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GB Member Down--Will You Help?

faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2003 in General Discussion
Kindly read this discussion, currently running
on the GUN RIGHTS BOARD....

Mr Perkins needs our help.

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39552

Comments

  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    faldum:

    I read the whole thing, believe it or not, and I think he's where he belongs. Just my opinion.

    Clouder..
  • jujujuju Member Posts: 6,321
    edited November -1
    I agree with 'Clouder

    JuJu (more to this than is being said)
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,529 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    X-ring Whiteclouder, I wouldn't touch this with an 11 foot pole.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It sounds as if he were running a gun shop without an ffl. I can see where the BATF might see that as a problem. Set him up with a rifle shipped through a common carrier? I doubt that, the records would show who/where it came from.

    My heros have always killed cowboys.
  • Urassn9Urassn9 Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    read like a case of visions of grandeur & self-destruction. [:p]
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think BATF did their job. From his attitude,my impression is that most of his business dealings were probably borderline, and this time got caught.Bob

    Gun control is a steady hand
  • faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Absent any serious previous disciplinary sanctions
    and assuming he applied for a renewal in a timely
    manner, it should be asked why the application was
    not processed in an expedient manner.
    Mr. Perkins had (during the re-application period)
    requested permission to legally transfer his stock
    to another dealer.
    He stated he was also repeatedly given verbal re-assurances
    that "everything was going OK" when the renewal process
    was dragging on.
    I quess I am a bit uncomfortable with the brevity of
    the time frame between when sworn testimony was given to the
    magistrate and the "mystery package" delivery and seizure.
    Many GB members might be well served to take note of the
    sentencing judge's attitude on "assault weapons."
    Mr. Perkins swears he did not request or pay for the
    "mystery package" which is presumed to be some sort of
    "assault weapon."
    This seems to be the most disturbing part of this incident.

    At this point, blunt, in your face-type questions (like one could expect on cross examination by a good attorney) are desperately
    solicited.

    Having read Mr. Perkins' web page and many local news accounts
    of his political activities, a gut feeling tells me there is
    more to this story than meets the eye.
    He appeared much too knowledgeable to knowingly let something
    like this get over on him through normal, law-abiding means.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I am disturbed by the "mystery package" that according to all accounts was never identified as to who sent it. If that is the case, then something is very, very wrong with at least that part of the situation. And, IF TRUE, is a template of how the ATFE could setup any gun owner or dealer. I am also bothered by the judge's statement that something as desperately needed by an old sickly man, Ronie Perkins, needing probation, the judge ruled out even thinking about it because this case involved an "semiautomatic assualt weapon". Folks, until Hand Gun Control Inc., with the help of Josh Sugarman and Pres. Bill Klinton came up with the idea, "semiautomatic rifles" werre never classed the same as the "fully automatic rifles" used by the military. The anti-gunners were very, very smart in what they did by"demonizing" semiautomatic rifles that looked "scary" but only shot the same bullet only as far and only as fast as a pump rifle or even a revolver. The thing we need to worry about is that now the anti-gunners are not only trying to demonize many more, if not all, guns but even gun owners. For these reasons we should pay attention to cases like the Ronnie Perkins case because it might, just might, give us some idea of what to expect in the future.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    faldum: I think I have some info for you and would like to e-mail it.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I wondered just why more did not seem concerned.I agree folks on the face their seems to be some problems with Ronnies side.BUT,I feel strongly that there is also more here than meets the eye...Ronnies attitude should NOT be on trial,nor should assualt weapons,semi auto rifles or whatever.I would think that WE might ALL try to get AS Much info As possible before sitting in judgement of one of our own.I would hope that if ANY of us were in a jam such as this we would want,the rest to look into it.What do we have to lose?If you are right ,then so be it....we lose but time and it is about guns,and gun control as well as ronnie,what he did or did not do etc.It seems that most of you whom have said from time to time that the media lies like sin,suddenly believe everything they have to say.Give him the benifet of the doubt and lets see where it goes,c'mon I would think that we would ALL expect the same no? Just my 2 folks......L.H.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Longhunter, there is no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but I just read what Ronnie had to say, and was unconvinced that was the whole story.

    My heros have always killed cowboys.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I am not convinced either hedog....and my eyes are open.I just think that were any of us in a similar situation we would hope that our gun buddies would at least look into it.There is a lot of it that just doesn't seem right....and we've not much to lose but a bit of time at this point....
  • faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The three articles published by the Georgetown
    News Graphic appeared to be somewhat sympathetic
    to Mr. Perkins, whose name is quite familiar
    due to his often probing letters to the editor
    and political aspirations
    The typical "evil firearm" paranoia is refreshingly absent.
    One reporter even takes a subtle poke at Mr. Perkins'
    lawyer.
    In one of his prior posts, Mr. Perkins makes reference to
    one of the witnesses giving false testimony.
    If proven, a retrial (or dismissal of charges) should be
    immediately ordered.
  • faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • BlackieBoogerBlackieBooger Member Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Personally, I think the country would be better off without the ATF and John Ashcroft no matter who is right or wrong on what happened to Perkin.

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
    Benjamin Franklin, 1785
    123div.gif
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Truly amazing how one can pick out the sheep,peacefully grazing grass..and the sheepdogs,moving the herds ever closer to the cliff..doing the bidding of their masters...no thought,no ability to change....

    and a few mavericks,refusing to blend with the herd..talking futiley about freedom,the Constitution..all that stuff that is meaningless anymore...

    The things history is made of..the ending of the greatest nation on earth..doomed to end by those unwilling to break the mind-chains placed on them by their intellectial superiors....



    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    highball: well said

    longhunter: well said

    faldum: well said and great timing.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    I hope he rots!!
    Who does he think he is anyway??
    An AMERICAN???
    Surely he didn't think the words "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" had any real meaning!!
    It's painfully apparent that they don't on THIS forum!!
    If he'd just stuck to hunting deer and ducks he wouldn't even NEED an FFL.
    That's a good point!
    Who really NEEDS an FFL anyway??
    Private citizens dealing in firearms??
    How can we keep the children truly safe when we allow that sort of EXTREMIST activity?
    Only the government and our "public servants" should be allowed to have guns!!




    So, if the BATF says he's bad then that's just good enough for some here at gunbroker huh??
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Stanman;

    Now you get the gist of it,bud.....

    And I used to spend time wondering how in the world Hitler took over a nation of supposedly intelligent adults...

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    There is more to this than is being told. I live within 45 minutes of Georgetown,KY and some members of our BP club live there. I have asked them about this and it seems that this gentleman had a partner who basicly wanted out. Once the partner went his own way the FFLs were no longer valid but according to my friends this gentleman continued to sell firearms. He did apply for a new FFL in his own name but did not wait for it to come through yet sold on the old FFL which was not valid. Now one of my friends at Georgetown knows several of the LEOs in the area and that is what he learned from them. In my opinion this gentleman did break the law. I personally have no symphony for him. This makes it hard on those that are legitimate FFL holders. My fathers FFLs are in his and his wifes names and if he or she were to die then they could operate until they get the FFL changed but if they divorced then the FFLs would no longer be valid if one of them contacted the BATF telling them they were no longer connected to the business. That is how I read the rules. In that case my father would have to STOP selling guns until his new FFLs came in or vice versa for my step mother. I may be wrong as to the rules but that is as I read them.
  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    The story seems quite suspicious to me but that's just my humble opinion.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    jj,So I guess the timing would be an issue.......According to him they were dragging their feet on the ffl for months...at least thats the impression I got.Do they have the right to put him out of business by doing this?Also perhaps if you r in that area you might look into how outspoken about the local poloticians etc. he was .Check his websight.....that is self evident there, a man with enemies,because he DARES to defey the system,and speak his mind.A horid thing...All I am saying is lets see if it ALL adds up.I thank you for your contribution,and am sure others are looking into it.Faldum?tr?I can't do a lot from here guys....and I'm not excactly computer literate...tho learning...L.H.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    How come everyone who wants to think so highly of the government and automatically blame Ronnie chose to ignore the posting, at the link faldum gave at the start of this topic, by CarneysGunshop on 3-10-03 and the faldum interesting parallel on 8-20-03. There are names, dates and places listed for you tdo consider the story. Those stories, if true, should give you some worry and they ARE NOT EVEN ABOUT RONNIE PERKINS!

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Well said fox...However they do apply to them.....so it is true...the antis have known all along....[V]
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Let's just try and reason about this situation for a minute.

    #1. Is it possible some members of a US Govt. agency (BATE, FBI, etc) could seriously violate some innocent citizens rights? I think every reasonable person would agree it is at least possible they could.

    #2. WOULD they actually do it? That part is being debated. But knowing human nature I feel confident that there have been intentional and serious violations somewhere sometime. And keep in mind I have recently worked with at least one federal agent.

    #3. Do I or any of the people here have iron-clad, absolute proof, beyond a doubt, that there have been violations? Of course not! If we had such proof the debate would now be about what are we going to do about it. The debate would no longer be about whether or not it actually happend. But to be exact there will always be a few people who refuse to believe their government would turn on them, to the point that even if it happened to their own mother, they would refuse to believe it happened. Instead they would blame their mother for what happened.

    #4. If a govt. agency did on occassion violate an innocent citizen's rights is it likely it would be done often and in a widespread manner? Of course not! If it was then see #3. Most of us would know and believe it was actually happening and would try and do something about it.

    #5. So it appears to me from a reasonable stand point, that the BATE, for just one example, could violate the law occassionaly and even if the story about this violation was circulated among the public, most of the public would refuse to believe it. That could be, just could be, what is happening right here and now. Because remember, there are not just one, but several stories of such violations and they are not muddled with only partial names or locations or dates. ALL the information is avilable in the event anyone wants to check into it and prove it wrong instead of just having an opinion it is wrong.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    I do know that the BATF is cracking down fairly hard in that area. A friend of mine runs an ammo shop here in tthe town nearf me. He also worked part time and sold ammo at the Georgetown Flea Market. He sold a 22 rifle for a friend to an ATF agent but told hime it was not his rather a friends. He started his ammo shop a year or 2 later in Carlisle but when he applied for his FFLs the 22 came back to haunt him. He was denied. The gentleman and his ex-partner from Georgetown that the thread is about also sold at the Flea Market. They had a booth inside and as far as I know all was legit but being that the ATF did catch several at the Flea Market selling to some they should not or not having FFLs also lends me to believe there is more to this than is being told. I am far from on the BATFs side in this matter but if there is more that we do not know then maybe the ATF could be justified. The only ones who know the WHOLE truth are the 2 gentleman who ran the business and the BATF. Whether or not one or both are telling the truth only they know for sure.

    Longhunter you could be right because I know how "good ol boy politicks" works here in KY. Also Georgetown Ky is mostly run by Toyota Manufacturing. It is their own little "company town" so to speak. Toyota is very anti-gun.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I have a question of reason which I hope some of you (anybody) will try to answer for me.

    We have two sides on this topic. One side, to varying degrees, thinks the ATFE (and all govt. agencies) would never, never violate an honest citizen's rights. The other side thinks that the ATFE (and other agencies) have already and continue to on occassion seriously violate innocent citizens rights. Now here is the interesting fact I have noticed and I truly would like some comments and feedback to help me.

    It seems all the believers in no violations by a govt. agency provide limited "evidence" such as statements like "I have been a FFL dealer for 20 years and the BATFE has treated me great" or "Do you really think the BATFE has time to sit around and think of ways to violate citizens rights?" Now here is the part that interests me.

    People like ForGodAndCountry and Faldum post actual names, dates, places, govt. agency involved and the actions that took place in which they claim there were williful and evil violations by the ATFE (and other agencies). I would assume a non-believer in govt. misconduct could investigate this information and truly determine if the outrageous acts were true. But none of the "non-believers" have done this to my knowledge. Is this a conflict in reason or not? Just asking.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Tr,You'll not get an answer I would bet. If they investigated and found it to be true,their illusions would be shattered,If they investigated and it were not true,they would lose nothing.....I would like F.S. to use logic here but.....I believe the underlying problem of at least some could be Fear,others...simple indifference.......
  • RhondaRhonda Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The "mystery" package has been a common way for dishonest business concerns to traffic drugs for years. The package is "misaddressed" intentionally but close enough so that any good carrier will manage to deliver it to the intended recipient. On a good day if everything goes according to plan the bad guy gots his drugs. If he got busted, his defense is "I don't know anything about that package and it isn't even addressed to me".
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