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Quick and possibly not bright question but be nice
rustyh
Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
Be patient with this question I am a rifle newbie.....
In a previous thread I received great suggestions for a rifle for my son. I had previously indicated a shooting range of 150 to 200 yards. With most shots at about 150. Well I was pretty far off. He shot his first deer today at 250 yards. Perfect heart shot. Dropped it dead. Not a big deer but a great shot. He was using a borrowed 270 I think.
Now the real question. What is more powerful? 30-06 or a 30-30? Where does a 270 fall in this discussion? Are all capable of 200 to 300 yard shots?
Thanks, Rusty
In a previous thread I received great suggestions for a rifle for my son. I had previously indicated a shooting range of 150 to 200 yards. With most shots at about 150. Well I was pretty far off. He shot his first deer today at 250 yards. Perfect heart shot. Dropped it dead. Not a big deer but a great shot. He was using a borrowed 270 I think.
Now the real question. What is more powerful? 30-06 or a 30-30? Where does a 270 fall in this discussion? Are all capable of 200 to 300 yard shots?
Thanks, Rusty
Comments
The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.
I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.
quote:Originally posted by Zebra
The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.
I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.
Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?
quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
quote:Originally posted by Zebra
The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.
I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.
Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?
Well all the signs of any intelligence you mightve had just went right out the window for your information the 8mm Mauser was one of the best cartridges ever made the Kar98 had the best action ever made period. Many gunmakers still use the same action today.
a .30/30 on the other hand is substantially less powerful than either. It's a 30 caliber bullet, but its case is much smaller than the '06/.270 case. Less powder=less velocity=less power. Plus, the shape of the .30/30 bullet is more rounded and much less aerodynamic than the spitzer type bullets in use in the .270 or .30-06, meaning that it has more "drag" while in flight.
The '06 and 270 can both easily handle 200-300 yard shots, if the shooter is up to it. the little .30/30 would be pushing it at 300 yards by most people's reckoning, with 200+ yards being the practical limit for it being that it loses velocity much faster than the bigger, "sharper" bullet rounds like a 270 or '06. The rainbow like trajectory it would have to have at that range is just a bit impractical for most shooters.
The 30-06 is also a great all around caliber and very popular as well. I consider it a deer and up size caliber(no reason you can't use it for small game, but there are better calibers IMO). With a boat-tail bullet it will also have fairly good ballistics down range, but will not shoot quite as flat as the .270.
The 30-30 was a great round back in it's hayday and still is an admirable round when hunting in dense brush where shots are kept under 150 yards. You can take game at longer distances with it as well, but compared to other calibers this would definitely not be my first choice for long shots.
Hope this helps some.
Jon
This has very little to do with caliber choice and a lot more to do with bullet choice.
Jon
Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]
Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.
Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]
Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.
For Elk and Bear I would definatly go with the 30-06.
Short range quick acqusition type hunting the 30-30 lever action is a great choice.
Personally I think the 270 is a groundhog gun. The 30-30 is dwarfed by the 30-06 which is definately the superb cartridge however I have seen 1000 yd shots taken by the 30-30.
Don, the only way you're gonna move a .30-30 1000 yards is if you put it in your car and drive it there.
quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
Personally I think the 270 is a groundhog gun. The 30-30 is dwarfed by the 30-06 which is definately the superb cartridge however I have seen 1000 yd shots taken by the 30-30.
Don, the only way you're gonna move a .30-30 1000 yards is if you put in your car and drive it there.
Maybe it was 1000ft I cant remember it was a neighbor of ours out there when we lived in the country he won all kinds of shooting competitions.
quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.
Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]
Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.
Sorry, just looked at screenshots, I thought it was you that didnt like blckhrn, It was danceswithsheep..
Sorry, I appologize
quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.
Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]
Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.
Sorry, just looked at screenshots, I thought it was you that didnt like blckhrn, It was danceswithsheep..
Sorry, I appologize
Blckhrn was a very close personal friend that I used to email all the time He often helped me out with Jess when she and I were together.
I probably jumped to conclusions on the 8mm Mauser. Sounds like a good old rifle. No offense Cyclonus. But I just wonder if you yell "halt" before shooting? [:D][:D]
EHhh. I have got the best deer call ever...
HEY DEER! HEY, OVER HERE!
quote:Originally posted by Zebra
I probably jumped to conclusions on the 8mm Mauser. Sounds like a good old rifle. No offense Cyclonus. But I just wonder if you yell "halt" before shooting? [:D][:D]
EHhh. I have got the best deer call ever...
HEY DEER! HEY, OVER HERE!
I usually say thats the last mistake this deer ever made then I fire. and they go down.
Maybe it was 1000ft I cant remember it was a neighbor of ours out there when we lived in the country he won all kinds of shooting competitions.
That sounds more like it. [:)]
Even at 333 yards he was indeed a good shot.
What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?
He passed away.
What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?
Blckhrn or Blackthorn well Blckhrn died.
What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?
If I'm not mistaken Zebra, Blackhorn passed away last summer.
quote:Originally posted by Zebra
What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?
He passed away.
Sorry to hear that
[:D]Yep.
Jon
He was in a parking lot, person found him at the wheel, called 911.. They couldnt save him..
His son told me he had a massive heart attack.
quote: usually say thats the last mistake this deer ever made then I fire. and they go down.
[:D]Yep.
Jon
Speaking of that has anyone ever had a deer do a backflip right after being shot they tend to do that when I hit them. Im gonna videotape my hunts from now on to catch it on video. I love the 8mm so much though my first shot on a deer with my 8mm killed 2 deer with one shot (didnt see the other one behind the mother) It went straight through her taking with it her heart and lungs and hit the other one in the spine thus killing it as well.
Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?
I could of swore that the 30-06 and .270 were almost as old.
BTW 8mm was created about 1888 (a little before the Nazis)
30-06 about 1906
.270 about 1925
All are old but they have stayed around for a reason, they work.
My Mannlicher (8mm) was made in 1925 and i have yet to have a deer get away. And I don't consider myself a Nazi running around with an antiquated POS.
New doesn't mean it's better, the deer are not tougher today than they were 100 years ago.
Last year.
Got Guns?
get all 3 u know u want to[:D][:D]
Nice Car!
Thanks for all the replies.
Rusty
Additional comments - 270 to build confidence, make it fun and successful. The 30-30 will make him hunt smarter and work a bit more for the shot. The 30-06 for growth to bigger things if desired. Sound reasonable?
I would go with the 270 with 130gr bullets.Plus you said he already got a deer with a 270 and great results.
You can't argue with results.
The 270/130gr is a great combination for deer. It is NOT a "ground hog" cartridge. It has been killing deer and other medium game for over 75 years. It seems he is comfortable with it, so I would just stick with it.
For a scope, I am very happy with my Bushnell Elite 3200, 3-9x40. Under $200 most places. Not top of the line, but it works well.
If you want to get technical, the first of the "30-06" series is the 7.62x64 (both rimmed and rimmless with a thick rim) AKA the 30-01, followed by the 7.62x64 AKA the 30-03 (both the -01 & -03 had longer necks and featured a 220gr bullet). When they decided to go with a 150gr bullet, they decided that the longer neck was no longer necessary, and so shortened the case to what we know today as the 30-06 AKA 30-Govt-1906 AKA 30-06 Springfield (from the Springfield arsenal where it was developed). All of these were derived from the 7mm Mauser cartridge that we faced in the SA war.
Sav99
Crank in enough elevation, and with a operator that knows how to read the wind, the tutty-tutty is certainly capable of killing paper at 1K (but it's more likely the guy was using a 30-40Krag, and the designation got "mis-remembered"), let's face it, they used to train guys to shoot 1K with the 45-70 trap-door Springfield.