In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

WINCHESTER ARMY RIFLES

pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
What country actually fielded the Winchester lever action rifle for its army, and what model was it??

SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • Warpig883Warpig883 Member Posts: 6,459
    edited November -1
    I remember reading that once. It was in Europe or Afrika wasn't it?





    I am not a number I am a free man

    sig

    Volin.gif
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winchester made several attempts to interest various world military forces in its lever action rifles but actual sales were few and far between. About 1,000 Model 1866 rifles were sold to Brazil and another 1,000 or so Model 1873 rifles went to Mexico and saw heavy usage. The only major purchasers were the Turks who used their Model 1873 rifles against the Russians at the battle of Pleven in 1878 with impressive results. I actually saw two examples of these Turkish Wincesters housed in arms collections inside of Bulgaria in pristine condition.

    Mark T. Christian
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's interesting Mark, never read that before. What caliber were the Turk rifles, do you remember?

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark, didn't Russia have some 1895's in service too?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ahhh Trap, that's what I was looking for, good for your!!

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
    Mark, didn't Russia have some 1895's in service too?


    Yes, the Russian Imperial Government purchased 293,816 Model 1895 lever-action Muskets chambered for the 7.62mm x 54R cartridge.

    There were also considerably more than 1000 Model 1866s sold to Mexico and Brazil. As Mark C. mentioned, the Turks bought several thousand Model 1873 Muskets (all in 44 W.C.F.).


    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!

    WACA Historian & Life Member

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nicaragua and Costa Rica also purchased M73 Muskets in 44WCF.In the early 60's an American Rifleman article told of a company that purchased a couple of cases of new 73's from Costa Rica. At the Disneyland Gunshow in about 1963, I purchased 3 of them-new, right out of the wooden crate from the Costa Rician Arsenal. I still have one, and am sure sorry I traded off the other 2.I paid $300 each, which was quite a bit at that time.

    Bert-I'll be in touch.My Mother and my Daughter have been hit with that knockdown, dragout FLU!!I think I'm next[B)]
    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Muskets made in the late 1800s?

    I thought a musket was a smoothbore single shot.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tapwatertapwater Member Posts: 10,336 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wonder where all those Russians ended up?..Wouldn't still be in some forgotten warehouse ?? Or did they get scattered world wide.??

    The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Muskets made in the late 1800s?

    I thought a musket was a smoothbore single shot.


    Winchesters in military configuration had wood to the end of the bbl, as well as a handguard.They were referred to as Muskets.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Swede Mauser has wood to nearly the end of the barrel, and a handguard. Never heard it called a musket.
    I will have to take your word for that one.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    My Swede Mauser has wood to nearly the end of the barrel, and a handguard. Never heard it called a musket.
    I will have to take your word for that one.


    Allen.. its not me, thats how Winchester catalogued them.

    They're also listed in the Bluebook, and other price guides.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tapwater
    Wonder where all those Russians ended up?..Wouldn't still be in some forgotten warehouse ?? Or did they get scattered world wide.??

    The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.


    Tapwater... Yes, I believe that many of them are still in Russia. A fair number of them migrated out as captures (through Scandinavia), and it is believed that many were scrapped during the WW II war efforts. However, I did read something a few years ago about several thousand of them being locked up in old armories/arsenals, and Russia wanting to sell/re-import them back to the U.S. (due to the high collector value), but they ran into legal roadblocks in doing so. Hopefully, someday, that can be overcome.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!

    WACA Historian & Life Member

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can we write Pres. PUTAN and get our name on his list for a V.G. or better M95??

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it was here on GB, someone had one for auction.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hangfire, I have been checking up on you on another forum, and you are right. Winchester's ads referred to these guns as muskets. The dictionary calls a musket firearm that is held to the shoulder, that has a long barrel.
    Usually, though this term is used to denote a smoothbore. In other words the Brown Bess musket.
    Just before the civil war, when military developers were coming up with new shoulder arms with rifling, one of them was called a Springfield Rifled Musket, and I have generally seen the term musket applied to smoothbores.
    Anyway, these things you learn on the forums.
    Now, I realize have a Swedish Mauser Musket.

    ps This other forum is a Mosin Nagant forum, I now remember a few years back those guys were talking about the stash of M95s that had been found in Russia. They were going nuts talking about the Russians were going to export these to the US. Then the deal ran afoul of some regulation, I think it was some Clinton regulation.
    Would that be cool to have a Winchester chambered for the Mosin Nagant round. Hell, I have a Mosin Nagant that was made by the Russians in 1895 and it is a great shooter, I bet those Winchesters are great shooters, too.
    One problem, have to come up with some new ammo. No spitzer shells for the tubular magazine.
    That would be one powerful lever action.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen- I think Winchester used the word Musket to distinguish their military versions, as they already had carbine and rifle versions of the same model.
    As to the Russian 95 and spitzers....they'll work just fine, The M95 Win has a single stack box magazine, not tubular like the 73.

    The 95 was chambered in other many high power cartridges:

    30-03
    30-06
    30-40 Krag
    .303 British
    35 Win
    38-72Win
    .405Win

    and probably others that Bert H will be just tickled to death to correct me with[8D][8D]


    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
    Allen- I think Winchester used the word Musket to distinguish their military versions, as they already had carbine and rifle versions of the same model.
    As to the Russian 95 and spitzers....they'll work just fine, The M95 Win has a single stack box magazine, not tubular like the 73.

    The 95 was chambered in other many high power cartridges:

    30-03
    30-06
    30-40 Krag
    .303 British
    35 Win
    38-72Win
    .405Win

    and probably others that Bert H will be just tickled to death to correct me with[8D][8D]


    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob


    Bob... you missed just one... the 40-72 W.C.F.[:D]

    If you are into self-induced pain, try shooting an original '95 chambered in 4[B)]5 W.C.F. sometime... just be sure to use a mouth piece like what the boxers use (dental work is expensive)[}:)]

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!

    WACA Historian & Life Member

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Bob... you missed just one... the 40-72 W.C.F.

    I knew that!!!B)...Just making sure you were paying attention[8D]

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gibbs505Gibbs505 Member Posts: 3,175
    edited November -1
    I would love to get my hands on one of those M 95's in 303

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    were they .303 brit or .303 savage??

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gibbs505Gibbs505 Member Posts: 3,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pack rat633
    were they .303 brit or .303 savage??

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI


    303 British, and I would love one[}:)]

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.