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Need help with possible business decision
Big Sky Redneck
Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
I don't have all the details yet and I'm a little hesitant to ask but here it is. Not far from me is a gunsmith/gun sales business that is for sale. It has just about everything one would need to operate a 'smithing business and sell guns. Right now it is in a rented building and the shop can stay if wanted.
Here is the problem, the owner is selling because it is apperant that he tried to make a living off of it and didn't do well. I would want it more for a hobby, as long as I could make enough money off of it to pay for it I would be happy, for now. I have no business knowledge, none. I also have very very minimal knowledge of gunsmithing meaning I would have to attend classes before working on somebody elses gun, this may take awhile. If I could do this I would just erect a building on my property and operate out of it.
Can the FFL be transfered or do I have to apply for a new one?
Would it be worth it as a hobby? There is always gunbroker to sell guns for me during the week while I go to work[:D]
What all would I need to do besides go to school for gunsmithing and get new/transfer licenses?
If I get the details as in sale price where could I compare the costs of the machinery to buy it seperate?
Would I be better off to just start a gun shop from scratch and then go to school so I can later add the 'smithing shop?
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.
Here is the problem, the owner is selling because it is apperant that he tried to make a living off of it and didn't do well. I would want it more for a hobby, as long as I could make enough money off of it to pay for it I would be happy, for now. I have no business knowledge, none. I also have very very minimal knowledge of gunsmithing meaning I would have to attend classes before working on somebody elses gun, this may take awhile. If I could do this I would just erect a building on my property and operate out of it.
Can the FFL be transfered or do I have to apply for a new one?
Would it be worth it as a hobby? There is always gunbroker to sell guns for me during the week while I go to work[:D]
What all would I need to do besides go to school for gunsmithing and get new/transfer licenses?
If I get the details as in sale price where could I compare the costs of the machinery to buy it seperate?
Would I be better off to just start a gun shop from scratch and then go to school so I can later add the 'smithing shop?
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.
Comments
Location, location location.
Forget the smithing angle for now. The rent is due on the first, even for a hobby.
Them ducks is wary.
Before you take your first step you'll have to find out why the shop's first owner failed. Was he a bad business man, in a bad location, or was there simply no market in the area? You might be a better business man, but if the shops location stinks and there are no customers any where near the store, a Walmart two blocks away, or three other gun shops within a mile radius, you are going to be in trouble no matter who's running the operation. If you have no practical business knowledge you are going to be in over your head pretty quickly. How much do you REALLY know and understand about firearms? Here on Gun Broker do you tend to ask questions or do you provide detailed answers (I mean JudgeColt or ICCONOCLAST type posts) to other peoples gun questions? Unless your shop is going to sell only to what you like, you'd better have a BROAD range of firearms knowledge!
As far as transfering the FFL is concerned; you can check with Ronnie Perkins (a hero to at least a few on these boards) on how important taking care of that issue is! You will need a new FFL in your own name and CANNOT continue to use the current FFL for ANY transactions what so ever-- that license ends when the old owner sells out to you. If you are simply taking over the exisiting business then you also take over the exisitng firearms records as well and these will not have to be sent into the BATFE. If you are relocating the business to a new location then everything begins at ground zero; all the records have to be sent into the BATFE and you start from square one.
If you are serious about learning the gun business then I suggest that you get a part time job at a PROFITABLE (if such a store even exisits) gun store and learn the ropes like I did 25 years ago. The money won't be much to start with, but you can consider your part time job a hobby and you'll get a chance to see how everything works in this business first hand and it won't be your money spent on this education, it will be the shops owner paying for you to learn!
Mark T. Christian
Sounds great!BUT,without business knowledge and
minimal 'smithing knowledge,You'd better get into
it mighty cheap and have a gun loving banker if
you hope to be able to make a go of it.Is the current
owner a good 'smith?If so,why can't he make it?
Too much overhead? Not enough business?Not a good
businessman?Think about it.Why hasn't he made a go of it?
As far as the permits and stuff goes,I don't think any of that
will be transferable,but I may be wrong.$$$$$$$$$
7mm,
Please don't get me wrong.I'm certainly not trying to discourage
you from fulfilling your dream,but for starters,I'd build that little shop at the house.Then,like Joey suggested,hang around(or work for)
those "in the know" until you feel comfortable being on your own.
Who knows,maybe some of those folks that helped you learn will
will be more than glad to hang around and help you out.Just a thought.
IT'S WHAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THEMSELVES THAT MAKES THEM AFRAID.
I ran a small business for 14 yrs until May 03. Now I am the landlord and probably make more money .
mag
That's his retirement project, he drives a new truck, helps teach firearms safety classes at the local fire department, and lives very well. He sells no SKS's, no Ak's, no AR15's....he's an old boy and cater's to the people.
Depending on your location, you could follow his success. If you live in some foreign land like Kaliforny, you can not do it on your own. You will need to hire a lawyer, somebody to watch your back and ensure you cross your T's and dot your I's....otherwise the State will tear you and your retirement apart in the name of public safety.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
Pete (the retired banker)
"Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live"
Most business don't make a dime profit the first year.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
I just got in from my nightly trip. I don't want to sound negative but what Mark C said is the absolute best advice you are going to get, period!!! Second best post that I have read is by PJ.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY
or pawn shops. (excuse the lanuage)..
Mark C. & PJ hit it on the head.
Expect to work 14-18 hrs days, 6days week, maybe 7days..
Location,location, is prime concern.
Then the overhead likes of fixtures, racks, cases, safes, alarms, security, insurance, FICA/payroll taxes, ATF logs, tax reports, computers, phone, advertising, is also the killer of time and lots of money.
Investigate and think about all the down sides first before leaping.
Walte
Is this guy trying to sell his and then open another location? Is he trying to give someone else his debts and bad location and is planning to go 10 blocks down and open a new store? you hope not, you don't think so. you better know, that happens all the time.
case in point: local landscape company owner is having bad problems, he wants to sell his buisness, wants 300K, that buys the land, shop, buisness name, inventory. funny part is, he wants to keep all the equipment, and trucks. he stopped buying any inventory early this year, so nothings left. the location is about 3 miles outside town, away from everything. Sound the same as your guy? this one says he's getting out, done, tired. I have my doubts. besides, if he is quiting, thats one less competetor I need deal with, so why do I want his debts? why would you?
If this guy is the only one in town, or in the area, drop it. if he's going out he's taking the competition with him. start up your own if you're really interested. you want to keep costs down for a few years, run on a shoestring budget if you will. it can be done, you don't need large capital, or anything else. I started my 2 companies with less than $500 in my pocket, and quit my full time job at the same time. sink or swim. I am not rich, but will be in about one more year provided the growth curve remains constant, or even drops a little. If you are not going to try to make a great living at least, don't even start, you will only be the lowest paid hardest worked employee in the shop. you will burn out very quickly.
Also remember- workers comp laws have changed. Now if you have one employee, even part time, or if you make a profit, however small,you are required to have WC. you must show profit, otherwise the govt will pull your tax id # and possibly your FFL, those are not issued for hobbies, but buisnesses. the good part of WC is now you can cover yourself with it, kinda like cheap health insurance.
unemployment taxes, fed, state, local and city taxes along with any buisnesses licenses are a must also, and insurance, an alarm system pus monitoring unless you are sleeping in the shop. its a big decision, but do-able.
if you have any questions, you can email me through the message boards, or at begleytree@adelphia.net buisness is buisness wether you are selling comic books or space shuttles.
-Ralph
In the demonstable absence of evolutionary perfection, if some calamity is not to occur, we shall have to learn to live with ourselves as we are. Fast. -Tattersall
There has been some very good advise here, but there is something else that I would like to add. First of all, I am just begining the process of opening a gun store myself, so I cannot offer much in the way of advise on this specific issue, but here is what I'd like to say: If you don't shoot for the stars, you will never leave the ground. Simply put, do not let someone discourage you or convince you not to do something that you really believe you want to do. If every sucessful businessman out there listened to all of the negative and discouraging advise he received, There would be NO successful businesses. Go for your dreams man. I have owned several sucessful companies that I started with almost no money. You can do it, if you really want it...just make sure it is something that you really love to do. If you have a passion for what you are doing, it can pull you through some very tough times...where you might not have made it, if you didn't really love it. Good luck!
Eric
I spent my first five years learning this business in a major gun shop here in Southern California and when I went out on my own I thought that I was more than ready. I thought that I knew everything there was to know about firearms. I thought I knew how to sell them. I thought that good guns would simply sell themselves. I thought that the old shop customers would be my new customers. I thought I had more than enough cash saved up to cover my expenses for at least a year. I thought WRONG! Although things have turned out very well for me, the first couple of years were near disasters (okay, they were real disasters) and I was able to dedicate ALL of my time (I mean EVERY SINGLE MINUTE!) to my new business and the very thought of doing what I had to do on a part time is out of the question! At the same time I was starting my gun business a close friend of mine was just starting his own computer business and having all of the same nightmares that I was having. He also made his business a success and he is now RICH. I'm not rich...but then I never wanted to be. If someone really wants to do this type of thing and can't quit his present full time job, then I suggest he waits until he retires.
Mark T. Christian
Eric
He is selling the business because he cannot make a living off of it. One mistake I see is he is using a rented store front, two he is ssslllooowww, took him 3 weeks to recrown a barrel for me[:(!]
If I was to do this the price would have to be in the range that I could pay for it with my other job for now. I see the eqipment as something that is valuble and if can be left sit till I learn how to use it would be something useable in the future. I can buiy a nice building for cheap and place it in my yard, I have a big yard[:D] I want a sporting goods store of my own but it will take time, I feel if I start out small I can slowly build it up to where I can eventually let go of the truck driving and run it full time. The area here is laid back, we only have 4 stores in the county, no good reloading stores, one thing I wish to focus on. There are many variables I need to check into and this may not be feasable right now, it is just a dream and I was hoping maybe I could cash in on his missfortune.
Maybe later but I have to atleast see what he wants for it.
Thanks again folks!
Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.
first, before you even think of working on a gun you don't own.
Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.