In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Sandy Hook update................
jltrent
Member Posts: 9,337 ✭✭✭✭
Newtown gunman Adam Lanza fired 155 bullets in less than five minutes, prosecutor says. Lanza used a Bushmaster .223-caliber XM15-E2S rifle with a 30-round magazine to shoot the victims at the school, authorities have said. Police recovered nine 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster that Lanza took to the school. Three of the magazines had a full 30 rounds still in them.
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/28/17501282-newtown-gunman-adam-lanza-fired-155-bullets-in-less-than-five-minutes-prosecutor-says?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/28/17501282-newtown-gunman-adam-lanza-fired-155-bullets-in-less-than-five-minutes-prosecutor-says?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1
Comments
270
-155
115 left over
25 more than three mags
Among the other items seized by police:
Item #83 - Email re: GunBroker.com dated 10-12-11.
But what I got to know more about.... he had a loaded shotgun in the Honda GLOVE COMPARTMENT. I NEED A PHOTO OF THAT! Plus 30 rounds.
I have a tough time getting my Marlin 60 PD rifle into my Subaru center con[:o)]sole.
Math don't work out, I think
270
-155
115 left over
25 more than three mags
All the mags found were not empty. 3 were full, some were partially full. most likely the one found in the gun
Had he been limited to 10 round magazines, it would have taken 15+ to achieve 155 rounds.
In that he had 30 rounders, and if we assume 10 seconds for a magazine change-out, It took Lanza 4 minutes and 10 seconds to fire 155 rounds, or 1.6 seconds per round.
Had Lanza access to only 10 round magazines, I see the following:
1.6 seconds x 10 = 16 seconds for first magazine.
1.6 seconds x 10 = 16 seconds + 10 seconds for change out = 26 seconds for each additional 10 rounds.
Therefore, in 5 minutes, Lanza would have:
1. Emptied first 10 round magazine (284 seconds left)
2. Inserted and emptied 10 more magazines (24 seconds left)
3. Inserted the 12th magazine and fired off 8 rounds.
Total number of rounds fired, 30 round mags = 155.
Total number of rounds fired, 10 round mags = 118.
Obviously 10 seconds to change out a magazine is ridiculously long, but it gives us a round count that almost anyone with even a low level of proficiency can achieve.
So, the question becomes:
Is a 24% reduction in rounds fired sufficient grounds to ignore the 2nd and 10th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and insert the Federal Government into an area in which it has no authority other than the emotional tyranny of a perceived majority?
We need to continue to point out the 10th Amendment problem and also continue to point out to our elected representatives how little is actually being achieved by this idiocy.
Brad Steele
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Too old to live...too young to die...
Clearly they are saying it was the AR used in the murders, but the ammo and magazine count appears to present problems. He fired 154 rounds using 30 round mags? That requires at least 5 loaded mags. mention was made of 3 fully loaded mags recovered from somewhere, but where are the minimum 4 empty mags that should have been found at the scene? Did they simply forget to note them? It all still either sounds fishy or inept.
It says they recovered 9 mags, 3 of witch were full.
Wonder if they sell 35round shotgun clips on yahoo[?][?]
Have not been able to find them "ANYWHERE" [V]
What these materials show was that this kid, who was clearly mentally ill and/or aspergers, and basically was acknowledged by pretty much everyone to be a problemed child, was given access to guns by his MOTHER! WTH?
It's pretty clear that the majority of Americans, and I'll bet the majority of people here on GB, will agree that the issue isn't the gun, the magazine, the caliber, whether the gun is black or wood - it's keeping guns out of the hands of crazy f--ks like this Lanza kid.
I think you all are missing the big picture here. What the materials released today show isn't that crazy by itself; the number of rounds kept at home, NRA publications, etc.
What these materials show was that this kid, who was clearly mentally ill and/or aspergers, and basically was acknowledged by pretty much everyone to be a problemed child, was given access to guns by his MOTHER! WTH?
It's pretty clear that the majority of Americans, and I'll bet the majority of people here on GB, will agree that the issue isn't the gun, the magazine, the caliber, whether the gun is black or wood - it's keeping guns out of the hands of crazy f--ks like this Lanza kid.
She knew her kid was off his rocker she should have had a gun safe and only she should have known the combo.
The kid was also a satanist who HATED, HATED in the true all consuming way Christians and anything good in the world.
Another reason not to disarm is all the hatred out there by legions of teens growing up on Black Metal music that preaches this hate.
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
I think you all are missing the big picture here. What the materials released today show isn't that crazy by itself; the number of rounds kept at home, NRA publications, etc.
What these materials show was that this kid, who was clearly mentally ill and/or aspergers, and basically was acknowledged by pretty much everyone to be a problemed child, was given access to guns by his MOTHER! WTH?
It's pretty clear that the majority of Americans, and I'll bet the majority of people here on GB, will agree that the issue isn't the gun, the magazine, the caliber, whether the gun is black or wood - it's keeping guns out of the hands of crazy f--ks like this Lanza kid.
She knew her kid was off his rocker she should have had a gun safe and only she should have known the combo.
The kid was also a satanist who HATED, HATED in the true all consuming way Christians and anything good in the world.
Another reason not to disarm is all the hatred out there by legions of teens growing up on Black Metal music that preaches this hate.
Might want to curb the witch hunt (so to speak). Most all of this sort of music decries killing.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Waco Waltz
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
I think you all are missing the big picture here. What the materials released today show isn't that crazy by itself; the number of rounds kept at home, NRA publications, etc.
What these materials show was that this kid, who was clearly mentally ill and/or aspergers, and basically was acknowledged by pretty much everyone to be a problemed child, was given access to guns by his MOTHER! WTH?
It's pretty clear that the majority of Americans, and I'll bet the majority of people here on GB, will agree that the issue isn't the gun, the magazine, the caliber, whether the gun is black or wood - it's keeping guns out of the hands of crazy f--ks like this Lanza kid.
She knew her kid was off his rocker she should have had a gun safe and only she should have known the combo.
The kid was also a satanist who HATED, HATED in the true all consuming way Christians and anything good in the world.
Another reason not to disarm is all the hatred out there by legions of teens growing up on Black Metal music that preaches this hate.
Might want to curb the witch hunt (so to speak). Most all of this sort of music decries killing.
Not from what I have seen. Go on line and chat with some of the fans of that kinda metal.
You guys kind of amaze me.
Blaming the mother for the acts of her loony, murderous spawn?
Who says she gave her son "easy access" to her firearms leading up to the shooting?
THE MEDIA??
As I recall, she was shot 4 times, IN THE FACE!
Do either of you know what kind of beating and torture she might have endured leading up to her death, and POSSIBLY turning her firearms over to her son?
Or, is the fact that the grieving folk of Newtown and BO (who didnt even mention her among the victims in his photo op) hold her responsible, evidence enough for you that she was somehow to blame?
Jeez!
from Yahoo search engine today
Among the other items seized by police:
Item #83 - Email re: GunBroker.com dated 10-12-11.
As listed on search warrant dated 16 DEC 2012, pg 16
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/628326-newtown5.html
Wonder 'WHO' the eMail was with...
Prospective seller who denied a sale... Maybe ?
WacoWaltz and Jgreen,
You guys kind of amaze me.
Blaming the mother for the acts of her loony, murderous spawn?
Who says she gave her son "easy access" to her firearms leading up to the shooting?
THE MEDIA??
As I recall, she was shot 4 times, IN THE FACE!
Do either of you know what kind of beating and torture she might have endured leading up to her death, and POSSIBLY turning her firearms over to her son?
Or, is the fact that the grieving folk of Newtown and BO (who didnt even mention her among the victims in his photo op) hold her responsible, evidence enough for you that she was somehow to blame?
Jeez!
Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=595182
Many of us have suspected from the start that these weapons were actually the boy's and not the mom's. This little tidbit of evidence, though not conclusive, suggests that there is a good chance we were correct.
She is not to blame, though once she suspected her little boy was going off the deep end she probably could have been more proactive. The fact that she was the first victim in no way shields her from the discussion as to how things could have been done better.
She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons. We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza.
Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction. An expansion of a system that in no way would have had any discernible effect in this case.
Brad Steele
It didn't work.
quote:Originally posted by sxsnuf
WacoWaltz and Jgreen,
You guys kind of amaze me.
Blaming the mother for the acts of her loony, murderous spawn?
Who says she gave her son "easy access" to her firearms leading up to the shooting?
THE MEDIA??
As I recall, she was shot 4 times, IN THE FACE!
Do either of you know what kind of beating and torture she might have endured leading up to her death, and POSSIBLY turning her firearms over to her son?
Or, is the fact that the grieving folk of Newtown and BO (who didnt even mention her among the victims in his photo op) hold her responsible, evidence enough for you that she was somehow to blame?
Jeez!
Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=595182
Many of us have suspected from the start that these weapons were actually the boy's and not the mom's. This little tidbit of evidence, though not conclusive, suggests that there is a good chance we were correct.
She is not to blame, though once she suspected her little boy was going off the deep end she probably could have been more proactive. The fact that she was the first victim in no way shields her from the discussion as to how things could have been done better.
She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons. We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza.
Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction. An expansion of a system that in no way would have had any discernible effect in this case.
I reject the notion that she earns blame for buying her son weapons. Until there's evidence that she's a prophet by biblical definition, she was not capable of predicting what the guns would be used for.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
While your words are seemingly well reasoned, I cant for the life of me figure out what youre trying to say.
"Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'"
Just what the hell is a "C183 firearm"??
"She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons."
According to all Ive read, they were HER weapons.
"She is not to blame,"
"We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza."
"Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction."
You write about "emerging evidence" and "tidbits of evidence" suggesting that you were correct in your long held suspicions.
You write that she WAS NOT to blame, then that well never know HOW MUCH she is to blame, then that she is MUCH MORE to blame than the system.
Which is it??
Whatever your point, Ill tell you what I see here.
I see many of the posters using the same tactics of denial as the gun-grabbers:
Find something (or someone) to blame instead of laying the responsibility at the feet of the murderous scum who pulled the trigger.
The left blames the inanimate object which was used.
The GB members blame the dead gun owner.[V]
I think it's time...
I reject the notion that she earns blame for buying her son weapons. Until there's evidence that she's a prophet by biblical definition, she was not capable of predicting what the guns would be used for.
Sometimes, it doesn't take the gift of prophecy to recognize the signs of mental illness in those who are close to you.
There is a lack of information about what led up to the shooting and the shooter's motive -- perhaps this information is being withheld for the purpose of encouraging speculation and paranoia -- but if the shooter's mother knowingly provided firearms to someone who is mentally unstable, she is not blameless. (Of course, she has already paid the ultimate price for her lapse in judgment.)
Don McManus,
While your words are seemingly well reasoned, I cant for the life of me figure out what youre trying to say.
"Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'"
Just what the hell is a "C183 firearm"??
"She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons."
According to all Ive read, they were HER weapons.
"She is not to blame,"
"We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza."
"Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction."
You write about "emerging evidence" and "tidbits of evidence" suggesting that you were correct in your long held suspicions.
You write that she WAS NOT to blame, then that well never know HOW MUCH she is to blame, then that she is MUCH MORE to blame than the system.
Which is it??
Whatever your point, Ill tell you what I see here.
I see many of the posters using the same tactics of denial as the gun-grabbers:
Find something (or someone) to blame instead of laying the responsibility at the feet of the murderous scum who pulled the trigger.
The left blames the inanimate object which was used.
The GB members blame the dead gun owner.[V]
I guess I was guilty of rambling a bit.
1. I don't know what a C183 is, the investigators seem to think it is a firearm.
2. Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms, so legally (I guess) they were hers. Everything about this case, however, suggests that the firearms actually belonged to and were in the possession of the boy. The Holiday Card suggests that this is a strong possibility.
3. Nancy Lanza is not to blame for the killings, though she was, apparently, taking steps to have her son evaluated and supposedly believed he was a risk. As I noted, she probably could have been more proactive in getting the firearms out of her son's hands. She may have been afraid of him or simply was not aware of what he was capable of doing. I don't know, and don't think it really matters.
4. The statement that she is more to blame than the system was only a reference to the simple fact that people are blaming the system and are going to burden all of us in their efforts to fix it. It was a throw-away comparison to point out that blaming the system in an effort to increase control over individuals is misplaced, as the system did not fail.
Brad Steele
BTW: Ive done a short internet search, and as far as I can discern, NOBODY knows what a "C183 firearm is.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sxsnuf
WacoWaltz and Jgreen,
You guys kind of amaze me.
Blaming the mother for the acts of her loony, murderous spawn?
Who says she gave her son "easy access" to her firearms leading up to the shooting?
THE MEDIA??
As I recall, she was shot 4 times, IN THE FACE!
Do either of you know what kind of beating and torture she might have endured leading up to her death, and POSSIBLY turning her firearms over to her son?
Or, is the fact that the grieving folk of Newtown and BO (who didnt even mention her among the victims in his photo op) hold her responsible, evidence enough for you that she was somehow to blame?
Jeez!
Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=595182
Many of us have suspected from the start that these weapons were actually the boy's and not the mom's. This little tidbit of evidence, though not conclusive, suggests that there is a good chance we were correct.
She is not to blame, though once she suspected her little boy was going off the deep end she probably could have been more proactive. The fact that she was the first victim in no way shields her from the discussion as to how things could have been done better.
She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons. We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza.
Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction. An expansion of a system that in no way would have had any discernible effect in this case.
I reject the notion that she earns blame for buying her son weapons. Until there's evidence that she's a prophet by biblical definition, she was not capable of predicting what the guns would be used for.
uh... what? He went on this spree because she was trying to have him commited. Why would she want him committed if he was perfectly OK? So why give someone guns who you think should be committed?
Ive done a short internet search, and as far as I can discern, NOBODY knows what a "C183 firearm is.
C183 may refer to some piece of evidence (labeled/numbered) as opposed to a make or model of firearm.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sxsnuf
WacoWaltz and Jgreen,
You guys kind of amaze me.
Blaming the mother for the acts of her loony, murderous spawn?
Who says she gave her son "easy access" to her firearms leading up to the shooting?
THE MEDIA??
As I recall, she was shot 4 times, IN THE FACE!
Do either of you know what kind of beating and torture she might have endured leading up to her death, and POSSIBLY turning her firearms over to her son?
Or, is the fact that the grieving folk of Newtown and BO (who didnt even mention her among the victims in his photo op) hold her responsible, evidence enough for you that she was somehow to blame?
Jeez!
Evidence is emerging that Nancy Lanza purchased the firearms for her little boy.
At least in his room was found a:
'Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm.'
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=595182
Many of us have suspected from the start that these weapons were actually the boy's and not the mom's. This little tidbit of evidence, though not conclusive, suggests that there is a good chance we were correct.
She is not to blame, though once she suspected her little boy was going off the deep end she probably could have been more proactive. The fact that she was the first victim in no way shields her from the discussion as to how things could have been done better.
She didn't pull the trigger. In fact she may have been killed trying to stop him from leaving the house with his weapons. We will never know for certain how much (if any) blame should be assigned to Nancy Lanza.
Frankly, she seems much more to blame than 'the system' that is now under attack from those who are use this mess in an effort to create a government accessible record of every firearm transaction. An expansion of a system that in no way would have had any discernible effect in this case.
I reject the notion that she earns blame for buying her son weapons. Until there's evidence that she's a prophet by biblical definition, she was not capable of predicting what the guns would be used for.
uh... what? He went on this spree because she was trying to have him commited. Why would she want him committed if he was perfectly OK? So why give someone guns who you think should be committed?
Are you suggesting she bought them that same day? Are you mad?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
C183
CZ 83 pistol
I'm betting on a typo.
C183
CZ 83 pistol
Was any of that ammo found? (I didn't see any "380" or "32" on the list that was posted earlier.)
quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
I'm betting on a typo.
C183
CZ 83 pistol
Was any of that ammo found? (I didn't see any "380" or "32" on the list that was posted earlier.)
Wasn't that the one the uncashed check was for?
In the memo space.
Wasn't that the one the uncashed check was for?
In the memo space.
Yeah, that's where "C183" comes from. I was just wondering if they found any ammo that could have been used in a CZ 83 pistol.
quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
Wasn't that the one the uncashed check was for?
In the memo space.
Yeah, that's where "C183" comes from. I was just wondering if they found any ammo that could have been used in a CZ 83 pistol.
Not that I saw, but he hadn't cashed the check to buy the pistol yet, so likely would not have shells yet either.
Just my guess on the typo, or somebody who read the check memo and didn't understand what was written.
"Sometimes, it doesn't take the gift of prophecy to recognize the signs of mental illness in those who are close to you."
Mental illness does not mean a propensity for violence.
I once had occasion to sit and watch while a 7 year old girl played 3 different mental health "professionals" like fiddles.
How much easier to be duped by one you love and want to believe the best of?
Mental illness does not mean a propensity for violence.
In this case it did. (After many of these shootings, people who knew the shooter come forward to say that they knew that something was not right. It will be interesting to hear more about the background of this case.)
quote:Originally posted by sxsnuf
How much easier to be duped by one you love and want to believe the best of?
Willful blindness aside, I think it is a lot harder to fool someone that knows you very well and spends a lot of time with you. People don't always want to believe or admit that they notice signs of trouble, but that doesn't mean that they don't see those signs.