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Little Big Horn rifle sold at auction
discusdad
Member Posts: 11,427 ✭✭✭✭
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Don't want Wifey to Know
$258,000? I wonder how much I can get for Billy the Kid's Luger? [:0][:p]
at least twice your yearly moderators income...............
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
$258,000? I wonder how much I can get for Billy the Kid's Luger? [:0][:p]
at least twice your yearly moderators income...............
Yeah, that's what my insurance agent said. [:(]
just curious Spidey, do you believe this rifle is legit or not? i sense that you don't
Well, it isn't for me to say as the bidders obviously believe the provenance. I guess I'm skeptical about it being "found" by some rancher in 1883 as I would think the battlefield had been pretty well picked over by then.
Still, the Indians were the only fighters who had repeating rifles so I'm sure a Sharps was part of their arsenal. Apparently, the story has been accepted by experts so I have no basis with which to dispute it. I wouldn't bet $258,000 on it though!
and I would tend to agree with your assessment on how it came to be "found " [:D]
quote:Originally posted by discusdad
there is a great you tube program about the forensics done at LBH, the plotting of each individual spent cartridge, full cartridge, and bullet. i was unaware of the existence of individual guns found or determined to have been there. the story of the rancher is probably a PC version of the rancher killed the Indian for rustling or he bought it from him for that evil corn liquor type stuff.
An old gentleman I knew was doing some post graduate work on the battlefield in the 1930's when he found the skeletal remains of an Indian in a crevasse still clutching his rifle. My memory fails me as to what type of rifle it was but he turned it over park service where it is now part of their museum. Sounds like he should have kept his mouth shut and held on to it....[:0]
Elmer Keith relates an almost identical story in his book "Sixguns" It's been years since I read it but in his book I think he said that "an old gentleman" who was a rancher in his area had told him about finding the body of an Indian in a group of rocks, still holding an old rusted rifle. If memory serves me well, Keith went to the area the man described and indeed found the skeleton and a rusted rifle. He left the skeleton there and took the rifle which he described as hopelessly rusted. He later gave the rifle to a friend of his. I still have Keith's book. If I just have the time I will look it up.
I have an 1873 Trapdoor carbine. I'll take half that for it & provide you any story you want to go with it.[:D]
Got to be some of those Colts captured by the Indians that have turned up over the years. Good Lord would I love to have one of those guns.
quote:Originally posted by kevind6
An old gentleman I knew was doing some post graduate work on the battlefield in the 1930's when he found the skeletal remains of an Indian in a crevasse still clutching his rifle. My memory fails me as to what type of rifle it was but he turned it over park service where it is now part of their museum. Sounds like he should have kept his mouth shut and held on to it....[:0]
Elmer Keith relates an almost identical story in his book "Sixguns" It's been years since I read it but in his book I think he said that "an old gentleman" who was a rancher in his area had told him about finding the body of an Indian in a group of rocks, still holding an old rusted rifle. If memory serves me well, Keith went to the area the man described and indeed found the skeleton and a rusted rifle. He left the skeleton there and took the rifle which he described as hopelessly rusted. He later gave the rifle to a friend of his. I still have Keith's book. If I just have the time I will look it up.
I read the same recently (great book, period). I think he said he had the skull for a while too. IIRC, it had a bullet hole between the eyes.
This was just after a brush fire so the ground was clear and they could really do their work.
These college geniuses found few cartridge casings on "Last Stand Hill" and so concluded that there was not much of a fight, that the troopers with Custer either had their guns jam, or else, they were too scared to shoot many Indians.
The problem was that this survey happened some 110 years after the battle. These college profs. figured that they were the first ones to pick up cartridge cases at the Battle of the Little Big Horn.
That notion is ridiculous.
Why, a week after the battle, burial details were sent there and spent days in the hot Montana sun. Don't you suppose that they were picking up souveniers? Hell they knew exactly where Custer had been killed, don't you think they would have wanted a shell that Custer might have fired?
I was talking to a guy several years ago, he lived in Montana and he said that back in the fifties he and his kids went up there and came back home with a 5 gallon bucket nearly filled with souvenirs from the battle, including lots of cartridge cases.
The study that these professors did goes against common sense. If you are being attacked by 3,000 Sioux you are going to shoot, reload, and shoot again. Time and again the US Cavalry fought against overwhelming odds and they usually won in these Indian battles.
This study on the Discovery Channel was fatally flawed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f{burp}86JmD4k&ab_channel=HistorywithNatalieGray
here is the modern site interpretation of the battle. good presentation!
quote:Originally posted by john carr
quote:Originally posted by kevind6
An old gentleman I knew was doing some post graduate work on the battlefield in the 1930's when he found the skeletal remains of an Indian in a crevasse still clutching his rifle. My memory fails me as to what type of rifle it was but he turned it over park service where it is now part of their museum. Sounds like he should have kept his mouth shut and held on to it....[:0]
Elmer Keith relates an almost identical story in his book "Sixguns" It's been years since I read it but in his book I think he said that "an old gentleman" who was a rancher in his area had told him about finding the body of an Indian in a group of rocks, still holding an old rusted rifle. If memory serves me well, Keith went to the area the man described and indeed found the skeleton and a rusted rifle. He left the skeleton there and took the rifle which he described as hopelessly rusted. He later gave the rifle to a friend of his. I still have Keith's book. If I just have the time I will look it up.
I read the same recently (great book, period). I think he said he had the skull for a while too. IIRC, it had a bullet hole between the eyes.
I wasn't aware of Elmer Keith's story, but it does sounds like different versions of the same event. Who knows what embellishments may have been added to one or both accounts.
Gruntled here is a useful video to gauge whether your gun might have been there. plus for $10,000 you can send to the Museum, they will test fire it and compare to the ballistics base to see if it actually was there.
For $10,000 I will sell you the gun & give you a letter saying my Great-Grandfather used it at the battle.[:D] Actually there isn't any realistic price that I would sell it for. It goes to my son or maybe my grandson.
from that video i posted it gave an estimate of the range of serial numbers of guns delivered to the 7th cav, is yours inside that minimum/maximum range?
If it's a cut-down rifle, which a lot of the so-called "carbines" commonly are thanks to Francis Bannerman, it was never used by the 7th Cavalry.