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Quick and possibly not bright question but be nice

rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
edited November 2007 in General Discussion
Be patient with this question I am a rifle newbie.....
In a previous thread I received great suggestions for a rifle for my son. I had previously indicated a shooting range of 150 to 200 yards. With most shots at about 150. Well I was pretty far off. He shot his first deer today at 250 yards. Perfect heart shot. Dropped it dead. Not a big deer but a great shot. He was using a borrowed 270 I think.
Now the real question. What is more powerful? 30-06 or a 30-30? Where does a 270 fall in this discussion? Are all capable of 200 to 300 yard shots?
Thanks, Rusty
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Comments

  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    Personally I think the 270 is a groundhog gun. The 30-30 is dwarfed by the 30-06 which is definately the superb cartridge however I have seen 1000 yd shots taken by the 30-30.
  • needmygunsneedmyguns Member Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • ZebraZebra Member Posts: 5,762
    edited November -1
    The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.



    I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.
  • ZebraZebra Member Posts: 5,762
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.



    I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.



    Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.



    I guess you would think that 8mm mauser then is too big for deer and ive been using that for years 8mm Mauser when its absolutely positivly gotta stop in its tracks.



    Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?



    Well all the signs of any intelligence you mightve had just went right out the window for your information the 8mm Mauser was one of the best cartridges ever made the Kar98 had the best action ever made period. Many gunmakers still use the same action today.
  • nemesisenforcernemesisenforcer Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the .270 is a necked-down .30-06. In other words, a .30-06 is a 30 caliber round and a .270 is a 277 caliber round in the same case, so a .30-06 is more "powerful" in terms of energy, but the .270 is generally a lighter bullet and thus flatter shooting due to increased velocity. There's a great deal of overlap between the .270 and .30-06 envelopes but they're not exactly interchangable in terms of performance and uses.

    a .30/30 on the other hand is substantially less powerful than either. It's a 30 caliber bullet, but its case is much smaller than the '06/.270 case. Less powder=less velocity=less power. Plus, the shape of the .30/30 bullet is more rounded and much less aerodynamic than the spitzer type bullets in use in the .270 or .30-06, meaning that it has more "drag" while in flight.

    The '06 and 270 can both easily handle 200-300 yard shots, if the shooter is up to it. the little .30/30 would be pushing it at 300 yards by most people's reckoning, with 200+ yards being the practical limit for it being that it loses velocity much faster than the bigger, "sharper" bullet rounds like a 270 or '06. The rainbow like trajectory it would have to have at that range is just a bit impractical for most shooters.
  • Sig220_Ruger77Sig220_Ruger77 Member Posts: 12,754 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The .270 is an awesome caliber for deer and pronghorn sized game(afterall, thats what it was designed for) and has long range ability. It can also be used for small game(although probably not the best choice for an all day prarie dog hunt) and with a good bullet and shot placement can be used on Elk, Moose, and Caribou as well.
    The 30-06 is also a great all around caliber and very popular as well. I consider it a deer and up size caliber(no reason you can't use it for small game, but there are better calibers IMO). With a boat-tail bullet it will also have fairly good ballistics down range, but will not shoot quite as flat as the .270.
    The 30-30 was a great round back in it's hayday and still is an admirable round when hunting in dense brush where shots are kept under 150 yards. You can take game at longer distances with it as well, but compared to other calibers this would definitely not be my first choice for long shots.
    Hope this helps some.
    Jon
  • Sig220_Ruger77Sig220_Ruger77 Member Posts: 12,754 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:The .270 shoots flat and long and is perfect for deer. The 30.06 tears up too much meat in my opinion if that counts.

    This has very little to do with caliber choice and a lot more to do with bullet choice.

    Jon
  • catpealer111catpealer111 Member Posts: 10,695
    edited November -1
    If it's between the 30-30 and 30-06 and you know he'll be taking longer shots, go with the 30-06. But seeings how he's proficient with the 270, I'd say get him a 270 of his own.
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cyclonus..I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.

    Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Either of the 3 are great Deer rifles, that being said the 30-30 may be the best choice for hunting in thick woods. The .270 is a great rifle for almost any North American Game. Ive heard of Elk Guides out west who advise that you bring at least a .30 cal for Elk. Most Guides prefer a .308 or above. I own all 3 calibers and they all have their place and advantages, but I would choose the 30/06 as an all around small to large Game cartridge. Good Luck!!
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.

    Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]



    Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.
  • luvberettaluvberetta Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ahhh there you go rusty you just stirred up the old "Taste great" "Less Filling" war It's kind of like a Ford pissin on a Chevy or vice versa. Pro's and con's to both 270 and 30-06 but the real truth is you can't go wrong with either. Both have along history of taking more deer than can be counted beyond 300+ yrds, it now becomes a personal choice.
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For long distance deer and smaller the 270 is good.
    For Elk and Bear I would definatly go with the 30-06.
    Short range quick acqusition type hunting the 30-30 lever action is a great choice.
  • catpealer111catpealer111 Member Posts: 10,695
    edited November -1
    The 308 could also be considered as a combination of all three options. Maybe.
  • Sav99Sav99 Member Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    Personally I think the 270 is a groundhog gun. The 30-30 is dwarfed by the 30-06 which is definately the superb cartridge however I have seen 1000 yd shots taken by the 30-30.




    Don, the only way you're gonna move a .30-30 1000 yards is if you put it in your car and drive it there.
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sav99
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    Personally I think the 270 is a groundhog gun. The 30-30 is dwarfed by the 30-06 which is definately the superb cartridge however I have seen 1000 yd shots taken by the 30-30.






    Don, the only way you're gonna move a .30-30 1000 yards is if you put in your car and drive it there.



    Maybe it was 1000ft I cant remember it was a neighbor of ours out there when we lived in the country he won all kinds of shooting competitions.
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.

    Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]



    Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.


    Sorry, just looked at screenshots, I thought it was you that didnt like blckhrn, It was danceswithsheep..

    Sorry, I appologize
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    Cyclonus.. We dont get along, but I have to give it to you, youve got a nice taste in guns... I hunt with my the 8mm Mauser my Grandfather passed to me.

    Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser + Core Lokt bullets = dead deer [:D]



    Hey since when dont we get along I dont recall us ever having a fight I was also friends with BlackHrn. aka Doc Boehm. I made my 8mm myself took forever too Ill have to show pictures someday I had the barrel turned for wieght reduction I reblued it made a custom stock myself and I had a bent bolt handle made for it installed the scope myself. We have been hunting deer with the original for over 20 years and every single deer that was shot with it never got away. They all died right then and there and not one ever ran (although one did roll quite a bit down a steep hill before coming to rest in posted ground) That was a beautiful 10pt too bad the ground in which in landed was posted even though we were friends with the owner of the land he didnt let us go get it. Hence the only one that ever got away but it did die we just were unable to retrieve it.


    Sorry, just looked at screenshots, I thought it was you that didnt like blckhrn, It was danceswithsheep..

    Sorry, I appologize


    Blckhrn was a very close personal friend that I used to email all the time He often helped me out with Jess when she and I were together.
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    I probably jumped to conclusions on the 8mm Mauser. Sounds like a good old rifle. No offense Cyclonus. But I just wonder if you yell "halt" before shooting? [:D][:D]
    EHhh. I have got the best deer call ever...


















    HEY DEER! HEY, OVER HERE!
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    I probably jumped to conclusions on the 8mm Mauser. Sounds like a good old rifle. No offense Cyclonus. But I just wonder if you yell "halt" before shooting? [:D][:D]
    EHhh. I have got the best deer call ever...


















    HEY DEER! HEY, OVER HERE!


    I usually say thats the last mistake this deer ever made then I fire. and they go down.
  • ZebraZebra Member Posts: 5,762
    edited November -1
    What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?
  • Sav99Sav99 Member Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    Maybe it was 1000ft I cant remember it was a neighbor of ours out there when we lived in the country he won all kinds of shooting competitions.




    That sounds more like it. [:)]
    Even at 333 yards he was indeed a good shot.
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?

    He passed away.
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?


    Blckhrn or Blackthorn well Blckhrn died.
  • Sav99Sav99 Member Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?



    If I'm not mistaken Zebra, Blackhorn passed away last summer.
  • ZebraZebra Member Posts: 5,762
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MVP
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    What really happened to Blackthorn? I heard he verbally attacted a moderators wife or something last year?

    He passed away.


    Sorry to hear that
  • Sig220_Ruger77Sig220_Ruger77 Member Posts: 12,754 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: usually say thats the last mistake this deer ever made then I fire. and they go down.

    [:D]Yep.

    Jon
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Passed away.

    He was in a parking lot, person found him at the wheel, called 911.. They couldnt save him..

    His son told me he had a massive heart attack.
  • CyclonusCyclonus Member Posts: 2,825
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jon0322
    quote: usually say thats the last mistake this deer ever made then I fire. and they go down.

    [:D]Yep.

    Jon



    Speaking of that has anyone ever had a deer do a backflip right after being shot they tend to do that when I hit them. Im gonna videotape my hunts from now on to catch it on video. I love the 8mm so much though my first shot on a deer with my 8mm killed 2 deer with one shot (didnt see the other one behind the mother) It went straight through her taking with it her heart and lungs and hit the other one in the spine thus killing it as well.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,572 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice shot. I would be looking for a rifle just like he used as it as it must have fit him. I like a 270 but it has such limited selection of bullets. A 280 and 30-06/308 can have a much larger choice especially when reloaded. My usual procedure is to find what the rifle likes best and just shoot that combo. Enjoy hunting while you can. Oh and one last thought, he/you need more than one gun.
  • redneckandyredneckandy Member Posts: 9,714 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Zebra
    Last time I checked the year is 2007. An 8mm Mauser conjures up images of a Nazi running around in the woods with an antiquated POS?
    I could of swore that the 30-06 and .270 were almost as old.
    BTW 8mm was created about 1888 (a little before the Nazis)
    30-06 about 1906
    .270 about 1925
    All are old but they have stayed around for a reason, they work.
    My Mannlicher (8mm) was made in 1925 and i have yet to have a deer get away. And I don't consider myself a Nazi running around with an antiquated POS.
    New doesn't mean it's better, the deer are not tougher today than they were 100 years ago.
  • guns-n-painthorsesguns-n-painthorses Member Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 30-30 is a great deer gun. I use Horaday's Leverevolution with 160 gr spire tip bullets. I hunt only with iron sights, no scopes, no range finders. The round has a muzzle volicity of 2400 fps and at 200 yards has a 0.2" drop. But if you get out there to 300 yards, the drop is more like 12".

    Last year.

    OhDeere1.jpg


    Got Guns?
  • CHEVELLE427CHEVELLE427 Member Posts: 6,750
    edited November -1
    get all 3 u know u want to[:D][:D]
  • rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CHEVELLE427
    get all 3 u know u want to[:D][:D]

    Nice Car!
  • rustyhrustyh Member Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is great....I now have too many choices that all make good logical sense to me. I will just have to buy more guns! What a problem to have. Sounds like a plan may be to get a 270 to start add a 30-30 and then a 30-06. Any preference on brand and scopes that will let me get in for $400. I am not afraid of used and does not have to be fancy or popular.
    Thanks for all the replies.
    Rusty

    Additional comments - 270 to build confidence, make it fun and successful. The 30-30 will make him hunt smarter and work a bit more for the shot. The 30-06 for growth to bigger things if desired. Sound reasonable?
  • frog21frog21 Member Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would go with the 270 with 130gr bullets.Plus you said he already got a deer with a 270 and great results.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by frog21
    I would go with the 270 with 130gr bullets.Plus you said he already got a deer with a 270 and great results.


    You can't argue with results.

    The 270/130gr is a great combination for deer. It is NOT a "ground hog" cartridge. It has been killing deer and other medium game for over 75 years. It seems he is comfortable with it, so I would just stick with it.

    For a scope, I am very happy with my Bushnell Elite 3200, 3-9x40. Under $200 most places. Not top of the line, but it works well.
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    RedneckAndy
    If you want to get technical, the first of the "30-06" series is the 7.62x64 (both rimmed and rimmless with a thick rim) AKA the 30-01, followed by the 7.62x64 AKA the 30-03 (both the -01 & -03 had longer necks and featured a 220gr bullet). When they decided to go with a 150gr bullet, they decided that the longer neck was no longer necessary, and so shortened the case to what we know today as the 30-06 AKA 30-Govt-1906 AKA 30-06 Springfield (from the Springfield arsenal where it was developed). All of these were derived from the 7mm Mauser cartridge that we faced in the SA war.

    Sav99
    Crank in enough elevation, and with a operator that knows how to read the wind, the tutty-tutty is certainly capable of killing paper at 1K (but it's more likely the guy was using a 30-40Krag, and the designation got "mis-remembered"), let's face it, they used to train guys to shoot 1K with the 45-70 trap-door Springfield.
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