
What's my start-up cost?

cletus85

You can get started handloading very inexpensively, and if handgun ammo is your main line a real strong press isn't necessary...but I'd buy a decent one because you will eventually handload almost everything.

You need:
1) A press - some will laugh, but while I was in college I took a Lee reloader press (because it was small and light) and loaded thousands of rounds with it.
2) A Powder scale (technically you can use dippers) but I wouldn't
3) Load Data- Lots of free available
4) Dies of the proper caliber
5) A powder measure (thrower) technically not necessary, but if you want to load more than a few rounds you need one.
6) bullets, powder, primers

A starter kit containing everything but components can range from
$70 for a Lee kit to well over $500 for a Redding kit. I'd look at RCBS's Partner kit for $137.99 from midwayusa.com

You will eventually want micrometers and or a caliper for precise measuring. And other specialty tools. But this would get you started.

I'd say your first 500 rounds of .45 ACP ammo could be loaded for a tad over $200. And if you threw your equipment away it'd cost $20 bucks a box. By the time you load 2000 rounds your cost will be down to $9.50 or so a box of 50.

The Recollection of Quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

jsergovic

Still sounding good, Darwin...

Handloading, the way you describe it, reminds me of the beer brewing days,
Putting bottle tops on beer I brewed.

But it's more than that !

"6) bullets, powder, primers " And cartridge casings?

Sounding good, Darwin... sounding good .. ! ... !!! ......

Tailgunner1954

You haven't been throwing your 45ACP brass away have you? Other than A-Merc brass (junk, not worth bothering with) what you have saved, plus any range found brass, that only has 1 flash hole (boxer primed) can be reloaded. Avoid the steel and aluminum cases (Wolf and Blazer).
Normaly, you will lose 45ACP brass before it wears out.


Trimming a expensive case down to make a common one is kinda going backwards. Modern 45LC brass is quite strong, and the different headstamps makes it easier to sort your "target" ammo from your "hunting" stuff.

---

Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.

jsergovic

On my last fifty rounds, I picked up 43.
The terrain is somewhat uneven.

I give my brass to a gunsmith (good for a favor later)...

I'll start keeping it, as I've preached; it is only a matter of time befoe I start reloading.

Contender Man

Also be careful when using loading manuals, don't get in the Contender/Encore section and go for maximum. Sure monsters like the Rugers may handle the load, but, not something I recommend.

Besides peak accuracy generally does not occur at max load.


If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!

H.S. 10-X

Thanks for all of the sound advice. I wasn't sure about the .45colt brass being strong enough, and that idea just popped into my head. I just picked up a really nice stainless Blackhawk 4 5/8" barrel. Not the convertable model that I wanted, but I may try to sell it or trade up to the convertable model. I found a load on sixgunner.com that I may play around with. I'll start low then work my way up and see what my gun likes best. Right now I have some 200gr hardcast bullets that I loaded with 8gr of Win231 powder. Kind of a light load, but it's comfortable for plinking.

jsergovic, this is the reloading set that I bought. Has everything that you need to start except for the shell holders. I just bought a whole set of twelve.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jhtml?id=0012548&navAction=push&navCount=3&indexId=cat20847&parentId=cat20847&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

cletus85

That's a real nice kit H.S. 10X, you'll be glad you got quality equipment the first time.

H.S. 10-X

Thanks cletus85. I like it alot. It's not as fast as a progressive loader, but once you get all the dies set where you want them you can load pretty fast. And I like the fact that I can put two different sets of dies on the turret. The powder measure that it came with is also very consistent.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

aglore

Order Starline Brass. It has to be the best handgun brass made as far as I'm concerned.


http://www.starlinebrass.com/

AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
http://canadianfirearmsexchange.com

aglore@gci.net

H.S. 10-X

Looks like a pretty good deal as well aglore. $11.60 per 100 for .45colt as opposed to $15.00 per 100 of Remington brass I bought from my local guy.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

jsergovic

What's up with buying brass.

Is it better than picking up my Fiocchi and S&B and PMC off the ground (which I have to punch out the primer and put in a "roll cleaner" of some sort?

I didn't see the cleaning machine with that kit, 10-X. Do must guys use new brass?

Do you have to measure every single load on that scale? Sounds tedious.

H.S. 10-X

I like new brass because I can keep track of how many times I reload it. Theres nothing wrong with using once shot brass, you just have to keep in mind that you have already shot it once. Picking up brass off of the range could be a bad idea, you don't know how many times somebody else has reloaded it.
A case cleaner aka. tumbler is one thing I would also like to pick up. Some will say that it is purely for asthetic value to have nice shiny brass, but clean brass also keeps the inside of the dies from being marred from a foreign object. I just wipe them off with a clean cloth prior to loading. That is a tedious thing to do, a tumbler would make that alot easier.
I use the scale to confirm what the powder measure is putting out. Unless you want to get really precise you could measure every load on a scale. But the powder measure that came with my kit seems to be very consistent, once you get it adjusted to the right amount. Then all you have to do is raise and lower the lever to drop a powder charge.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

jsergovic

I get it. The reloader "straightens" out the brass, pops out/in a primer, dumps in the powder, seats the bullet, and squeezes the case?

H.S. 10-X

Sort of. For, example, for pistol there is a die that resizes the case and punches out the primer in one pull of the lever. Then you push in the primer with another die called a ram prime die. Then you use another die that expandes the end of the case to allow the bullet to enter the case. Then you dump in the powder, or you can buy a die that expands and dumps the powder at the same time. Then there is another die that seats and crimps the bullet at the same time with one pull of the lever. It may sound complicated, but I can load a couple hundred rounds in an hour with the Lymann reloading set. There are alot of books out there that will give far better insructions than I could ever think of.

I just did a Yahoo search and typed in the key words, basic reloading, and came up with a bunch of sites that probablly have some really good info.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

jsergovic

No. I like first-hand descriptions. As a plumber, I've seen all sorts of mechanical contraptions. Do you have to move the case from die to die manually, or does the case stay in one place and everything else swings around?

I like the idea of the "die that expands and dumps the powder at the same time". I'm all for automation.

H.S. 10-X

With the Lymann set, it has six threaded holes on a rotating turret. You put each die in one of the threaded holes, and the case stays in the same place. You have to rotate the turret manually for each diffent function. What I do is fill up my loading block with empty cases and do one step at a time for all of the cases then do the next step to all of them, and so on.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

cletus85

Come on jsergovic, take the plunge, you've got a real good understanding of handloading already. I can't imagine shooting any centerfire handgun much without handloading. You can load target ammo for as little as $2.50 per 50 or so and premium jacketed loads for $7-8. What's 50 rounds of premium jacketed hollow point .45 ACP run??? You get the picture most of the good loads are sold for about $12 and up for 20 rounds.

Request midwayusa.com's catalog, you'll love it. Choose a kit in a price range you are comfortable and order it, if you don't like handloading....yeah right, like that's gonna happen....you can sell the kit for a high percentage of original cost.

H.S. 10-X

I agree with cletus, your just gonna have to go for it. I'm sure you'll figure it out on you own just fine. Once you do, I think you'll really enjoy it. There's just something about shooting a round that you made yourself.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

jsergovic

I shoot 230 gr. FMJ, they cost about 9~10 per 50. AE, S&B, PMC. NO BLAZER, NO UMC, AND NEVER ANY WOLF.

I've heard lightening up the powder loads makes a more accurate shot.
I never liked the lead bullets, but copper-coated ones can't be that much more.

Alright, I'll go online tomorrow and check out Midway. And go to the manufacturer's website and look at their product detail. I actually have a shop where I can do this now.

Thanks for the encouragement.

jsergovic

quote: What I do is fill up my loading block with empty cases and do one step at a time for all of the cases then do the next step to all of them, and so on.

So you take the cases in and out manually one at a time to complete one step, or is the "loading block" an assemblage in which you can secure multiple cases, and slide it through (say, left to right) and hit teach case with the operation that's set up in the turret?

And yes, I'm on my way to Googgle and "basic reloading".
But it still sounds more clear this way.

I've gone on sites for complete disassembly of my Colt 1991 and get lost 3/4 of the way through. So far, reloading sounds easy.

How about the residue unside the case? If I'm not tumbling, is it a problem?

H.S. 10-X

Yes, I have to insert a case into the press, pull the lever, performing the operation, sizing, decapping, etc., then put the case into the empty loading block.
My loading block is just a piece of wood with fifty holes in it big enough to set my cases into. I use two of them, as I do one operation I move the case to the other loading block. Then when I do all fifty cases, I do the next operation and move the cases back to the other loading block.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

TRAP55

Jim, on a turret press the dies rotate, the case stays stationary. On a progressive press like the LEE 1000 the dies are stationary and the case revolves around to each station. Tumbling cases cleans oxidation from the brass and allows for visual inspection and reduces wear on a carbide sizer. A single stage press will give you about 50 rounds an hour, a progressive will give you about 500 rph,but limits you on types of calibers you can reload.