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Discussion on Open Bolt Firearms

MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
edited May 2009 in General Discussion
What are the laws regarding open bolt firearms. I have seen talk about how they are outlawed, about how pre 82 open bolts are fine, BATF will be at your door if you own one etc etc.

I have looked for regulation and havn't been very succesful in finding the answers i am looking for. Any help appreciated.

Comments

  • calrugerfancalrugerfan Member Posts: 18,209
    edited November -1
    What is open bolt?
  • Saxon PigSaxon Pig Member Posts: 754 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ATF bans any gun that can be "readily converted to full auto" and that seems to include most semi autos that fire from an open bolt. They have ordered the end to production and importation of several guns. The ones sold before the action remain in private hands.
  • footlongfootlong Member Posts: 8,009
    edited November -1
    Pig- Do you have a list of those makes and models[?]
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The open bolt Mac 10 was a big one that was banned in 1982 I had one back then and sold it for about 350.00 I see them for sale now abouve 2000.00
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    An open bolt locks the bolt open with no round in the chamber and (usually) has a fixed firing pin on the bolt face.

    When the trigger is pulled, the bolt is released, stripping a fresh round from the mag and igniting the primer when the round chambers.

    On the recoil impulse, the bolt is shoved back into the open position, ready to go forward and repeat the cycle if the trigger continues to be depressed.

    The weight of the bolt and the recoil spring delay the cycle until the chamber pressure drops to a safe level, the bullet having exited the barrel by that time.

    Almost, if not all, blow-back operated firearms may be converted to open bolt full auto by very simple methods. It can also be done with just about any semi-auto, regardless of the operating method, but with more difficulty.

    Classic open bolt full auto weapons include the Thompson sub-machine gun, the M-3 Grease gun, and many com-bloc subguns.

    Downside is that the bolt is open when ready to fire and can get outside debris inside, rendering the weapon into a club.

    In my mis-spent yout, I converted several firearms to full-auto in less than an afternoon.

    Doug

    Doug
  • tapwatertapwater Member Posts: 10,335 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...A bit of knowledge and a dremel tool can bring
    tons of fun....or a trip to the slammer. I'm not
    sayin' nuttin' about my mis-spent youth....[}:)]
  • tapwatertapwater Member Posts: 10,335 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    An open bolt locks the bolt open with no round in the chamber and (usually) has a fixed firing pin on the bolt face.

    When the trigger is pulled, the bolt is released, stripping a fresh round from the mag and igniting the primer when the round chambers.

    On the recoil impulse, the bolt is shoved back into the open position, ready to go forward and repeat the cycle if the trigger is repeatedly depressed.

    The weight of the bolt and the recoil spring delay the cycle until the chamber pressure drops to a safe level, the bullet having exited the barrel by that time.

    Almost, if not all, blow-back operated firearms may be converted to open bolt full auto by very simple methods. It can also be done with just about any semi-auto, regardless of the operating method, but with more difficulty.

    Classic open bolt full auto weapons include the Thompson sub-machine gun, the M-3 Grease gun, and many com-bloc subguns.

    Downside is that the bolt is open when ready to fire and can get outside debris inside, rendering the weapon into a club.

    In my mis-spent yout, I converted several firearms to full-auto in less than an afternoon.

    Doug

    Doug


    Fixed it for ya, Doug.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MVP
    What are the laws regarding open bolt firearms. I have seen talk about how they are outlawed, about how pre 82 open bolts are fine, BATF will be at your door if you own one etc etc.

    I have looked for regulation and havn't been very succesful in finding the answers i am looking for. Any help appreciated.



    IIRC the open bolt MAC10's are like the FN FAL "G" series imported in the early 60's (which are sear cut and very easy to turn into a select-fire weapon), they are grandfathered, and so long as no one messes with them and tries to make them into an illegal MG, they are fine and legal
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    Thanks Tap.

    It requires just a little extra fiddlin' to convert an open-bolt firearm to full-auto.

    VERY illegal, though.

    But I've heard that there are a few pippll doin' it.

    ATTENTION WATCHERS:

    NOT ME

    Doug
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does this mean it is illegal only to manufactur open bolt firearms and is still legal to own them?
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    I'm pretty sure that's true, but don't rely on my word.

    Check with your local crack dealer.

    Doug
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No you can't make one, but yes you can still own one. Last year I sold a KG-9, the Intratech open bolt Tec-9. I still have an open bolt MAC that I put a 16 inch barrel and wire stock on. In .45, it's pretty quiet with the long barrel and surprisingly accurate.
    Open bolts are the best of both worlds for sheer fun and legality.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ATF ruling on open bolt firearms came down in early 1982, not long after their ruling which banned the use of M16 fire control parts in AR-15 type rifles. The named weapons in the open bolt rulings were the KG-9, SM10/SM11 (MACs) and certain semi automatic STEN guns which fired from an open bolt. This ruling basically ended the new manufacture and importation (rifles like the .22 Voere) open bolt firearms for retail sales unless they could be proven "tinker proof" to the ATF technical branch, which proved to be pretty much impossible and is why you see closed bolt MAC-10s and KG-99s. Existing guns were grandfathered and are legal to own if they have not been modified.
  • garand101garand101 Member Posts: 403 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Full auto wheellocks and flintlocks Doug? I mean....based on your age...they'd have to be [}:)]

    "In my mis-spent yout, I converted several firearms to full-auto in less than an afternoon."
  • storm6490storm6490 Member Posts: 8,010
    edited November -1
    Problems?

    Spray away with Cobray!

    Noting cooler than a dirty M-10.
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hello. i bought an open bolt kg-99. basically it was a tec-9 but open bolt. very very very easy to get full auto from it. i cant see how it would be considered modifying the gun, as all you had to do was put a piece of cardboard behind the trigger.

    you just had to find the right thick ness, so that it would catch the bolt when you let go of the trigger, but you couldnt pull the trigger all the way back there-fore the bolt would run free until you let go of the trigger.

    worked awesome! i would still have it, but after many many rds it finally grenaded. receiver broke as they usually do. if i ever get the chance, i will definately buy another just for the fun factor.
  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark
    Did you know they made a 20 round mag for the 22 Voere? That mag will cost well over a hundred bucks today if you can find them.
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by garand101
    Full auto wheellocks and flintlocks Doug? I mean....based on your age...they'd have to be [}:)]

    "In my mis-spent yout, I converted several firearms to full-auto in less than an afternoon."


    You are not a kind Man.

    Doug
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