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Ten Commandments ...
GreenLantern
Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
...monument moved.
Bet that's gotta be a bitter pill for some of you to swallow! [}:)]
________________
MONTGOMERY, Alabama (CNN) -- Workers relocated the Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of Alabama's state judicial building Wednesday morning as supporters of suspended Chief Justice Roy Moore vowed to continue fighting its removal.
About 10 a.m. EDT, workers rolled the monument, on a wooden frame, out of the rotunda and into another part of the building.
Outside, more than 100 supporters of Moore, the judge who had the slab placed in the building in 2001, sang hymns, prayed and lay face-down in what they called a show of repentance.
Supporters threatened to boycott the company that moved the monument.
"I think they're going to be sorry they cooperated with this act," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, one of the protest organizers.
Another organizer, Christian Defense Coalition director Pat Mahoney, said supporters were "disappointed, but not discouraged."
"We don't view this as a defeat at all," Mahoney said. "We're still calling people to come to Montgomery to take a look at where the Ten Commandments once stood."
In a statement, Moore said: "It is a sad day in our country when the moral foundation of our laws and the acknowledgment of God has to be hidden from public view to appease a federal judge."
Moore's case has become a magnet for religious conservatives around the country. Organizers say protesters have arrived in Montgomery from as far away as Alaska.
"I believe that this is going to be a ripple effect across our nation -- at least that's my hope," said Phillip Nunn, who brought his family to Montgomery from Georgetown, Kentucky. "Americans will start realizing that if we don't speak up and if we don't start going to the voting booth, then we're going to have more of this. But if we take a stand, we can make a difference."
Judge's case
Moore argues that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of the U.S. legal system and that forbidding the acknowledgment of the Judeo-Christian God violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion.
But U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson ruled the monument was a violation of the First Amendment's prohibition of government establishment of religion and ordered it removed by midnight August 20.
The state Judicial Inquiry Commission suspended Moore last week after he refused to obey that order and charged him with six ethics violations for disobeying Thompson's order He has 30 days to respond to that complaint. Alabama's Court of the Judiciary could punish Moore or remove him from the bench.
Moore's colleagues on the state Supreme Court unanimously countermanded the chief justice and ordered the monument removed.
A 3 p.m. hearing in a federal court in Mobile on the issue has been canceled, the state attorney general's office announced. Moore's supporters, led by the Washington-based Christian Defense Coalition, had filed suit in Mobile on Monday to block the monument's removal.
Moore "made it very easy," said civil rights lawyer Morris Dees, whose Southern Poverty Law Center was one of the plaintiffs that sought the marker's removal.
"He said that he placed this monument here to acknowledge the sovereignty of God over the affairs of men, and that's pretty much it," Dees said.
King comparison
Schenck said the building's manager has told them the monument will be moved to a back hall of the building, out of public view. He called the removal "a morally cowardly act."
"I can only believe it will be temporary, because otherwise they would permanently remove it from the premises," Schenck said. "They're not going to that extent. I think they have a feeling what might happen in the long run."
Moore was a circuit judge in Etowah County, northeast of Birmingham, in the late 1990s when he fought a lawsuit seeking to remove a wooden plaque depicting the commandments from his courtroom. The legal battle propelled him to statewide office in 2000, when the Republican jurist was elected chief justice after campaigning as the "Ten Commandments Judge."
Supporters compared his stand to that of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., arguing that the civil rights movement never would have happened without the defiance of unjust laws.
Dees called that "a bogus comparison." The more appropriate parallel, he said, would be to civil rights-era Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who resisted federal court orders requiring Alabama institutions to accept African-Americans "as a demagogue for the purpose of advancing his political career."
Bet that's gotta be a bitter pill for some of you to swallow! [}:)]
________________
MONTGOMERY, Alabama (CNN) -- Workers relocated the Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of Alabama's state judicial building Wednesday morning as supporters of suspended Chief Justice Roy Moore vowed to continue fighting its removal.
About 10 a.m. EDT, workers rolled the monument, on a wooden frame, out of the rotunda and into another part of the building.
Outside, more than 100 supporters of Moore, the judge who had the slab placed in the building in 2001, sang hymns, prayed and lay face-down in what they called a show of repentance.
Supporters threatened to boycott the company that moved the monument.
"I think they're going to be sorry they cooperated with this act," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, one of the protest organizers.
Another organizer, Christian Defense Coalition director Pat Mahoney, said supporters were "disappointed, but not discouraged."
"We don't view this as a defeat at all," Mahoney said. "We're still calling people to come to Montgomery to take a look at where the Ten Commandments once stood."
In a statement, Moore said: "It is a sad day in our country when the moral foundation of our laws and the acknowledgment of God has to be hidden from public view to appease a federal judge."
Moore's case has become a magnet for religious conservatives around the country. Organizers say protesters have arrived in Montgomery from as far away as Alaska.
"I believe that this is going to be a ripple effect across our nation -- at least that's my hope," said Phillip Nunn, who brought his family to Montgomery from Georgetown, Kentucky. "Americans will start realizing that if we don't speak up and if we don't start going to the voting booth, then we're going to have more of this. But if we take a stand, we can make a difference."
Judge's case
Moore argues that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of the U.S. legal system and that forbidding the acknowledgment of the Judeo-Christian God violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion.
But U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson ruled the monument was a violation of the First Amendment's prohibition of government establishment of religion and ordered it removed by midnight August 20.
The state Judicial Inquiry Commission suspended Moore last week after he refused to obey that order and charged him with six ethics violations for disobeying Thompson's order He has 30 days to respond to that complaint. Alabama's Court of the Judiciary could punish Moore or remove him from the bench.
Moore's colleagues on the state Supreme Court unanimously countermanded the chief justice and ordered the monument removed.
A 3 p.m. hearing in a federal court in Mobile on the issue has been canceled, the state attorney general's office announced. Moore's supporters, led by the Washington-based Christian Defense Coalition, had filed suit in Mobile on Monday to block the monument's removal.
Moore "made it very easy," said civil rights lawyer Morris Dees, whose Southern Poverty Law Center was one of the plaintiffs that sought the marker's removal.
"He said that he placed this monument here to acknowledge the sovereignty of God over the affairs of men, and that's pretty much it," Dees said.
King comparison
Schenck said the building's manager has told them the monument will be moved to a back hall of the building, out of public view. He called the removal "a morally cowardly act."
"I can only believe it will be temporary, because otherwise they would permanently remove it from the premises," Schenck said. "They're not going to that extent. I think they have a feeling what might happen in the long run."
Moore was a circuit judge in Etowah County, northeast of Birmingham, in the late 1990s when he fought a lawsuit seeking to remove a wooden plaque depicting the commandments from his courtroom. The legal battle propelled him to statewide office in 2000, when the Republican jurist was elected chief justice after campaigning as the "Ten Commandments Judge."
Supporters compared his stand to that of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., arguing that the civil rights movement never would have happened without the defiance of unjust laws.
Dees called that "a bogus comparison." The more appropriate parallel, he said, would be to civil rights-era Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who resisted federal court orders requiring Alabama institutions to accept African-Americans "as a demagogue for the purpose of advancing his political career."
Comments
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN
Clouder..
"Instant karma gonna get you,gonna knock you right in the head,better get yourself together,pretty soon you're gonna be dead" John Lennon
as the United States Supreme Court. They dictate.....we listen.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
Didn't he arrange for, fund, and install fund the monument in the first place? If so, then he's being a child stamping his feet because the authorities told him he can't keep his toy in his room. He should grow up and resign the office he holds.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
Resident Pyrrhonist
Didn't he arrange for, fund, and install fund the monument in the first place? If so, then he's being a child stamping his feet because the authorities told him he can't keep his toy in his room. He should grow up and resign the office he holds.
Interesting how he's make a stand to keep it there yet he moved it there two years ago in the middle of the night!
My heros have always killed cowboys.
Brother of OUR LEADER sent a letter to the judge hearing the case asking to reconsider the issue (after 8 years!!!!!). Judge said no, he will follow the law. Jeb Bush said he received over 27,000 emails asking him to do something.
Guess Jeb is like his brother--don't understand the Constitution of the US either. [;)]
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
Resident Pyrrhonist
While he may really believe the rock is fitting for the courthouse, King Hammarabi of Babylon actually had the first codified civil laws a few hundred years BC. Before the barbs start, I live in Alabama and sadly, the majority of otherwise educated people support this demigod. He has his sights set on higher office for sure and anyone who doubts that is a fool.
Since man is paying him, I really wish he would do mans work. We got plenty of preachers down here to do God's work.
Fellows, the Constitution consist of a lot more than the 2nd Admendment and not only does it give us freedom to, it also gives us freedom FROM.
He That Pays The Piper Calls The Tune.
I cannot believe that anyone that has read the Constitution would give Moore credit for anything except being the next Elmer Gantry.
.
I have read the constitution. What exactly is it that Moore did that you think is unconstitutional? Perhaps you might want to read what the constitution says, and not rely on what someone tells you it says.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
Before the barbs start, I live in Alabama and sadly, the majority of otherwise educated people support this demigod.
And if the majority support the ten commandment monument, then it should stay-at least that is what the constitution says.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Now to go into his courtroom and see his superstitious stuff makes me wonder about his judgement. Is this judge rational? Does he ignore evidence and believe in things not in evidence (Does he believe Jonah lived in a big fish or the sun stopped moving? Or maybe Lot's wife turned to salt?)
I realize some people cannot make the jump and can only focus on a very narrow existence. As a Government functionary, it's not his job to minister religion, only mete out justice according to mans law. If I want his brand of religion, I can go to church or read a bible. He has a captive audience in court.
Besides, he can put the rock in his front yard, private property, or some church where the masses can come view it ANYTIME THEY WANT.
He That Pays The Piper Calls The Tune.
timbroman@aol.com
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
Before the barbs start, I live in Alabama and sadly, the majority of otherwise educated people support this demigod.
And if the majority support the ten commandment monument, then it should stay-at least that is what the constitution says.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
Actually, it doesn't say that at all. The majority use to believe the sun circled the Earth. The majority elected Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Adolf Hitler. The majority smoked cigarettes, and the majority on and on. The majority is not always right.
We are a Republic. The Constitution protects all American Citizens equally, right? Religious zealots often pay no heed to what's right. Would YOU bomb abortion clinics? (This must be that "Character and Morality" Timbroman speaks of).
If everyone wants to see a good movie this weekend, go to Blockbuster and check out "Inherit the Wind" with Spencer Tracy, Gene Kelly, Claude Akins, Dick York and some others.
I think the world has more than enough God Squad of all shades, Christian, Jew, Moslem, etc ad nausem. We have eternity to worry about it. Why not live in the present and everybody worship there own god without forcing it on your neighbor's *.
He That Pays The Piper Calls The Tune.
For about 200 years nothing was ever said about prayer in schools, religious artifacts in public, God in the pledge, etc. Now all of sudden they have become a problem to some when they weren't a problem before.
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
its because of all the queers, they always get their way
________________
Heston for prez.
I have read and re-read it and to me this is a clear case of a federal judge misinterpreting the First Amendment of the US Constitution in order to be politically correct. quote:Article [I.]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Pay close attention to the wording of this Article. No law was passed respecting an establishment of religion.
If you are going to cite the 14th Amendment, you had better read it closely and relate it correctly.
quote:Article XIV.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law, which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Again, no law was passed that abridged the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.
Some of you make the argument that Justice Moore should have blindly follow the orders of a federal judge that could not and would not cite any precedent for his ruling. For those of you that believe he was in the wrong for not obeying this order I am truly amazed at your ignorance. As I recall this is the same reasoning / arguments / excuses used by the Nazis during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials for their actions. quote:I was just following orders. Wake up people! We have seen attacks on the second amendment, and now we are seeing attacks on the first amendment.
Boomer[V]
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
Well Saizo, let's start with "We the people" and "insure domestic tranquility"
Extracting A few words from the constitution does not a constitution make.
Let me get this straight. "we the people", means that you can not place the ten commandments in a state building. Or is it "insure domestic tranquility" that says you cant place the ten commandments in a state court house? Boy thats one of the greatest examples of constitutional deconstructionism that I have seen. Extract a couple of words, completely out of context, and affix any meaning you wish to those words-even if the "new meaning" is anti constitutional, and stomps out what the constitution actually says in the process.
THe constitution is not an "idea", or "philosophy"-it is a document with a specific text that spells out the powers of the federal government, and in a very few cases, the powers of the states.
Once again, read it for yourself, and stop relying on what other people say it says- in the process, you might realize that it is not Moore, but the federal government that behaved unconstitutionally in this whole ordeal.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
How does displaying a universally recognized historical document of social order equate to the state establishing or endorsing a religion or the restriction of a citizen's free exercise of a religion?
I have been skimming through my US Constitution booklet and I cannot find anywhere where it says "separation of church and state". Could the higher more educated minds on the board tell me where this located in our constitution?
Also would it not have been cheaper to put some duct tape across any reference to God on the monument rather than moving it to a back room? They removed God from the Pledge so why not from the public display of this historical document if it offends a few?
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>
quote:Originally posted by salzo
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
Before the barbs start, I live in Alabama and sadly, the majority of otherwise educated people support this demigod.
And if the majority support the ten commandment monument, then it should stay-at least that is what the constitution says.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
Actually, it doesn't say that at all.
The majority is not always right.
Yes it does say that. You must read the constitution in order to know what it says. May I suggest that you start with article one, which explains the legislative power of the federal government. REALLY pay attention to article one section 8. Then read the tenth amendment of the constitution.
Whether or not the majority "is not always right" does not change the fact that the majority, or better yet "majorities", have the constitutional authority to decide how things will be in their respective states, with few restrictions(at least that is what the CONSTITUTION says).
"THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF OUR CONSTITUTION ENJOINS THAT THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY SHALL PREVAIL."
-George Washington
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
Resident Pyrrhonist
My idea what judges should do, which I think they do not do enough of, is too look at what the intent of the founding forefathers. I think if the judges look at the historical statements of the forefathers and historical culture(What were the values of the early americans and how did they live their lives during the time the constitution was written taking in consideration whether their values are for the good of our society), they would allow the Ten Commandments to stay.
A lot (not all) of the judicial decisions we are seeing these days are the result of the Clinton administration's appointees of judges.
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Measure twice, cut once.
Empty the clip!
I agree with you for what it's worth. Like I said;
DICTATORSHIP = US Supreme Court
The majority of the decisions I've seen them make within the last 20 years seem to lean more toward paganism.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
to the militia (now the National Guard). Shades of George Orwell!!!
4 legs good, 2 legs baaaaadddd!!!
What many of you christians who are bemoaning the state of religion in todays society just don't seem to grasp (or don't want to, IMO religion <> tolerance) is that the constitution wasn't written to remove god, but to avoid endorsement of one specific religion by the government.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/26/findlaw.analysis.sebok.commandments/index.html
quote:Originally posted by BlackieBooger
For about 200 years nothing was ever said about prayer in schools, religious artifacts in public, God in the pledge, etc. Now all of sudden they have become a problem to some when they weren't a problem before.
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
its because of all the queers, they always get their way
________________
Heston for prez.
I knew someone would pull this into it. [:D]
Regards,
Where is it quoted in ours? That phrase came years after the constitution was written based on some judicial decision. Tell a lie long enough and people will begin to believe it.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
... I think if the founding fathers wanted to make religion such a significant aspect or corner stone of society the constitution would look far more like a religious text than what it does today.
The problem here, is the typical exercise of rather than looking to what the constitution says, one instead tries to divine what the founders "thought" or intended. The problem with such exercises, is one looks to find documentation to support their position. One can easily find documentation from the founders that would be supportive of religion, or against religion. Often, the supporting documentation is taken out of context, again, so as not to arrive at what the fathers wanted, but to support the researchers position. This is a hard pill for some to swallow, but it does not matter what Jeffersons feelings were with respect to religion, or Madison, or Adams, or Washington, or Mason, or any of the 100s if not thousands of "founders" of the constitution. What matters is what the constitution says- And the constitution says, that CONGRESS will make no law establishing religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE of religion. Bottom line, the amendment prohibits congress from getting into the business of religion, and leaves the business of religion to the people, and/or the states.
The state of Alabama has every right to put whatever they want into their courthouses-AND THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT CONGRESS CANNOT PROHIBIT THAT RIGHT. Granted, unlike te first 150 years of this country,when CONGRESS was the legislation branch, today the Judiciary legislates-and if we are to worry about the intent of the "founders", we should be concerned whenever the courts create laws, which is the responsibility of the people, via the legislature. Does anyone really believe that the founders intended that CONGRESS shall make no religious laws, but the courts were free to make laws that prohibted religion? The founders created a system, where the legislature "legislates" and the judiciary "adjudicates"-they did not create the present system where the judiciary legislates-in fact, that is unconstitutional. Worried about the founders intent-they would be rolling in their graves if they saw how the judiciary usurps the authorities and powers of the people, via judicial activism/legislation.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume
These fact cannot be disputed.
The bottom line is people left England to ESCAPE religion and come here to practice their own.
There is measurable scientific proof for evolution. Where is the proof that the planet, the sun, the universe was created in seven (7) days?
In 2000 years, people will be amazed at what certain segments of humans worshiped much as we look at the ancient Egyptians and their sun god Ra today.
More people have been killed in the name of god in recorded history than any other reason. Not for land, not for food, not for women, and sure not for money.
There may well be an afterlife. I believe it is, but there are way more roads to it than what the Christian religion tells us. Everyone must find their own road and the "You are your brothers keeper" crap is just that.
Maybe this is why the Romans fed Christians to the lions, they harp on and on. Let it go folks, it don't put a roof over your head or food in your belly. It don't clothe your family and it sure as hell don't pay your bills. Sometimes I wish all the idiots (whatever religion) that are so intent on the afterlife in this life would just go ahead an depart. It does get old.
End of Story.....
He That Pays The Piper Calls The Tune.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
I feel that it is just one more man in control telling me im not
I dont tell any one to make the same decisions as I do but I see that other fractions get to have their say and I am increasingly being told that I dont get to say...How will I ever teach my child that people are under God or it is acceptable to have honor for parents and adults. what should I tell her about laws and why its ok to get rid of them if you want to make up your own
what will my daughter tell her grand children on a picnic at the town park, or at the court house square, What was here granny? uh I cant remember sweety....maybe it was a drinking fountain they out lawed those when too many people got sick from that bad water.
well what was that thing you said I had to do to day? mind, what mind? I have a mind of my own and I dont have to listen to any pile of crap you say....Granny get lost we want to ride bikes on the side walk..and paint on the building....
tool babe
Master mess sargent RRG
Oh my God! is the beginning of a prayer, not a one liner!
We come into this life with nothing, everything after this is our treasure
Jacqueline
www.gratuitouslylongdomainname.com
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants and the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN
Then, kill them all and remove the scum from the face of the earth!!!!!
We will then have a peaceful world, under the kingdom of heaven, exactly as it was when this Great Nation was founded. (Except for those ungodly natives that we had to convert to our beliefs.)
We will then put GOD IS WITH US on our military belt buckles, put GOD on our currency, put GOD into a pledge of conformance to our principles, and place great monuments to GOD in our public places, and force everyone to go to church every Sabbath--under pain of torture, of course. We will have our sacred writings rewritten to proclaim the glory of our GOD and our GODLY nation and we will find that peace reigns throughout the world and our deliverer shall come and the lambs will lie down with the lions (provided lions still exist in nature). Geesh. [:o)]
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
Resident Pyrrhonist
Well done my friend. I agree with you whole heartedly.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN