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(C&P) A turning point for the Palestinians
HAIRY
Member Posts: 23,606
Sharon made many promises, which he could not fulfill.
He promised his fellow Zionists that he will be able to crush the
INTIFADAH within 100 days but it is still going strong after about 1200 days.
Sharon's wishful thinking to create civil war and chaos among the
Palestinian Arabs also failed in spite of the great suferings
he caused them
A turning point for the Palestinians
By Danny Rubinstein
Haaretz Feb. 23 /2004
From the way it looks now among the Palestinian leadership and public, the withdrawal from the settlements in Gaza will not cause chaos there, or a free-for-all fight.
Only a year ago, Sharon declared that the settlement of Netzarim is like Tel Aviv, and the settlement of Kfar Darom is like Ra'anana, and there would never be a withdrawal from them.
This was an Israeli campaign of incitement designed to arouse quarrels and to cause a deterioration in the relationships among the Palestinian factions.
In recent days, the Palestinians have begun preparations for the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Not with actions, of course, but with words. In the face of Israeli assessments that the withdrawal will lead to chaos and civil war among the various Palestinian groups, a flood of Palestinian declarations began on the weekend, stating that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is interested in having the withdrawal lead to a Palestinian civil war, whereas they will do everything possible to prevent it.
Hamas activists Sheikh Ismail Haniyeh (Gaza) and Mohammed Ghazal (Nablus), as well as Islamic Jihad leader Mohammed al-Hindi, explained that this was an Israeli campaign of incitement designed to arouse quarrels and to cause a deterioration in the relationships among the Palestinian factions. In their opinion: "The withdrawal is an achievement of the entire Palestinian people," and the encounters between the various groups should be renewed, in order to achieve a national consensus and perhaps even to establish a joint leadership.
The preparations for the withdrawal also included a summit meeting between Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat and his rival Mohammed Dahlan, who has a great deal of power in Gaza. They met mid-week, after a series of intermediaries, headed by members of the Palestinian parliament Rouhi Fatouh and Azam al-Ahmed, worked to bring about a reconciliation between them, in the context of the attempts to mend the rifts in the ranks of Fatah.
Upon leaving the meeting, Dahlan said that, in his opinion, the withdrawal is the greatest achievement of the Palestinian intifada, and that the common denominator between him and Hamas is much greater than the differences between them. In other words, he doesn't anticipate internal wars, either. "We have to celebrate the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza just as Hezbollah celebrated the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from Lebanon," he said.
Ghassan al-Khatib, a member of the Palestinian cabinet, agrees that the large number of placatory Palestinian declarations testifies to a fear of chaos in Gaza after the withdrawal - but according to his analysis, the Israeli withdrawal will not take place so fast. He says Ariel Sharon will have a very hard time getting support for the plan in his coalition, and will try to achieve something in exchange for the withdrawal, in the guise of an American agreement to the plan for the separation fence and to the strengthening of the settlement blocs in the West Bank. But the Americans will not agree to that, and everything will get stuck. His assessment is reinforced by the reports received by the Palestinians regarding the conversations of the three American diplomats with Sharon last week. According to those reports, the Americans did not succeed in getting Sharon to answer most of their questions.
After the Palestinians discovered that the evacuation of the settlements in Gaza will really be carried out unilaterally, it's hard for them to hide their satisfaction. The reason is simple: Had Israel proposed an agreement on withdrawal from Gaza to them, they would have been required to give something in return. Now they are getting it for free, and they are emphasizing that fact. "For us, the withdrawal from Gaza will not come at the expense of anything else, and we certainly won't agree to give anything in exchange on the West Bank," said Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Sha'ath, for example.
From the way it looks now among the Palestinian leadership and public, the withdrawal from the settlements in Gaza will not cause chaos there, or a free-for-all fight. The Fatah organization, whose members are at odds with one another, will come to its senses and take over the settlements in an orderly manner, and in coordination (though not in agreement) with Israel. And the Palestinian Authority, together with the various opposition organizations, will try to turn the withdrawal into a Palestinian victory campaign, the likes of which hasn't been seen for years.
Almost all the Palestinian spokesmen explain that this is likely to be a turning point, and remind their people that only a year ago, Sharon declared that the settlement of Netzarim is like Tel Aviv, and the settlement of Kfar Darom is like Ra'anana, and there would never be a withdrawal from them. The imprecise citation is that of Mohammed Dahlan, but that cannot change the situation, which is characterized for the most part by a feeling of success that is gradually coming to include almost all the political activists in the West Bank and in Gaza. sick in Israel.
c Copyright Haaretz. All rights reserved
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
He promised his fellow Zionists that he will be able to crush the
INTIFADAH within 100 days but it is still going strong after about 1200 days.
Sharon's wishful thinking to create civil war and chaos among the
Palestinian Arabs also failed in spite of the great suferings
he caused them
A turning point for the Palestinians
By Danny Rubinstein
Haaretz Feb. 23 /2004
From the way it looks now among the Palestinian leadership and public, the withdrawal from the settlements in Gaza will not cause chaos there, or a free-for-all fight.
Only a year ago, Sharon declared that the settlement of Netzarim is like Tel Aviv, and the settlement of Kfar Darom is like Ra'anana, and there would never be a withdrawal from them.
This was an Israeli campaign of incitement designed to arouse quarrels and to cause a deterioration in the relationships among the Palestinian factions.
In recent days, the Palestinians have begun preparations for the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Not with actions, of course, but with words. In the face of Israeli assessments that the withdrawal will lead to chaos and civil war among the various Palestinian groups, a flood of Palestinian declarations began on the weekend, stating that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is interested in having the withdrawal lead to a Palestinian civil war, whereas they will do everything possible to prevent it.
Hamas activists Sheikh Ismail Haniyeh (Gaza) and Mohammed Ghazal (Nablus), as well as Islamic Jihad leader Mohammed al-Hindi, explained that this was an Israeli campaign of incitement designed to arouse quarrels and to cause a deterioration in the relationships among the Palestinian factions. In their opinion: "The withdrawal is an achievement of the entire Palestinian people," and the encounters between the various groups should be renewed, in order to achieve a national consensus and perhaps even to establish a joint leadership.
The preparations for the withdrawal also included a summit meeting between Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat and his rival Mohammed Dahlan, who has a great deal of power in Gaza. They met mid-week, after a series of intermediaries, headed by members of the Palestinian parliament Rouhi Fatouh and Azam al-Ahmed, worked to bring about a reconciliation between them, in the context of the attempts to mend the rifts in the ranks of Fatah.
Upon leaving the meeting, Dahlan said that, in his opinion, the withdrawal is the greatest achievement of the Palestinian intifada, and that the common denominator between him and Hamas is much greater than the differences between them. In other words, he doesn't anticipate internal wars, either. "We have to celebrate the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza just as Hezbollah celebrated the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from Lebanon," he said.
Ghassan al-Khatib, a member of the Palestinian cabinet, agrees that the large number of placatory Palestinian declarations testifies to a fear of chaos in Gaza after the withdrawal - but according to his analysis, the Israeli withdrawal will not take place so fast. He says Ariel Sharon will have a very hard time getting support for the plan in his coalition, and will try to achieve something in exchange for the withdrawal, in the guise of an American agreement to the plan for the separation fence and to the strengthening of the settlement blocs in the West Bank. But the Americans will not agree to that, and everything will get stuck. His assessment is reinforced by the reports received by the Palestinians regarding the conversations of the three American diplomats with Sharon last week. According to those reports, the Americans did not succeed in getting Sharon to answer most of their questions.
After the Palestinians discovered that the evacuation of the settlements in Gaza will really be carried out unilaterally, it's hard for them to hide their satisfaction. The reason is simple: Had Israel proposed an agreement on withdrawal from Gaza to them, they would have been required to give something in return. Now they are getting it for free, and they are emphasizing that fact. "For us, the withdrawal from Gaza will not come at the expense of anything else, and we certainly won't agree to give anything in exchange on the West Bank," said Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Sha'ath, for example.
From the way it looks now among the Palestinian leadership and public, the withdrawal from the settlements in Gaza will not cause chaos there, or a free-for-all fight. The Fatah organization, whose members are at odds with one another, will come to its senses and take over the settlements in an orderly manner, and in coordination (though not in agreement) with Israel. And the Palestinian Authority, together with the various opposition organizations, will try to turn the withdrawal into a Palestinian victory campaign, the likes of which hasn't been seen for years.
Almost all the Palestinian spokesmen explain that this is likely to be a turning point, and remind their people that only a year ago, Sharon declared that the settlement of Netzarim is like Tel Aviv, and the settlement of Kfar Darom is like Ra'anana, and there would never be a withdrawal from them. The imprecise citation is that of Mohammed Dahlan, but that cannot change the situation, which is characterized for the most part by a feeling of success that is gradually coming to include almost all the political activists in the West Bank and in Gaza. sick in Israel.
c Copyright Haaretz. All rights reserved
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Comments
When are you visiting Arafat in Ramallah? You can always disguise yourself as Leslie Stahl. [:D]. Why don't you just admit that you want to run for PLO chairman. Come on, it can't be that hard. All you have to do is model yourself after Arafat.
Just admit that Arafat is your hero and you can rest easy. Just start off each thread by saying. "Arafat is my hero". Its that easy.
~Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour~
~Proud member of the NRA and The John Birch Society~
~Protecting the 2nd Ammendment and United States Sovereignty~
-Firearms that I like to shoot-
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
You will burn in hell for your antisemetic and pro-palestinian posts. Those who go against the Jewish people and The Jewish state , end up in the bowels of history, along with Hitler and Stalin. Arafat is a terrorist thug, and his Hesbolah fat vermin women were cheering in the streets when Americans where falling out of burning rubble from the Trade Centers.
You are a traitor to your own people. Is that coherent enough for you!!
~Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour~
~Proud member of the NRA and The John Birch Society~
~Protecting the 2nd Ammendment and United States Sovereignty~
I dislike what Israel is doing as much as I dislike suicide bombing. Am I anti-semitic now?
Ruger22: People like you who do nothing and accept tragedy and conflict for what it is have a special place reserved for them in hell. "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" I believe the saying goes.
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..."
We're men. Its our God given right to watch sports and smut" - Al Bundy
I highly approve of the Jewish committment to keep their country as
they wish. Possibly if the PLO tried to build up their own land instead
of only wanting to tear Iarael down to their own low level things might
work out. Jealousy is a bad thing. Naturally, some Jewish newspapers
are against the administration. Same as our newspapers are anti-administration here.
To whom much is given, much is expected.
until we have a leader like meir kahane that will speak the truth and say that the arabs and jews will never live in peace on the same peice of land, until we have a strong jewish leader that will say the truth that the arabs have been occupying israel and need to leave and go back to their lands the way the jews were driven back to theirs. till then there will never be peace.the arbs understand the langauge of the whip ,gun, and bomb, a lot of people are beginning to understand that and only the most foolish of optimists believes that there can be a palestinian and an israeli state living side by side with each other. sure arafat will take what he can get today but hamas wont and they will use the palestinian state as a staging ground to attack more of israel.
the solution the world is trying to impose is a recipe for a mideast war like has not been seen should a palestinian state be established ,even if on sharons terms and unilaterally, much more so if the palestinians get everything they want. these terrorists raise their children to commit suicide in gods name as long as they can kill a few jews while theyre killing themselves. i dont understand why anyone is upset when the israelis kill a few palestinians,aftrer all it is their highest hope to die, were helping them get there quicker.
justice for israel
no mercy
2gun: quote:until we have a leader like meir kahane 'nuf said. He made Arafat look peaceful. Here's a description of this guy and his organization:
quote:Kach and Kahane Chai
From: Patterns of Global Terrorism, 2002. United States Department of State, April 2003.
Comments on the content of the material should be sent to the U.S. Department of State
Description
Stated goal is to restore the biblical state of Israel. Kach (founded by radical Israeli-American rabbi Meir Kahane) and its offshoot Kahane Chai, which means "Kahane Lives," (founded by Meir Kahane's son Binyamin following his father's assassination in the United States) were declared to be terrorist organizations in March 1994 by the Israeli Cabinet under the 1948 Terrorism Law. (Emphasis added by Hairy) This followed the groups' statements in support of Dr. Baruch Goldstein's attack in February 1994 on the al-Ibrahimi Mosque-Goldstein was affiliated with Kach-and their verbal attacks on the Israeli Government. Palestinian gunmen killed Binyamin Kahane and his wife in a drive-by shooting in December 2000 in the West Bank.
Activities
The group has organized protests against the Israeli Government and has harassed and threatened Palestinians in the West Bank. Kach members have threatened to attack Arabs, Palestinians, and Israeli Government officials. Has vowed revenge for the death of Binyamin Kahane and his wife. Suspected of involvement in a number of low-level attacks since the start of the al-Aqsa intifadah.
Strength
Unknown.
Location/Area of Operation
Israel and West Bank settlements, particularly Qiryat Arba' in Hebron.
External Aid
Receives support from sympathizers in the United States and Europe.
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
[}:)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
since you feel that meir kahane is worse than arafat i suggest you educate us on what he did that was so bad. did he order any bombings? did he order the israeli army to take any action at all? if he was here in the u.s. the aclu would have defended his right to free speech. in israel there were too many fools that thought he was a threat for telling the truth so they blocked him from running for office again for his views. never having killed a single arab he was the first shot in the war on terror.if they had translated nosairs notes they would have been able to stop the first tpowers bombing. its no big deal to you that another jew was killed by a terrorist for espousing the truth strong jews and a strong country are the only way to survive.
you support arafat and hamas and would presume to call someone a terrorist for advocating the transfer of arabs out of israel, a position you clearly dont like but you have no problem with with transfer of jews out of areas that they lived in during the mandate. read your history terrorist lover.learn the truth about the murderous arabs and what the did to get the jews out of hebron n 1929.do you have any objections to the arb position.
youre going to have to do better than spout your favorite terrorist party line and call me name while you do it.[V]
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Very well said. One can tell that you are a true patriot.
~Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour~
~Proud member of the NRA and The John Birch Society~
~Protecting the 2nd Ammendment and United States Sovereignty~
Yes, I know you are an antisemite Bolshevic, but I am not sure Hairy is accepting donations right now, perhaps you can kiss his butt later.
~Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour~
~Proud member of the NRA and The John Birch Society~
~Protecting the 2nd Ammendment and United States Sovereignty~
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
There is a place reserved for thses meanderings...
Mateomasfeo
"I am what I am!" - Popeye
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
What are Kach and Kahane Chai?
Two marginal Israeli groups that have used terrorism to pursue their goals of expanding Jewish rule across the West Bank and expelling the Palestinians. Both groups grew out of the anti-Arab teachings of Rabbi Meir Kahane, an American-born extremist who founded and led Kach (its name means "thus" in Hebrew) until he was assassinated in New York in 1990. Israel outlawed Kach and its offshoot Kahane Chai ("Kahane Lives") in 1994, a month after a Kach supporter shot and killed 29 Muslim worshipers at a West Bank mosque. Experts say Kahanist leaders in Israel have steered clear of terrorism recently in hopes of getting Israel to lift the ban on the two groups, but Israeli authorities continue to regard Jewish extremists as a potential terrorist threat. The State Department lists Kach and Kahane Chai as foreign terrorist organizations.
What terrorist attacks have been associated with Kach and Kahane Chai?
The deadliest came in February 1994, shortly after the signing of the Oslo peace accords between Israel and the PLO, when Baruch Goldstein, a Brooklyn-born doctor and Kach supporter, opened fire with a machine gun inside the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron. He killed 29 people and wounded dozens more before he was himself killed. Goldstein chose to attack at a particularly sensitive religious site; the mosque is built atop the Cave of the Patriarchs, where, according to both Jewish and Muslim traditions, the prophet Abraham and his family are buried.
Kahanists have also shot, stabbed, and thrown grenades at Palestinians in Jerusalem and the West Bank. In cases where Kach and Kahane Chai have not themselves claimed responsibility for anti-Arab attacks, Kahane and his followers have declined to condemn such violence and have often glorified it.
The Machteret-a 1980s Jewish underground terror group with links to Kach-staged several attacks, including an unsuccessful May 1980 campaign to kill several Palestinian mayors, before being broken up. Israeli authorities also foiled the Machteret's plans to blow up Jerusalem's al-Aqsa Mosque, which is built atop the contested holy site known by Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and by Jews as the Temple Mount. Destroying the mosque, experts say, could provoke a massive Middle Eastern conflict.
How big are Kach and Kahane Chai?
Recent reports say Kach and Kahane Chai have an overlapping core membership of several dozen as well as a larger number-perhaps several hundred-of less committed supporters that includes both native-born Israelis and radicalized immigrants from the United States and elsewhere.
Where do Kach and Kahane Chai operate?
In Israel and the West Bank. Two West Bank settlements-Kiryat Arba, near Hebron, and Tapuach-are thought to be the cradles of Kahanist support.
Have Kach and Kahane Chai been active in the current Israeli-Palestinian violence?
We don't know. Neither group has claimed responsibility for any of the recent anti-Arab bomb plots or the more common roadside shootings of Palestinians by Israeli extremists. Nor have Israeli authorities yet proved any Kach or Kahane Chai connection to these attacks. In April 2002, Israeli police arrested a former Kach spokesman in connection with an attempt to leave an explosive-packed trailer outside a Palestinian girls' school and hospital in East Jerusalem, but experts say the plot was arranged by individuals affiliated with another Jewish extremist group that is not affiliated with Kach or Kahane Chai.
Who was Meir Kahane?
Martin David Kahane was born in 1932 in Brooklyn, New York. As a teenager, he joined Betar, a quasi-military youth group affiliated with the Revisionist Zionist movement, which sought a Jewish state in all of British-ruled Palestine. In 1968, Kahane, who trained as a lawyer and rabbi, formed the Jewish Defense League (JDL), a militant group that promoted Jewish vigilantism and urged American Jews to arm themselves under the slogan "every Jew a .22." Putatively organized to combat African-American anti-Semitism, the JDL went on to target the offices and representatives of Soviet-bloc nations, the Palestine Liberation Organization, Arab states, and Jewish organizations it saw as moderate.
When did Meir Kahane form Kach?
In 1971, after he emigrated to Israel. Kach brought Kahane's Jewish-power philosophy to the Israeli scene and endorsed the idea of using "terror against terror," which Kahane represented by the Hebrew acronym TNT. Kahane advocated the formation of a "worldwide Jewish anti-terror group" that would be "organized and aided in exactly the same way as the terrorists are aided by the Arab governments." Kach also organized protests against the Israeli government and ran candidates for local and national office. Kach won several seats on the city council of the West Bank settlement Kiryat Arba. In 1984, Kahane was elected to the Knesset, Israel's parliament.
Is Kach still represented in the Israeli parliament?
No. In 1985, Israel amended its election laws to disqualify parties that oppose democracy and incite racism. Kach was banned from subsequent elections.
When did Meir Kahane die?
In November 1990. While speaking to followers at a New York hotel, Kahane was shot and killed. El-Sayyid Nosair, an Egyptian Islamist who has been linked to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing plot, was convicted on weapons charges in connection with Kahane's killing.
How did Kahane Chai form?
Amid squabbling that arose in Kach after Kahane's death, Kahane's son Binyamin claimed his father's mantle by becoming the leader of a splinter group called Kahane Chai. In December 2000, Binyamin Kahane and his wife were killed by Palestinian gunmen in a drive-by shooting on the West Bank. (The killers seem to have been targeting settlers in general, not the Kahanes in particular; a Palestinian militant arrested in connection with the shooting said it was "luck" that they killed Binyamin Kahane.) The differences between Kach and Kahane Chai-which revolve around personal conflicts, not ideology-have eroded since Binyamin Kahane's death, experts say.
Was Kach or Kahane Chai involved in the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin?
Not directly. Yigal Amir, who assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995, was not a member of Kach or Kahane Chai. However, the assassin interacted with many Kahanists within Israel's radical right and had contacts with a far-right Israeli group that is another offshoot of Kach. Binyamin Kahane would not condemn Rabin's murder and said that "a person could understand Amir."
Do Kach and Kahane Chai have supporters in the United States?
Yes. The State Department's designation of the two groups as foreign terrorist organizations makes it illegal for Americans to fund them; nonetheless, U.S. officials suspect that Kach and Kahane Chai receive money from sympathizers in the United States and Europe. In January 2001, the FBI raided the headquarters of a Brooklyn group that maintains a Kahanist Web site in search of documents linking them with Kach or Kahane Chai. Some of Meir Kahane's former associates remain active in the United States; in December 2001, two JDL leaders in California were charged with planning bomb attacks on a mosque, a Muslim advocacy organization, and the offices of an Arab-American congressman.
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
I really don't think most Americans understand the desperation and despair the Palestinians feel. Things most of us take for granted, like clean water and clear citzenship.....and basic rights, really do not exist for Palestinians.
I don't want to get in the whole debate, but I have certainly see the other side of the septic tank, and it's not pretty.