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US Troops Using Confiscated Iraqi AK-47s

BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
edited September 2003 in General Discussion
Middle East - AP

U.S. Troops Use Confiscated Iraqi AK-47s
Sun Aug 24, 2:15 PM ET

By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press Writer

BAQOUBA, Iraq - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.

Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.

U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them.

The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. But they are short on rifles.

A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tank's firepower for protection.

But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential.

"We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers. So in certain circumstances we allow soldiers to have an AK-47. They have to demonstrate some proficiency with the weapon ... demonstrate an ability to use it," said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.

"Normally an armor battalion is fighting from its tanks. Well, we are not fighting from our tanks right now," Young said. "We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, there's no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged."

In Humvees, on tanks - but never openly on base - U.S. soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world.

The AK is favored by many of the world's fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently.

Now U.S. troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use - and they like what they see.

Some complain that standard U.S. military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraq's dusty environment. Many say the AK has better "knockdown" power and can kill with fewer shots.

"The kind of war we are in now ... you want to be able to stop the enemy quick," said Sgt. 1st Class Tracy S. McCarson of Newport News, Va., an army scout, who carries an AK in his Humvee.

Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has "some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons," McCarson said.

Most U.S. soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 - a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s - is better for long distance, precision shooting.

But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Or they are raiding houses, taking on enemies at close-quarters.

Two weeks ago, Sgt. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. It was dark, the road narrow. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass.

Bailey, who couldn't see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. The choice was simple.

"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.

Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK - they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.

"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.

Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."

Staff Sgt. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when he's out of his tank.

And the AK's durability has impressed him.

"They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work," Perez said.

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Comments

  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldnt care if you took an AK, ran over it with a hundred tanks in mud then picked it up and fired a single round that dropped a cape buffalo at 1000 yards, I still wouldnt want one. My pride runs way too deep. I would throw rocks at the enemy before fighting with a commie gun.

    Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.
  • madmarc0madmarc0 Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gimme ANY gun to protect my 6 and my fellow troops.

    I don't care if it came from a commie or someones grandma.

    Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has!
  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Me thinks you would change your tune in a heart beat 7MM if you were put in the right situation.
  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    A weapon is just a tool of the trade. We use many tools. We choose the right tool for the job. AK, AR, F18, Arty, what ever it takes to get the job done. My 2 cents [8D]

    Greg
  • 0311marine0311marine Member Posts: 3,233
    edited November -1
    i'll stick to my m40 or m82a1.but if i was riding on a convoy i might pick one up since my spotter and security carry m203's .and i carry a m9 for close range.

    sspic.jpgPistol-01.gif
    SEMPER FI
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxon, nope, not all are issued rifles. Hubbie has a sidearm and he's not even in an armor or artillery unit. And yes, when the tank or APC goes tango uniform, everyone becomes a ground pounder.

    ***KATN!***
  • pack rat633pack rat633 Member Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't believe if our toops needed rifles, they would not be issued them!! Be that as it may, if they pick up AKs and use them, that's a time honored solider's perogitive. We've been using the enimeies arms against them from the time of the Revolution up to now. Get on with your life!!

    SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SaxonPig;
    I agree. The distinctive sound, drawing friendly fire, is the first thought that came to mind.

    Whatever spits lead in a pinch, works for me.

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was driving through the reservation the other night and heard the distinctive sound of an AK-47 just after I passed the location where it began firing. Then there were sounds of sirens after I turned around to leave that place. It certainly is a distinct sound but I would rely on one in a heartbeat if it was all I had--friendly fire be damned.
  • ElMuertoMonkeyElMuertoMonkey Member Posts: 12,898
    edited November -1
    An AK or a rock? Well, given that a rock has less range, less penetrating power, and jams more often, I'll go with the AK.[:D]
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe the military needs to go back to the .308 round. Since "Blackhawk Down" I've worried about our troops carrying rifles underpowered for the task at hand.
  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,637 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ryan,

    Have you heard of this?


    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
  • Smokeeater 38Smokeeater 38 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    Saxon, when I was in the Guard I was in a mortar platoon. The gunner and assistant-gunner both carried pistols. The rest of the platoon had M16's, no M203's or M60's however. It is all determined by what you job is as to what you carry.





    Get the job done and come home safe guys.

    I rush in where others flee.
  • warcrobwarcrob Member Posts: 358 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    According to the article I read about in the American Rifleman a few months back, it seems that the military has already realized this. The M14 has been pulled from mothballs and many have been re-isseud to some of the troops serving in Afganistan. Apparntly the 223 does'nt have the poop to make long range shots! Imagine that!

    If you ain't got a sense of humor you got no business bein here!
  • bolthandlebolthandle Member Posts: 1,213 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it works..........use it.

    Bolt

    PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In Nam,our special forces regularly used the AK-47 for special ops. That trademark chatter of the AK=47 helped keep them from being identified by enemy troops as well as it firing whenever the trigger was pulled,in mud,rain, even sand. I'm not so sure I believe that the .223 doesn't have the poop to make long range shots,The AR-15 is supremely more accurate at longer distances than the AK-47. However the knockdown power of the .223 hardball may be reason for concern,at longer distances bullet fragmentation decreases. With all the advances in technology in expansion of hollowpoints and in ballistics you have to wonder why we are sticking to that treaty.it is not like our enemys are abiding by it.

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878<P>
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jeff,
    This is the Army thing to do, not the Marines. We bring enough artillery and weapons to drop the ship another inch in the water. If our troops are going to be called upon to do another mission, they are armed with weapons appropriate to the mission, from my knowledge. I personally would not put a tank commander and his crew into a street sweeping scenario. If they were killed then the tank is also rendered useless. That just doesnt make sense. A shortage of weapons the Corps does not have.[:D] We might run low on water now and then, but not weapons or bullets.[8D]

    marinesega2.jpg
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I'll take my .308 FAL over the M-16 OR the AK-47.

    Lord Lowrider the Loquacious<BR>Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets <P><BR>She was only a fisherman's daughter,<BR>But when she saw my rod she reeled.<BR>
  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Everyone laughed when I said I couldn't qualify with the M-16 this year because we have no ammo in the states. I'm still waiting to shoot that bugger so I'd bet we are shipping alot of ammo overseas still.

    I think they should empty the California National Guard Armory and send all those evil M-16's to the boys in the desert. California doesn't need them.

    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nitrouz: Just take a short trip to any gun shop or Wal-mart. They have cases and cases of .223 waiting for you to buy, and it's cheap.
    So you're still waiting to shoot your M16? Get out of bed, dude.
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    They should use whatever is "field expedient" to get the job done.
    Don

    eng.JPG
    Welcome to America...Now speak English.
    ````````````````````````
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Government, not Walmart.

    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • 4godsako4godsako Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    G'Day All.........
    When we sent our SAS (Aussie) boys into ASSramistahn with you guys, the SAS refused to carry the standard issue Steyr F-88 in 5.56mm. (Made in the Lithgow small arms factory.NSW OZ...same place as the L-Enfield .303's turning up on your shores)
    We got out our mothballed M-14s , stuck some night vision gear atop them and 'bobs Ya Uncle'
    Trouble is.......I'd always assumed the M-14 was a 5.56mm , and not a 7.62mm...................Someone set me straight please!???[?][?][?](Oh!!....yes , the reason was they considered the Steyrs had too many glitches and probably not enough punch as a .30 calibre)
  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I really like the Australian military folk...too bad y'all lost your right to own guns.

    Met a Australian Air Force Officer that flew a C-130 to Guam. Helped unload his aircraft and was shocked...One pallet of gear....One pallet of beer...one paller of gear...one pallet of beer...Y'all stand by your Alcohol!



    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxon....sometimes you might just want to confuse the enemy as well with the sound of your weapons. During WWII my dad carried a Schmeisser MP-40 and had a Spandau mounted on his jeep. He felt it gave him and his troopers and edge; when the Germans initially heard them they thought they were getting friendly fire instead of American fire. They were careful not to use them in the vicinity of American soldiers. Beach
  • 4godsako4godsako Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nitrouz
    I really like the Australian military folk...too bad y'all lost your right to own guns.

    Met a Australian Air Force Officer that flew a C-130 to Guam. Helped unload his aircraft and was shocked...One pallet of gear....One pallet of beer...one paller of gear...one pallet of beer...Y'all stand by your Alcohol!



    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • 4godsako4godsako Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Geez you blokes really got the wrong info concerning us Aussies and guns.
    No Nitrouz, we didn't loose our guns. In 1996 some nutter went crazy in Tazzie and shot 36 (approx?) poeple and our conservative GUVmint banned semi auto rifles and pump action Shotguns.....All else goes including handguns. If you are lucky enough to have a farm (or even access to one) you can have the above mentioned guns.
    I think a few people in the U.S. like to use OZ as a 'worst case scenario' and that I understand.
    In a recent (pro-gun) organisation's survey of licenced gun owners world wide Australia was found to have a 11% of it's population armed. If you do the mathematics 11% of 16 million population puts more guns down-under than any other country. (calculated per-head of population based on overall percentage) And this is only the Legally/licenced statistics.
    Just so I don't ruin your day, The United States came 2nd with Canada taking the Bronze Medal in 3rd.
    P.S......Next time you feel the urge to travel......come on down as the game is plenty,beers COLD and the babes blondes.
    Cheers Mate..............4godsako.[;)]
  • nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I remember seeing an article about some girl getting shot with a crossbow in Australia and that they were going to ban those too?

    Is it so?

    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • 4godsako4godsako Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The crossbow thing was all a storm in a teacup..media got there teeth into some other bulderdash the falling day and alls forgotten now. I got thre of the buggers(2 American and one local made one)
    Cheers Guys![^]
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