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Please Settle this Dissagreement

younggunzyounggunz Member Posts: 33 ✭✭
edited August 2003 in General Discussion
I like to shoot paintball with all my friends. We have a lot of fun and its cool.

Shooter4 says, now that I'm learning to shoot "real" firearms and not "toys" that I should give up paintball, sell them, and get into the real thing.

Shooter4 also says that the first rule of firearm safety is to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. And he says that if I get used to pointing a paintball gun at real people trying to "kill them in paintball terms" that this is not a good idea and that I had better get my priorities straight. Shooter4 says that you don't point a gun at a person unless you are aiming to kill.

Honestly, he thinks he know everything (even though he is a certified NRA Instructor and an experinced shooter for many years).

Naturally, I disagree. It is true that a person MIGHT confuse the two and have an accident with a real gun.

Personally, i think that any person in his or her right mind would be able to tell the difference between a real firearm and a paintball gun. There are many things different about the two, like bulkiness
and a dramatic increase in size and weight.

So tell me, what do you think?



"You know their is something wrong with the world when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the USA of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war!"
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Comments

  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think paintball is more closely related to croquet than firearms. There is sufficient difference between the two for it not to be a problem, unless you would similarly confuse driving a golf ball with driving to Dairy Queen.
  • younggunzyounggunz Member Posts: 33 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK- We have decided that we are going to count the replies to whether you agree with either me or shooter4



    "You know their is something wrong with the world when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the USA of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war!"
  • marinerahmarinerah Member Posts: 99 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just keep the safety rules in mind with any gun and you should not have a problem.
  • jujujuju Member Posts: 6,321
    edited November -1
    quote: I think paintball is more closely related to croquet than firearms

    DWS, Tea and Crumpets before we play? or perhaps a cucumber sandwich?


    JuJu (fess up, who here owns a croquet set?)
  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    Lots of guys around here put on the gear and have massive war games with paintball guns. They've got grenades and all. A lot of them are hunters and shooters too. They do it to have some fun during the off season. None of them has ever shot anyone by accident with a "real" gun. I don't think it's much different than training with the lazer active targets. Just follow the safety rules for both. So I vote one for the kid. Sorry Shooter, can I still come by for some beer?

    Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
  • IAMACLONE_2IAMACLONE_2 Member Posts: 4,725
    edited November -1
    I played paintball a couple of times even bought the dang gun. tipman98. Its fun even for old gizzers.
    Paintball is also good self defense sitops practice also.
    You learn concelment and basic tactics quickly, Ouch that hurts!
    When you play with the real thing, its for real and lasting.
    Just be careful, as always
    Walte
  • FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    younggunz I know where your comming from:[:)]

    Shooter4 Has a point. And a good one. A lot of the guys that I know that do paint ball don't own guns. Let me explain, they do it and they are quite honest about it. But they do it for the thrill knowing they won't kill someone. They use it as stress relief. The reality of it is you can not apply paint ball gun handling to the real thing (I know, you know that).

    My mom, like Shooter4 was also an NRA rifle and pistol instructor, trust me, & Shooter4 on his motivations on the issue. It hurts to say it, but if an NRA instructor says thats what you got to do. Just do it.

    hsas157x100.gif
    gun1.gif



    "I know Everything because
    my Wife is a Hair Stylist"
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shooter4 made some good points.
    1. A good rule of firearm safety is to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
    2. You don't point a gun at a person (or anything) unless you are aiming to kill (destroy).
    With real guns these are safety rules you (or someone else) can live or "die" by.

    The body (muscles) learn a practiced action (motion).
    Examples;
    Ever drive a standard? Your left foot "naturally" goes to the clutch pedal, right hand to the shifter.
    If you switch to driving an automatic, have you ever found your foot and hand reverting to the old pattern? Especially approaching a stop light/sign.
    Ever drink pop/beer from a regular size bottle, then switch to a long neck, and find that you sometimes hit yourself in the mouth when going to take a drink?
    For smokers (or ex smokers) who use regular size for years, then get a pack of 100's and find themselves lighting the thing in the middle?

    These are all almost the same, yet with slightly different actions.
    Kind of like the different guns you will use.
    With practice your body/mind learns a "pattern."
    That traits that you are teaching yourself with paintball is to "SHOOT TO KILL."

    Just pointing something out, not siding either way.

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • TOOLS1TOOLS1 Member Posts: 6,133
    edited November -1
    Shooter4 is right. At least untill you have handling a gun down as second nature. It is easyer to learn good habits then to break bad ones.
    TOOLS

    General TOOLS RRG

    Don't go blaming the beer. Hank Hill

    So much Ice, So much Beer. So little time. Shooter4

    I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill

    When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now that I am grown, I just wish I could act like a child and get away with it.
  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You should try airsoft. It uses realistic looking air-guns that shoot small plastic BB's. They have an indoor arena in my home town that simulates an urban environment. I've never tried it but it sounds like fun. I think the local LEO's are thinking about using something similar in their training exercises. Plus, I think that there is no harm in shooting somebody with a paintball, in fun, except for the stinging red marks it makes on your skin

    "The Tree of Liberty must be watered by the blood of tyrants."
  • maggiethecatmaggiethecat Member Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i agree with younggunz. any person responsible enough to shoot firearms is also sresponsible enough to know the difference between the two "guns" and the rules needed with each.

    SGT USMC
    SSGT USAF
    The greatest happiness is to see your enemy scattered before you, to see his village in ashes, and to gather to your bed his wives and daughters.-Genghis Khan 1226
  • intercessorintercessor Member Posts: 437
    edited November -1
    I think paintball would be a real hoot, and I think that I have the skills to be good at it. HOWEVER--- I have a real problem with fireing a very firearm-like toy at another person in an attempt to "pretend kill" that person. Most folks wouldn't have a problem makeing the transition from playing paintball to safely handling real firearms, but some would. We can all think of somebody we have met or know that falls into that catagory. When I was in the business of firearms sales, it always irked me when someone would come in and say "let me see your weapons", "or let me see your toys". It has to do with mindset and attitude. That said, I vote no paintball, with regret. Enjoy your games, keep your mindset in the right place, and be safe.
  • joey garzajoey garza Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote


    Ever drink pop/beer from a regular size bottle, then switch to a long neck, and find that you sometimes hit yourself in the mouth when going to take a drink?

    Yes but the other way,have a few long necks,switch to cans and pore it
    down my front.

    I decided not to play paint ball because it trains you to overshoot and lead your target.

    however I've got many hundered hours of doom and never pointed a gun at anyone.
  • goldslammergoldslammer Member Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see nothing wrong with playing paintball, it's just a modern way of playing "cowboys & indians", but gun safety still has to be learned and practiced at all times.
  • REBJrREBJr Member Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with shooter, obviously the man has the credentials to back up what he's saying. I do believe paintball conditions you in a way that you don't handle firearms. Just my vote -Ralph

    In the demonstable absence of evolutionary perfection, if some calamity is not to occur, we shall have to learn to live with ourselves as we are. Fast. -Tattersall
  • Stormtrooper 13Stormtrooper 13 Member Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think as long as you practice safty never forgetting it for an instance . Paintballs fine . It'll teach good shooting mechanics .
  • kingjoeykingjoey Member Posts: 8,636
    edited November -1
    One should be properly trained in both and be able to treat each seperately in their mind. Paintballing is a sport and isn't treated with life and death seriousness. Defensive shooting is a serious practice and should be treated as such, the splats are always red and they don't wash out easy which is a bit different than paintball[xx(]

    Love them Beavers
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    SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it is your thing,..then play it and don't confuse the two.

    personaly,.. I find thatpaintball stuff costs wayyy too much,...so I never got into it. I put my money in an actual firearm,..that won't be last years model,..next year. So,. mine will be worth money and the paintball stuff will be traded for a set of speakers or a $20 bill one day. That is not a dig at paintball either,...that is the result of me seeing how much the used paintball stuff is discarded for.

    But,...I don't think you have to choose one or the other. Being a firearms owner is a thing of respect and maturity,...if you don't have those,..it doesn't matter if you are a crack-head or a boyscout.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • spectre7spectre7 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Played paintball for a team here for a couple of years. Had a blast, and loved the sport. My interest in paintball was actually something I entertained before I was able to get into firearms. I would probably still play it, if it hadn't become so expensive, between range-time, balls, Co2/Nitrous, etc...

    I was pretty into it, but despite my interest in the game I do not think there is any connection in my mind or in my muscle-memory between my auto-mag and say; my glock. Two very different things that are very easily distinguished.

    Typos and profanity, oh my! http://www.funky-town.org
  • BurningDailyBurningDaily Member Posts: 271 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Younggunz: i play paintball as well. I love the game. I also know the difference between paintguns and REAL guns.

    I will always love paintball as it represents combat, and i like that sort of stuff.

    Keep up the paintball...where do you live? we should play. I will warn you...i wear a ghillie suit when i play, so its near impossible to spot me, much less shoot me. =)


    However, i would like to add, that i DO practice proper "gun ethics" or whatever you want to call it...I never point my gun at someone outside of the game. Hey guys--- doubt me now, but its good training for when China invades.
    -bd

    -How many times have I told you that whenever I hear the words "civil rights attorney", I reach for my glock? How many times have I told you that when I hear the words "civil rights attorney", I make sure my AR-15 is oiled?-

    ~Dr. Savage~
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My vote is with shooter. Beach
  • ruger270manruger270man Member Posts: 9,361 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    this topic is pointless.. if you're too stupid to confuse a paintball gun with a real gun, then you shouldn't be around either. And my brother plays paintball all the time, but you should call it a paintball MARKER, cuz gun gives the sport a militarized feel and its not good for the sport. Not that guns are bad[:D][:p]

    but yeah, paintball is just all in good fun.

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  • scrollworkscrollwork Member Posts: 227 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Paintball held in perspective is good times and fun.
  • Brth729Brth729 Member Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I myself have a Spyder TL Plus and a Spyder Shutter. Both of which I call markers because that's what they are. They're not guns. Several of the guys I work with have markers and play also. They in fact are the ones who got me started in it.
    It's very hard not to be able to distinguish between them and a real gun. No matter which I happen to be using at the time, I always practice safety. Whether it be on a paintball field with my barrel plug in the end, or in another location with a rifle or pistol. My point..I don't care which one I have with me, I treat them both the same.

    It's a dog-eat-dog world...and nine times out of ten I have on Milk-Bone underwear.
  • fragmentsfragments Member Posts: 407 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Video games have been blamed for everything, but I don't recall anyone ever blaming/confusing a real handgun for a paintball gun and shooting someone. Although I have never tried paintball, I did play cowboys and indians as a kid. I've never confused a cap gun with the real thing! If you feel a person isn't responsable enough to differentiate between a toy and the real thing, then maybe they shouldn't own either! Let the kids have their fun. You're only young once!!! If you do get rid of your paintball equipment, think of the money that you'd have for ammo etc.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Well......Having at one time been an NRA Instuctor in both Maine and New Hampshire,I feel compelled to say something.What I would say is basicly the same,look yoou hafta follow firearms safety ALL the time.That said I can see how paintball is fun and how it is like us in younger years playin cowboys and indians....But my dad would never(after the battle was over)let me wander and wave the gun,(toy that it was)all over the place,finger on the trigger,etc.Its a BAD habit to get into.I have friends that are My age that I will NOT EVER hunt with over just this .....takes a kimber out of a case,clip in,finger on trigger,waves it around explaining stuff to me.Nope,not happnin folks....the danger is obvious,the cause is not.This guy does hardcore paintball EVERY chance he gets.Bad habits are as hard to break as good ones....I agree the transition from paintball guns to real firearms,COULD be,and SHOULD be a smooth one.....In a PERFECT world,Its not,we are not,and should practice basic SAFETY all the time,I will say,WHEN NOT in battle......L.H.
  • drobsdrobs Member Posts: 22,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    younggunz,

    I've played in the past but I agree with shooter. Those paintball guns are a waste of $$. That top of the line paintball gun will never hold its value. Think of all the guns you could own if you didn't waste your time & money on that game. Then again I have the same opinion with sterio equipment.



    Regards,
    190191.gif
  • Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    Shooter4 has my vote.

    Muscle memory is an involuntary reaction which, through repetition, a specific skill set has been learned and ingrained. In this case we are talking about shooting. Whether you realize it (or will acknowledge) it or not, you are being conditioned to shoot a weapon in the paintball arena and many of those shooting habits WILL transfer over to your "real" shooting experinces.

    I attended a advanced close-quarters pistol course and they showed us a video of a State Trooper whose "dashcam" captured his death. How? Well, in the middle of the fire fight, the Trooper had the upper-hand on the CRIMINAL, but when he emptied his gun, instead of reloading and finishing the job, he BENT DOWN TO RECOVER HIS BRASS!!!!! Just as he had been trained to do at the range; the criminal recovered his bearing and finished the job for the Trooper[:(]. Again, high stress situation, MUSCLE MEMORY (through repetition and practice), takes over, whether you like it or not.

    Oh yeah.... just my .$02.

    NSDQ!

    "Nobody dislikes war more than warriors, but we value the causes of peace so highly that we will not duck a war in an effort to get a lasting peace." -General Daniel "Chappie" James
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    I believe to make a "blanket" judgement that it is not safe is unfair. It really depends on the person you are dealing worth. I agree that some will probably be unable to make the transition and will be dangerous but the opposite may be true also. If he has his head on his shoulder you should see younggunz transfering his gun safety skills (from real weapons) to the paintball field. Ideally he will become more concious of his weapon handling and it should be evident evn on the play field. Some observation should tell whether this is the case or not. The use of an observer during the paintball wars to point out handling mistakes and give advise would be benificial toward handling the real thing. The human mind/body is able to trained to handle more than one action at a time. Soldiers that train to use multiple weapons are able to switch from one to the other safely and effectively how is this different? Mindset is another factor. I think the average person knows the difference between when they are on a paintball field and when they are at the range. Generally if one is inteligent enought to realize there is a difference that difference will show in practice. I'm not saying shooter is wrong just that it's not right to make a such a blanket judgement. I'll give younguns the benifit of the doubt on this one.
  • cheezecheeze Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You'd have to be pretty unconscious to be at the range, lapse into a flashback of paintballing, and start shooting firearms at people. It's almost comical to try to comprehend that actually happening.

    You can run, but you'll just die tired.
  • familyguyfamilyguy Member Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I, too, am an NRA certified pistol instructor (oops, was, it lapsed, need to do the class again).
    quote:Muscle memory is an involuntary reaction which, through repetition, a specific skill set has been learned and ingrained.Yes, muscle memory becomes an integral part of shooting.

    SAFETY, however, should never be something you do on 'autopilot'. You should ALWAYS be conscious of what you are doing, and how you are doing it. Know your backstop doesn't mean that if it's the same backstop you used before you use it again without checking it!

    Anyone that classifies their gun handling practices (as opposed to the actual mechanics of shooting) as "automatic" needs to reevalute being a gun owner.

    Do both, obey the rules, enjoy.




    JJ the laser tag player AND firearms enthusiast gun nut
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I also see paintball as "cowboys and Indians" for boys that never grew up. I don't see why you would want to do it, but what is fun for me might look a crashing bore to you. I expect if you pay attention you can do both, but I got the impression that playing with real rifles was shooters idea not yours. If you just want to paint ball, just paintball.

    My heros have always killed cowboys.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cheeze
    You'd have to be pretty unconscious to be at the range, lapse into a flashback of paintballing, and start shooting firearms at people. It's almost comical to try to comprehend that actually happening.

    I see nothing comical about it,I was referring to the lax attitude,I mean if you r lax with a loaded paintball gun ,might you be lax with a real one as well?And would'nt it be MUCH easier to b lax with a paintball gun?We were not talking mass casualties,just an accident by a laspe in judgement on a safety issue.Admittedly most would'nt have this problem but who wants to roll the die and find out who can and cannot be trusted.....L.H.
  • SkeedaddySkeedaddy Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with you, the two are different; Shooting "real guns" takes a different "frame of mind". I still have watergun fights with the kids, and take the wife out to the gun range as often as I can....never have I got the two "confused". Use common sense--and always think of safty first, in both sports.
  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Paintball is a game. If you enjoy it, play it.

    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
  • cheezecheeze Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have you ever shot at a "silhouette" target? Have you ever practiced by taking aim at people on the TV, or a picture on your wall?

    People don't relax with paintball guns either. There are a stringent set of safety rules followed at paintball ranges.

    You can run, but you'll just die tired.
  • shooter4shooter4 Member Posts: 4,457
    edited November -1
    Lot a good responses, thanks folks.

    I think that bad habits can be learned playing with the paintball gun and carried over to the real guns.

    Things like keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot and always keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

    I believe that its much safer to not reinforce these bad habits.

    Its true that good habits learned from instructions on the real guns can be carried over to the paintball shooting, I just don't think the two go together for a young, new shooter.
  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    Sorry,I'm gonna change my vote after reading these posts. I think maybe it is better to err on the side of safety. Atleast until you get your real gun experience equal to or greater than your paintball time.

    Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
  • shooter4shooter4 Member Posts: 4,457
    edited November -1
    OK bigdaddy, but you were OK to come for beer even with your first vote [:D]
  • BurningDailyBurningDaily Member Posts: 271 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ruger270:

    Thanks you for putting that in such such simple terms. I agree with you 100%.

    Paintball is just recreation, its not a bunch of people who are training to kill each other in real life (though some may seem like it).
    -bd
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