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Interesting Mauser

Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Discussion

Comments

  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It has a couple of things wrong with it. I would need to see the stock right beneath the mount rail too.

    One thing I can divulge since it can't be faked now is the numbers in the barrel channel of the handguard are always in pencil, not stamped.

    I have a spare original slide one mount but no spare scopes.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    One thing I can divulge since it can't be faked now is the numbers in the barrel channel of the handguard are always in pencil, not stamped.
    P3, can you clarify? Out of probably thousands I've seen with a number, only one had hand written numbers in pencil, and it was a RC.
    I know Yugoslavia stamped them, but I have seen Sauer and Erma handguards stamped that didn't make it there. Does make you wonder how they did stamp them, without snapping them in half, or the very least, cracking them.
    Source too please, if you have it, so I can update my notes.
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Traps,
    There is no reference you can find. Back in the 70's and 80's, I belonged to the KCN, Karabiner Collector Network out of Cherry Point, NC. We had over a thousand dedicated members sharing info in our newletter and most was not made public just to confound the fakers and insure we didn't get stuck. For example, On Mauser High Turrets, there is one small stamp hidden from view that MUST be present or the rifle is a fake. It's called the bunny stamp, but you won't find it listed in any pub, specifically Senich's or Law's German sniper books who were members.

    The rifle for sale is not original. There's several clues, but the most obvious one is right in the write up:
    "There is a ZF-41 side rail scope mount with waffen 135 code for duv Berlin-Lubecker which is correct".
    The 135 code is for Mauserwerk. BLM's code (the actual maker) is 214 and that's what should be on it.

    Whoever put that gun together knew no real Mauser collector would be fooled. Snipers are not an area for a novice to tread. There used to be a member named Tank Driver who would buy original parts and make up rifles. When he was discovered selling them without listing they were accurate reproductions, he was kicked out of the network.
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fake or not, It looks beautiful to someone like me that has zero knowledge about them. Love the stock on it. p3 seems to forgot more about these rifles then most of us will ever know, so take his synopsis, that he is giving.[;)] I will have to speak to you guys before i start buying any old military riles. As of now, I only own three. One M1 that is a mishmash of parts, but I love it, and two battlefield pickups, Jap. 7.7, with the bayonets and slings, all original. My dad got them when we owned the gun store. I want a 98k next, but just a shooter for the range. I just want the feel of a gun that was used in battle from WWII or WWI.

    Any suggestions on what I should or shouldn't buy in an old war rifle??? That would include availability on ammo.Oakie
  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have no idea if it's fake or real I tried to research and list the gun as accurately as I could and posted what I thought would be enough photos for a collector to tell. It came from a collection I have sold for an estate (90) guns.
    I know markings and features mean a lot to a collector but I sometimes wonder if during WW II maybe if Hans needed certain parts to complete a weapon and these parts weren't available if maybe Hans substituted parts that were. I realize Hans was extremely rude not considering the concerns of future collectors but there was a war. [:)]
    As I stated no intention to fool anyone. It is a very nice rifle and a no reserve one cent auction. Good luck and thank you for your comments.
  • discusdaddiscusdad Member Posts: 11,427 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    considering Hans took such meticulous records on everything, ie the extermination camps, i can't see subbing out parts on their guns as you suggest Ricci
  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    During WWII ? At a repair station?? I am by no means an expert but I do a fair amount of reading and have to research a lot of guns we sell and who the hell really knows? In any case it is a real Mauser and in nice shape.quote:Originally posted by discusdad
    considering Hans took such meticulous records on everything, ie the extermination camps, i can't see subbing out parts on their guns as you suggest Ricci
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    Traps,
    There is no reference you can find. Back in the 70's and 80's, I belonged to the KCN, Karabiner Collector Network out of Cherry Point, NC. We had over a thousand dedicated members sharing info in our newletter and most was not made public just to confound the fakers and insure we didn't get stuck. For example, On Mauser High Turrets, there is one small stamp hidden from view that MUST be present or the rifle is a fake. It's called the bunny stamp, but you won't find it listed in any pub, specifically Senich's or Law's German sniper books who were members.

    The rifle for sale is not original. There's several clues, but the most obvious one is right in the write up:
    "There is a ZF-41 side rail scope mount with waffen 135 code for duv Berlin-Lubecker which is correct".
    The 135 code is for Mauserwerk. BLM's code (the actual maker) is 214 and that's what should be on it.

    Whoever put that gun together knew no real Mauser collector would be fooled. Snipers are not an area for a novice to tread. There used to be a member named Tank Driver who would buy original parts and make up rifles. When he was discovered selling them without listing they were accurate reproductions, he was kicked out of the network.

    Yes sir, I fully understand all of that, and had no questions about Ricci's rifle being a real deal, I saw what it was right away.
    My question was about the handguard serial numbers. In pencil, was that only on the ZF-41?
    And don't tell me anymore than you have to here on the forum, I'm a full fledged member of the "Don't Feed the Fakers" club! I hold this scum in the same sub-level as child molesters, animal abusers, and gun thieves.
    Ricci Wright, I have no questions about your honesty on your auction. It's just not possible to know all the details, of all forms of collectable firearms. But you can see that when it gets into collector firearms, and a specific niche like a Mauser sniper, you need ALL the info you can get. You could be giving away a rare collector piece, or having to deal with a pizzed off buyer.
    There's a wealth of info here, with real experts on all types of firearms, and it's free for the asking, tap that info like it's another auction tool![:)]
  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Absolutely agree and am most thankful for the input.The way I saw the gun was a really nice condition Mauser. The bore looks like new. The damn thing on the muzzle ruined it as a collector firearm but it is still a nice rifle that should shoot well. I certainly don't want to miss lead anyone and that's why I posted all the photos.
    This gun is from an estate sale and I think it's been in the family for a long time.
    Thank's guys.
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    Traps,
    There is no reference you can find. Back in the 70's and 80's, I belonged to the KCN, Karabiner Collector Network out of Cherry Point, NC. We had over a thousand dedicated members sharing info in our newletter and most was not made public just to confound the fakers and insure we didn't get stuck. For example, On Mauser High Turrets, there is one small stamp hidden from view that MUST be present or the rifle is a fake. It's called the bunny stamp, but you won't find it listed in any pub, specifically Senich's or Law's German sniper books who were members.



    The rifle for sale is not original. There's several clues, but the most obvious one is right in the write up:
    "There is a ZF-41 side rail scope mount with waffen 135 code for duv Berlin-Lubecker which is correct".
    The 135 code is for Mauserwerk. BLM's code (the actual maker) is 214 and that's what should be on it.

    Whoever put that gun together knew no real Mauser collector would be fooled. Snipers are not an area for a novice to tread. There used to be a member named Tank Driver who would buy original parts and make up rifles. When he was discovered selling them without listing they were accurate reproductions, he was kicked out of the network.

    Yes sir, I fully understand all of that, and had no questions about Ricci's rifle being a real deal, I saw what it was right away.
    My question was about the handguard serial numbers. In pencil, was that only on the ZF-41?
    And don't tell me anymore than you have to here on the forum, I'm a full fledged member of the "Don't Feed the Fakers" club! I hold this scum in the same sub-level as child molesters, animal abusers, and gun thieves.
    Ricci Wright, I have no questions about your honesty on your auction. It's just not possible to know all the details, of all forms of collectable firearms. But you can see that when it gets into collector firearms, and a specific niche like a Mauser sniper, you need ALL the info you can get. You could be giving away a rare collector piece, or having to deal with a pizzed off buyer.
    There's a wealth of info here, with real experts on all types of firearms, and it's free for the asking, tap that info like it's another auction tool![:)]


    There's no big secret on the handguard stamp. The Germans made one of the most fragile and thin Mauser handguards ever, especially before laminate came into use. It was very easy to crack.
    In 1944, Albert Speer was in charge of Reichs production of munitions. He doubled production and in some cases, tripled it. He was a bonafied efficiency expert.

    I've never seen a 44 or 45 K98k handguard numbered by stamps. A pencil or none at all as it took less manhours. The Germans used serfs on their numbers that Americans are not used to making. It's easier for a faker to use number stamps than duplicate the Euro style of numbering with a pencil.

    In many ways, it's like looking at Japanese shin gunto swords. Growing up, all that was around were originals. Now that repros are being produced, it's easy to tell the fakes and handling originals is the best way I know to learn.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I've never seen a 44 or 45 K98k handguard numbered by stamps.
    That makes sense, I haven't either unless it was a Yugo rebuild. The Sauer's and Erma's I've seen were all early war production.
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