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New Law = Jail Time 4 U & Your Family?
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
House Passes Extreme Penalties For Some Who Use Guns In Self-Defense
-- Bill could also make your hunting party a "criminal street gang"
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
Let's assume that you and your family are on your way home from
church. You have a gun in the glove compartment that is there for
self-protection.
After driving within 1,000 feet of a school (which is almost
unavoidable), you stop by the grocery store to pick up a few items
for lunch.
As you are exiting your car, you are approached by a gang of
teenagers, armed with long screwdrivers and wrenches. Realizing that
you are about to be mugged, you brandish your firearm in order to
scare them off -- although this act on your part is a violation of
state law which requires that you first retreat, rather than defend
yourself.
Congratulations. Under legislation that recently passed the House,
all the members of your family are now subject to a MANDATORY MINIMUM
sentence of ten years in prison -- and up to life imprisonment.
The judge would have NO DISCRETION to release you before the end of
the ten-year period -- but an anti-gun judge could sentence you and
your family to LIFE IMPRISONMENT.
Sound ridiculous? Welcome to the new "tough-on-crime" House of
Representatives.
It's not as though Republicans like House Judiciary Committee
Chairman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) have no experience with the
"unintended" broad consequences of anti-gun laws.
Remember the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act
(RICO)? That bill was passed with the ostensible purpose of going
after the Mafia.
But it was poorly drafted. At its core, a person or business only
had to commit two of a broad list of sometimes-fairly-innocuous
crimes in order to be subject to stiff prison sentences. As a
result, lawsuits and criminal prosecutions soon sprouted against
legitimate banks and businesses and pro-life protestors.
Never capable of learning from its mistakes, Congress is about to go
after gun owners in the same way.
This new bill -- touted as anti-gang legislation -- is numbered H.R.
1279 in the House, where it passed by a 279-144 margin on May 11.
Twenty Republicans -- including pro-gun stalwarts like John
Hostettler (R-IN), Ron Paul (R-TX), and Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD) --
voted against it. It now goes to the Senate, where its counterpart
(S. 155) is sponsored by anti-gun zealot Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and
Orrin Hatch (R-UT).
Similar to RICO, these two bills, at the core, would define "criminal
street gangs" to be formal OR INFORMAL groups of three or more
individuals who commit two or more of a long list of "predicate"
crimes.
What are these predicate crimes, of which two or more could get you
thrown into the slammer for the rest of your life? Check these out:
* Violation of the Kohl 1,000-foot "gun-free-school-zone" law would
be a predicate crime in the House bill.
* Having a gun in violation of the Lautenberg amendment -- because
you spanked your kid or spat on your husband -- would be a predicate
in both the House and Senate versions.
* Accidentally shooting a doe instead of a buck (or shooting the
wrong kind of duck) would be a "crime of violence" (under the 18
U.S.C. 16 definition) and could therefore be a "predicate" crime if
some of the worst provisions from both bills end up in the final
version that goes to the President.
And, as mentioned above, your family's trip past the school -- as
you're driving home from church -- could send all of you to jail if
you use your gun in self-defense, rather than first retreating as
required in some states.
This is because:
* A "criminal street gang" exists as soon as this
"informal" group
of 3 or more individuals (your family) commits "2 or more gang
crimes... in relation to the group" if one of the crimes is a
"crime
of violence."
* Violation of the Kohl "gun-free-school-zone" amendment (18 U.S.C.
922(q)) is a "gang crime."
* The threat to use a firearm against the muggers is both a gang
crime and a crime of violence because it involves a "threat" of
"force" against a person.
The bills have other anti-gun provisions, as well:
1. Mandatory Prison Sentences For Gun Owners
The "street gang" provisions in the bill (as mentioned above) could
send you and your family to jail for 10 years-to-life if you defend
them with a gun under certain conditions.
But even apart from those RICO-style provisions in the bill, there is
other language in the bill that could send you to jail for twenty
years MINIMUM if you use a gun in self-defense... even without your
family being nearby.
Federal law prohibits the mere possession of a firearm during and in
relation to a crime of violence. The term "crime of violence"
clearly includes brandishing or even opening your coat to display a
firearm to defend yourself against a mugger -- without retreating --
in states that require retreat. Hence, a concealed carry permit
holder who opens his suit jacket and displays a firearm to a
potential mugger in these states is liable under this section because
"crime of violence" means the threatened use of force against
person
or property.
Section 114 of H.R. 1279 would increase the MINIMUM penalty for
shooting the mugger (i.e., a Bernie Goetz-type offense) to TWENTY
years in prison.
2. Expanding The Lautenberg Gun Ban
Section 109 of the House bill -- and its counterpart on the Senate
version -- makes it more likely that a person will NOT get bail if
they possessed a firearm after committing a "Lautenberg
misdemeanor."
Again, a person could be held to commit such a misdemeanor if the
person spanked their kid or spat on their spouse. So for having
committed this small infraction (and for owning a gun) a person faces
a higher probability of being held in jail until trial.
ACTION: Contact your United States senators. Ask them to oppose
anti-gun so-called "gang" legislation.
You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators a
pre-written e-mail message.
Pre-written letter
Dear Senator:
H.R. 1279 and its counterpart, S. 155, are supposedly "anti-gang"
measures. But they are so poorly drafted that they could lead to
lifetime prison sentences for fathers who protect their families from
muggers.
Under H.R. 1279, a family which drives within 1,000 feet of a school
(which is almost unavoidable) with a gun in the glove compartment
could be a criminal gang if the father or mother brandished the gun
to scare off a mugger. All members of the family could be subject to
a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence of ten years in prison -- and up to life
imprisonment, at the discretion of the court.
The Senate bill is only slightly better.
Please oppose these anti-gun abominations.
Sincerely,
****************************
-- Bill could also make your hunting party a "criminal street gang"
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
Let's assume that you and your family are on your way home from
church. You have a gun in the glove compartment that is there for
self-protection.
After driving within 1,000 feet of a school (which is almost
unavoidable), you stop by the grocery store to pick up a few items
for lunch.
As you are exiting your car, you are approached by a gang of
teenagers, armed with long screwdrivers and wrenches. Realizing that
you are about to be mugged, you brandish your firearm in order to
scare them off -- although this act on your part is a violation of
state law which requires that you first retreat, rather than defend
yourself.
Congratulations. Under legislation that recently passed the House,
all the members of your family are now subject to a MANDATORY MINIMUM
sentence of ten years in prison -- and up to life imprisonment.
The judge would have NO DISCRETION to release you before the end of
the ten-year period -- but an anti-gun judge could sentence you and
your family to LIFE IMPRISONMENT.
Sound ridiculous? Welcome to the new "tough-on-crime" House of
Representatives.
It's not as though Republicans like House Judiciary Committee
Chairman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) have no experience with the
"unintended" broad consequences of anti-gun laws.
Remember the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act
(RICO)? That bill was passed with the ostensible purpose of going
after the Mafia.
But it was poorly drafted. At its core, a person or business only
had to commit two of a broad list of sometimes-fairly-innocuous
crimes in order to be subject to stiff prison sentences. As a
result, lawsuits and criminal prosecutions soon sprouted against
legitimate banks and businesses and pro-life protestors.
Never capable of learning from its mistakes, Congress is about to go
after gun owners in the same way.
This new bill -- touted as anti-gang legislation -- is numbered H.R.
1279 in the House, where it passed by a 279-144 margin on May 11.
Twenty Republicans -- including pro-gun stalwarts like John
Hostettler (R-IN), Ron Paul (R-TX), and Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD) --
voted against it. It now goes to the Senate, where its counterpart
(S. 155) is sponsored by anti-gun zealot Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and
Orrin Hatch (R-UT).
Similar to RICO, these two bills, at the core, would define "criminal
street gangs" to be formal OR INFORMAL groups of three or more
individuals who commit two or more of a long list of "predicate"
crimes.
What are these predicate crimes, of which two or more could get you
thrown into the slammer for the rest of your life? Check these out:
* Violation of the Kohl 1,000-foot "gun-free-school-zone" law would
be a predicate crime in the House bill.
* Having a gun in violation of the Lautenberg amendment -- because
you spanked your kid or spat on your husband -- would be a predicate
in both the House and Senate versions.
* Accidentally shooting a doe instead of a buck (or shooting the
wrong kind of duck) would be a "crime of violence" (under the 18
U.S.C. 16 definition) and could therefore be a "predicate" crime if
some of the worst provisions from both bills end up in the final
version that goes to the President.
And, as mentioned above, your family's trip past the school -- as
you're driving home from church -- could send all of you to jail if
you use your gun in self-defense, rather than first retreating as
required in some states.
This is because:
* A "criminal street gang" exists as soon as this
"informal" group
of 3 or more individuals (your family) commits "2 or more gang
crimes... in relation to the group" if one of the crimes is a
"crime
of violence."
* Violation of the Kohl "gun-free-school-zone" amendment (18 U.S.C.
922(q)) is a "gang crime."
* The threat to use a firearm against the muggers is both a gang
crime and a crime of violence because it involves a "threat" of
"force" against a person.
The bills have other anti-gun provisions, as well:
1. Mandatory Prison Sentences For Gun Owners
The "street gang" provisions in the bill (as mentioned above) could
send you and your family to jail for 10 years-to-life if you defend
them with a gun under certain conditions.
But even apart from those RICO-style provisions in the bill, there is
other language in the bill that could send you to jail for twenty
years MINIMUM if you use a gun in self-defense... even without your
family being nearby.
Federal law prohibits the mere possession of a firearm during and in
relation to a crime of violence. The term "crime of violence"
clearly includes brandishing or even opening your coat to display a
firearm to defend yourself against a mugger -- without retreating --
in states that require retreat. Hence, a concealed carry permit
holder who opens his suit jacket and displays a firearm to a
potential mugger in these states is liable under this section because
"crime of violence" means the threatened use of force against
person
or property.
Section 114 of H.R. 1279 would increase the MINIMUM penalty for
shooting the mugger (i.e., a Bernie Goetz-type offense) to TWENTY
years in prison.
2. Expanding The Lautenberg Gun Ban
Section 109 of the House bill -- and its counterpart on the Senate
version -- makes it more likely that a person will NOT get bail if
they possessed a firearm after committing a "Lautenberg
misdemeanor."
Again, a person could be held to commit such a misdemeanor if the
person spanked their kid or spat on their spouse. So for having
committed this small infraction (and for owning a gun) a person faces
a higher probability of being held in jail until trial.
ACTION: Contact your United States senators. Ask them to oppose
anti-gun so-called "gang" legislation.
You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators a
pre-written e-mail message.
Pre-written letter
Dear Senator:
H.R. 1279 and its counterpart, S. 155, are supposedly "anti-gang"
measures. But they are so poorly drafted that they could lead to
lifetime prison sentences for fathers who protect their families from
muggers.
Under H.R. 1279, a family which drives within 1,000 feet of a school
(which is almost unavoidable) with a gun in the glove compartment
could be a criminal gang if the father or mother brandished the gun
to scare off a mugger. All members of the family could be subject to
a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence of ten years in prison -- and up to life
imprisonment, at the discretion of the court.
The Senate bill is only slightly better.
Please oppose these anti-gun abominations.
Sincerely,
****************************
Comments
It's sad that it's been that way in the majority of CA for years.
NRA Life Endowment Member
And now we have a GOP-sponsored measure that would criminalize the lot of us for defending ourselves?
Oh well... you get what you vote for. Have fun.
they best be in your home with a big knife in hand. I have only been around that situation a few times in my life. Would of, could of, but can't. [V]
Call 911 and hope for the best.
NRA Life Endowment Member
One gets tired of you and your stinking Demorats.No amount of posturing on your part will make a pile of stinking Sh** into decent human beings.
How about just giving it a rest. ?
BOTH PARTIES ARE EQUALLY GUILTY of selling America down the river.
I seem to recall a few folks back saying that a GOP victory was a victory for gun owners, that it was Kerry and his party of the gun-grabbers that would kill the 2nd Amendment.
And now we have a GOP-sponsored measure that would criminalize the lot of us for defending ourselves?
Oh well... you get what you vote for. Have fun.
What did you vote for?
with the parents.
Shadow62
look and you will see
listen and you shall hear
I seem to recall a few folks back saying that a GOP victory was a victory for gun owners, that it was Kerry and his party of the gun-grabbers that would kill the 2nd Amendment.
And now we have a GOP-sponsored measure that would criminalize the lot of us for defending ourselves?
Oh well... you get what you vote for. Have fun.
I have no doubt in my mind that had kerry won he would be holding press confrences railing against this anti-gun legislation. He is a hunter and gun owner, after all.[}:)]
Observation about EMM that might surprise even him. Had he posted this information about this dangerous proposed anti-gun owner law, I would have been to busy trying to spread the word to everyone I know to have the time to make yet another post bashing the Republicians (or in his case, it would be me bashing the Democrats.).
He is so single minded that he cannot resist a chance to bash the Republicans. Yet he never cricitizes the Democrats. Wonder why?
JAson[xx(]
It seams like a very cynical melodramatic interpretation, and scenario it boils down to a justifiable shooting is a justifiable shooting, even with me being a very cynical person do not believe any judge or prosecuting attorney would even try to pass me and my wife and kids off as a gang when I just popped two or three known felons with their hand in the cookie jar
And if that examination leads to a "blind alley" in which the sentence is harsh, fixed and unchangeable/unavoidable for all concerned, then you have your legal "injustice" that just might not only harm you but possible overflow onto your loved ones who happened to be with you and probably even support you and the actions you took.
If I can't spell, so what!
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I have a question from this posting..... What about the people that live in that 1,000 ft area? Here in Oklahoma we have lots of folks that live near schools and hunt are they subject to that law? And if so what about the 2nd amend for them? I am asking because I do not know and would like decent answers please.....
Say nothing, Just smile and make them guess how much you know....
I can't speak for all states, but I know in MA and NY where I have lived if you live w/in the "gun free" zone you can still own firearms and what not, but you were prohibited from discharging them on your property. This was more an issue in NY because it was a lot more rural.
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
quote: Having a gun in violation of the Lautenberg amendment -- because
you spanked your kid or spat on your husband -- would be a predicate
in both the House and Senate versions.
"spat on your husband" come on this reads into "arrested and convicted of spousal abuse" other words you beat the crap out of your spouse
"spanked your kid" , ok I do it when necessary have not been arrested for it because I do not even come close to child abuse, Talk about sugar coating these are not good examples,More than likely you have already lost your gun right under the current law for being a p.o.s anyway
"Mandatory Prison Sentences For Gun Owners" not for just being a gun owner, and this is what it implies
quote:"All members of the family could be subject to
a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence of ten years in prison -- and up to life
imprisonment" sure I shoot a knife wielding punk who reached in my car and stabbed me in the shoulder ,and I will as well as my 12 year old son and my wife will spend the rest of our lives behind bars
all I am saying that the point on how bad of an ideal these laws are could be made into a more believable situation than driving home from church by a school on the night of a full moon on Elvis's birthday you could go to prison {see I can exaggerate that one step further, looks stupid don't it?}
I think the government is using 911 as a catalyst to invoke all the B.S. laws they can in the name of good of the people this is just a start
who?
although I fail to see how I hurt your privacy.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.