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[xx(]We can't win!! Its hell if you do and hell if you don't!!!
If we chase them it our fault when they crash. If we don't chase them its our fault because we didn't try and stop them before they hurt someone.!!![V] The public and the courts need to come back to reality and support the good guys not the criminals. That said, I do beleive in calling off a chase if it clear that it is getting to dangerous to the officer or the others on the road, NOT THE BANDITS.
These young people decided to break the law and engage in behavior that could end their life and it did. THE DECISION WAS THEIRS, NO ONE ELSE IS RESPONSIBLE.[V]
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska
Classic & BR, I have nothing but the deepest respect for you and your opinions . . . but this time I believe you are very wrong. As I understand it, these kids, felons or not (depending on the definition of "borrowing" may be in this instance), were already driving at a grossly excessive rate of speed. They were not only endangering themselves, they were endangering any other motorist, bicyclist, pedestrian (of any age) they encountered. The LEO acted properly. It's a damn shame they died, but they made their choice, it was a bad one and their luck ran out . . . it is fortunate they took no other lives in doing so. Is a car worth seven lives? Even one life? Nope, not any car ever built! Are the lives of seven lawbreakers worth the life of a single law-abiding citizen? Again, nope.
Radio outrun a vehicle? Almost, but not always. I know of instances when it has not. I was the speeder in one of them (I did some pretty damn stupid things in my teens and early twenties and I was lucky not to be in a box myself once - and would have been if I had not been wearing a belt).
AS the story was told by the PRESS, it is evident that the Police Chased them, one witness even explained how the police passed them in excess of 80 mph. Nonetheless. I agree the kids were wrong, maybe if the police backed off, nothing would have happened, other posters have them robbing a 7/11, or killing someone, There are alternatives in every situation, and none of us being involved, we really dont know what transpired. But its still a shame that 7 lives were lost over a stolen car. I didnt condon the actions of the kids, nor the actions of the police, I just wondered if some other alternative was not at hand.
I to was a small town cop, knew every teenager in town, no need to chase em, just go and set in their living room with mom and dad till they got home.[:D]
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
I agree with clouder that not only SHOULD Dad be sued, but he almost certainly WILL be sued -- by the parents of the other kids in the car who had no control over the driver's poor driving. PS -- the tiny spare tire is not meant to be left on the car -- it is only designed to get you to the nearest safe place to fix the real tire without getting mugged on a dark highway. The idea of seven kids climbing into this car with the skinny spare still on it is irresponsible. No one should have let 7 kids pile into this car with that spare on it, let alone try to drive even as fast as the speed limit on it.
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
Now the news is out that the driver has been positively identified by several victims as having done a home invasion robbery with some of his buddies two hours before the crash. State police reviewing the in car video advised that the cop DID back off before the crash. He was so far back the crash was almost not visible on the video. My sympathy meter is taking a nose dive for these kids.
The only thing worse than lawbreakers, are lawmakers.
If they ran into one of my Family or friends and killed them while the Police were in pursuit I would feel that the Police should have not pursued them.
If they ran into one of my Family or Friends and killed them a few minutes after the Police gave up the pursuit,then I would certainly feel that the Police should have continued the pursuit.
Also wondering if maybe some of the Kid's at the time were pleading with the driver to stop.Sometimes innocent people get caught up in something that they would normally not have any part of.
Classic--How is it that you can be so swift to discount our response to the information currently available yet be equally quick to condemn the police based on that SAME information?
I'm still waiting for the "alternative" methods that the police could have used.
its a shame but the kids wouldn't have been dead if they wouldn't have "borrowed" the car they would have still been alive. its not the cops fault for chasing them.
as reported by the News and Observer in Raleigh, NC
The thugs in question committed a home invasion two hours prior to the crash. Assaulted a female by striking her in the head and stealing $270.00. Was armed with handguns. Stole a car. Had a flat tire. Decided to run 100 MPH on a donut spare. At least two of the suspects were wanted in regards to other armed home invasions in other parts of N.C.
Classic:
Considering that you made the following statement on another post:
"I for one dont want to wake up with one of em in my house, cause, ifn I get off a shot, He will be one dead intruder. Cause ifn he is in my house with me in it, I figure he intends to hurt me and mine."
I guess it's fair to assume that you are in favor of someone dieing if they have committed some act against you. But it is an outrage if conducted against someone else. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Still waiting for Blackroses.....to enlighten us.
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
Let's see if I have this right. The cop lit up his lights and and started after them he dropped out after 500 feet or so. The wrecked 1 mile later after reaching speeds in excess of 100 mph. Do the math at 100 miles per hour you would travel 1 mile in less than a minute.
60minute =3600 seconds divided by 100 =36 seconds .
Do you think it was to long of a chase or is it ok to let felons go if you can't catch them in less than a minute.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: And he that hath no sword,let him sell his garment, and buy one
Im thankful most of you see the right and wrong.Some of the kids could have pleaded for the driver to stop.The parents of these children are victims,but so is the LEO who was first on the scene and witnessed this trajic event.I agree with the statement guns dont kill people people kill people.Well I think in this cade its evidently clear what happened.And if the LEO did not give chase and they went on down the road and killed some ones family it would have also been the LEO's fault.
Well It all finally comes out. NO WHERE in the original post of copy and paste of the news did it say these kids were doing anything other than JOY RIDING, If they did indeed doo the other things LATER posted, and the whole story is there, it puts a bit of a different light on things.
Just like Paul Harvey "Now you have the rest of the Story"
Also In my post I made no statement condoning the actions of the kids, I merely ask a question,Was there no alterniative,, not knowing the whole story, untill way later in the discussion, I dont condon crime of any kind, but there are some circumstances where I think things may have been handled a little different, RUBY RIDGE, and WACO come to mind. I know that is comparing apples to oranges to a lot of you, but same principle, GET THE BAD GUY AT ALL COST
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
And no where on that car was a flashing neon sign displaying, "HARD CORE CRIMINALS HERE, O.K. TO CHASE US" That officer probably did not have all that information either. When he meets a reckless speeding vehicle on the highway; is it a driver late for work or a thug rapidly leaving a violent crime scene. That's his job to find out. The only way you can have an effective criminal justice system is to allow the officers the right pursue and apprehend law breakers while keeping the safety of the innocent public in mind.
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
If high speed chases are the answer, why have so many jurisdictions put a stop to them? Cause not just the PERP gets hurt, many times innocent people get hurt, I know COLLATERAL damage, just their bad luck being there when it happened.
Cant you get it? all I ask was, was there no alternative? Not condoning their actions, nor condemming the Police for what they did.
WAS THE AN ALTERNATIVE , to chasing them, could anything different be done.?
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
Classic: Alternatives? Not in Statesville. I live about 15 minutes from there. The cops have cars and that is about it, I suspect. And, the fathers attitude is not unusual for the area.
BTW, apparently you were a Peace Officer, not an LEO. Today, it generally doesn't work that way. Nobody knows or looks out for anybody in the city, as a general rule.
I showed this post to a friend last night, and his first response was "more trash off the street".
Me? I've seen chases all the time in Philadelphia. And once, I saw a brother SCREAMING down Chestnut in a $60K Caddy, weaving, and I know which chop shop he was headed to. I'll bet a few pics and a bust would have garnered a reward from various insurance companies...
Let's break this line of thought down to the nitty gritty.
Bob leaves his car unlocked. There is a county about 45 miles north of here were people leave their cars unlocked and OFTEN leave keys in the ignition or under the floor mat. Cars don't get stolen in that county. Anyways. Joe-The-Thug decides to steal Bob's car. Police give chase and Joe-The-Thug kills some innocent people when his car wrecks due to loss of control at high rates of speed. Shall we not hold Joe responsible for eluding in the first place? No. The cops should have just let him go since they didn't know Joe was a Thug and should have just presumed that he was an innocent choir boy. Wait a second. We shouldn't blame the police. We should blame Bob because he left his door unlocked. Yep, Bob left his car unlocked. He should have locked the doors and should have investied in a Club, a $1000 security system and maybe even a boot. Oh...wait a second. We should hold the car MANUFACTURER responsible. They should have been manufacturing SMART CARS that ONLY start when the owner and authorized operators are attempting to turn the key in the ignition.
Yep. We need to pass a law now. SMART CARS are the name of the game and someone needs to propose a bill. We already need to REGISTER our cars so why is this so far out-of-the-question? The technology already exists. They already scan my index finger whenever I want to cash a check at the grocery store. Joe-The-Thug and the innocent dead were just a victim of circumstance created by irresponsible car manufacturers anyways. Isn't it Government's job to protect us from ourselves anyways?
No, there is no alternative. Not that I am aware of anyway. If you know of one please let us know. As a matter of fact, anybody on this forum that may know of an alternative please post it. If you can come up with a legitimate effective way to apprehend fleeing criminals without any kind of chase; you will be a popular person.
Maybe the entire law enforcement community should enter into some kinda contract with the Psychic Friends Network. Then they will know ahead of time if the person is worthy of chasing and if anybody will be injured during that chase.
OOOOOhhhhh, I got it...... why doesn't the government install satelite micro chips in every person. That way the police will not have to chase you, but only track you. Thats it.... theres your alternative. Anybody up for that? Classic[?][?][?][?][?]
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
Whether it was worth seven lives for the police to recover this car is a moot point. News accounts of this incident that I read say they were just after a reckless vehicle that was weaving in and out of traffic at high speeds. It all went down so quickly that the LEO's didn't learn it was stolen until after the crash.
This is a tragedy from everyones prespective. I am disheartened that ANY board members are so cold and inhuman as to disregard seven young lives so easily.
These people were from Bugtussle NC. Country people who joy ride and go to swimming holes. No mention was made of them driving drunk, sticking up 7/11, or peddling crack.
1600 people in their town. How many mourners?
Cops do start high speed chases. They light on the blue bar.
I don't fault the cop, I don't fault the dad, the kids, or the car owner. The cop will go to his grave knowing his actions and part. The father has lost a child. The kids lost their lives. What more can or should you do to anyone involved with this?
The driver was stupid. The cop was bored. The father was asleep. Let the dead rest in peace. There's no winners here. Only sorrow.
If the late post about them being home invaders is true, well they did play big boy games, so the rules change. And they lost.
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour
I don't see the relevance of their home town, country living, swimming holes, population, or age. The cops did not start the chase. The criminal did. He decided he was above the law and refused to stop and began to flee. Unfortunatly the six other people in the car were vitims of their drivers actions not the LEO's.
And what's this, "the cop was bored stuff"? You know that for a fact? Or are you just putting your own spin on this? How do you know he wasn't on his way home?
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
quote:Originally posted by 3gunner
I don't see the relevance of their home town, country living, swimming holes, population, or age. The cops did not start the chase. The criminal did. He decided he was above the law and refused to stop and began to flee. Unfortunatly the six other people in the car were vitims of their drivers actions not the LEO's.
And what's this, "the cop was bored stuff"? You know that for a fact? Or are you just putting your own spin on this? How do you know he wasn't on his way home?
If you don't see the revelance, than I am probably wasting my time.
I don't know anything for a fact. None of us do. But given the information, I am intelligent enough to deduce a few things.
Reread the story. The story said this happened "early Monday" Now you think that was 7am? Or like most newspapers, "early Monday" means after midnight on a Sunday. Everyone has to go to work Monday, so in Trout Hole NC at 2 in the morning, you think the officer is:
A. Wired?
B. Bored?
C. Asleep?
If the revelance of the items you mentioned is lost on you, sorry, it's more than I can help with.
As far as the chase. It takes two to make a chase. Remove either one and it is no longer a chase. Did the blue lights come on before or after the kid accelerated?
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour
To all of those who think that the criminals should not be chased. Please pay for all damages that the criminals did and will do because they are not caught. I would rather see the criminals caught at all cost than let and criminal get away. If you don't like this feel free to start a fund to repay those who were raped, killed, robbed and such by criminals who got away because the police were not alowed to catch them.
I do not see where the officer has any blame for anything that happened here. Anyone who can see fault with his actions is really stretching the facts just to make their anti LEO point of view.
I can recall my first vehicle pursuit, it didn't last very long and I was so hyped up afterwards that I felt like I was on speed. It's a real adrenalin getter. I was too young back then to understand just how scared I was at the time. It was dark, the streets were busy, and everything happened so fast. Anything could have happened, but it ended successfully. The bad guy went to jail, and he was a teenager. Latter in my career I had several more pursuits, and with each one the stress level went up. I begin to hate them, and I feared being involved in one. I can recall one that a fellow officer & I got involved in around midnight one Friday morning. We had received a call that this guy had beaten his wife & kids in a domestic situation, and a BOLO had been put out on his vehicle. I just happened to be driving the county's pursuit vehicle that night. It was a hopped up Plymouth that would pin you to the seat when the gas pedal was floored. I observed the subjects car screech to a halt at a red light. This attracted my attention, and my fellow officer was coming up right behind him with his overhead lights on. I called in the pursuit to the local city we were in, and to the County Sheriff's department. This activated three other patrol cars into the chase. I was glad to be the last one in the line, but when the subject's car started pulling away from all the other patrol cars I was summoned to the front of the pack. By now we were on a two lane black top country road doing in excess of 100mph. There was no shoulder, and I had to pullout into the passing lane to get by the other four Patrol vehicles. Now I'm doing about 120mph, and "the telephone poles looked like a picket fence". Just as I got even with the first Patrol car, I started smelling an engine over heating, and then smoke filled the roadway in front of me. Thinking my partners car had just blown an engine I sped up ahead of him only to get oil sprayed all over my windshield. It was the subject's vehicle that had blown the engine, not a Patrol car. There I am in the lead doing 100+ mph with smoke & oil obstructing my view. All this while operating a radio and telling everyone else to back down their pursuit. The subject vehicle came to a halt at the entrance of a state park, and we were able to take him into custody without further incident. Everyone was patting me on the back, but I told my Captain that I didn't want to ever have to drive that car again. It scared the hell out of me. He didn't listen, and I'm glad he didn't, because just a few months later I was alerted to a robbery suspect who had robbed a Photo-Mat, and had injured the cashier by stabbing her with a knife. The same officer I was with before found this car first, and he immediately called me to come help him. By the time I got involved in this chase the bad guy had ran several people off the road, and had hit a few others. The road in which we were chasing him on was heading back into the city of Houston, and while I knew he would get stopped there by their department, he had to first go through a school zone in our jurisdiction, that was just a few miles up the road. School was letting out and the schooling crossing guards were already letting the children cross the street. We considered calling off the pursuit, but the bad guy didn't slow down when we did. It was then that I moved into the lead and did a pit maneuver on the bad guys car at 80 mph. Now this is not a recommended speed for doing such a thing, and was nothing but dangerous for both the bad guy and I. We were in a fairly well to do residential area, and the bad guys car slid sideways up into the lawn of a retired doctors home. The vehicle dug up the lawn, and came to a stop just feet from the front door of the of the doctors house. I thought I would get into trouble for this one, but I just wanted to end the chase. By the time I got turned around and came back to the scene, the bad guy was in cuffs, and the doctor was shaking everyone's hands for doing a great job. He came up to me, and I told him I was sorry about his lawn, and he said "Son, don't worry yourself. That's what the lawns keeper gets paid for. If he had made it into the house your guys wouldn't be arresting him." I didn't like pursuits, but this one I felt good about. You just don't know if anyone who runs from you is a felon or not. Armed with the information we had back then I have to wonder what some here would have done in the same sitaution?
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."<BR>(Proverbs 22:6)
i have always ben raised that all choices have consequences and here they certainly did. we dont hire police to look pretty in their cars and we expect that they will prevent drunk drivers from killing other people.he did what he was supposed to do and i find that jurisdictions that remove the ability to chase suspects are simply creating an incentive for them to be more likely to run.if i was going to the big house for assorted crimes i would certainly try to run if i knew they couldnt chase me, it would give me an out. yeah i knwo we are all law abiding so we pull over but thats like all the laws concerning legal gun ownership, only good for the law abiding.
as far as the other 6 kid in the car, parents have an obligation to teach their children how to live lif and to choose their friends wisely, it seems to me there was wholesale abdication of responsibility by the parents in this case. there was no understanding of consequences by anyone except the police officer who gave every opportunity for the car to come to a stop. sadly those kids paid the ultimate price for hanging with the wrong guy. LIFE IS NOT FAIR NOR WAS IT DESIGNED TO BE.
anyway aside from that and totally off topic.my wife and i had gone to montreal canada for one of her neices wedding and on tuesday we were coming back from canada and after a long wait at the border(2 1/2 hrs)i was in a hurry to get moving along and back downstate. near the town of moriah i had a blowout at about 80 mph on the right rear tire. the car did a 360 and headed toward the gaurdrail on the righti moved the steering wheel slghtly and and we headed tothe median. the car stopped just short of the edge of the embankment and i turned and asked my wife if she was ok. i have no idea how i stopped that car, i was lucky there were no vehicles heaed down behind me, and was only by the grace of god that i did not flip the car(it is a little honda prelude). the rim was cracked scraped and the rubber gone mostly and we were a bit shaken up. along comes a nys trooper who helped us take off the rim an put on the donut an told us where we might find a tire and wheel as it was getting a bit late. so i'd like to say thanks to god and ny state trooper woods.
Well, P3, I guess you are wasting you time then. I don't see how this situation would be any different if they were inner city kids that could only swim at the community pool.
It does take two to have a chase. However, if the LEO suddenly cuts the lights and slows down, you still have a reckless speeding criminal zooming down the road. You think the thug is going to resume the posted limit?
I just see alot of double standards here...
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
Comments
If we chase them it our fault when they crash. If we don't chase them its our fault because we didn't try and stop them before they hurt someone.!!![V] The public and the courts need to come back to reality and support the good guys not the criminals. That said, I do beleive in calling off a chase if it clear that it is getting to dangerous to the officer or the others on the road, NOT THE BANDITS.
These young people decided to break the law and engage in behavior that could end their life and it did. THE DECISION WAS THEIRS, NO ONE ELSE IS RESPONSIBLE.[V]
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska
Radio outrun a vehicle? Almost, but not always. I know of instances when it has not. I was the speeder in one of them (I did some pretty damn stupid things in my teens and early twenties and I was lucky not to be in a box myself once - and would have been if I had not been wearing a belt).
I to was a small town cop, knew every teenager in town, no need to chase em, just go and set in their living room with mom and dad till they got home.[:D]
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
The only thing worse than lawbreakers, are lawmakers.
If they ran into one of my Family or Friends and killed them a few minutes after the Police gave up the pursuit,then I would certainly feel that the Police should have continued the pursuit.
Also wondering if maybe some of the Kid's at the time were pleading with the driver to stop.Sometimes innocent people get caught up in something that they would normally not have any part of.
I am confused at times.
We park on driveways,
and drive on parkways.
I'm still waiting for the "alternative" methods that the police could have used.
Say hello to my little friend
as reported by the News and Observer in Raleigh, NC
The thugs in question committed a home invasion two hours prior to the crash. Assaulted a female by striking her in the head and stealing $270.00. Was armed with handguns. Stole a car. Had a flat tire. Decided to run 100 MPH on a donut spare. At least two of the suspects were wanted in regards to other armed home invasions in other parts of N.C.
Classic:
Considering that you made the following statement on another post:
"I for one dont want to wake up with one of em in my house, cause, ifn I get off a shot, He will be one dead intruder. Cause ifn he is in my house with me in it, I figure he intends to hurt me and mine."
I guess it's fair to assume that you are in favor of someone dieing if they have committed some act against you. But it is an outrage if conducted against someone else. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Still waiting for Blackroses.....to enlighten us.
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
60minute =3600 seconds divided by 100 =36 seconds .
Do you think it was to long of a chase or is it ok to let felons go if you can't catch them in less than a minute.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: And he that hath no sword,let him sell his garment, and buy one
Rugster
"Toujours Pret"
Just like Paul Harvey "Now you have the rest of the Story"
Also In my post I made no statement condoning the actions of the kids, I merely ask a question,Was there no alterniative,, not knowing the whole story, untill way later in the discussion, I dont condon crime of any kind, but there are some circumstances where I think things may have been handled a little different, RUBY RIDGE, and WACO come to mind. I know that is comparing apples to oranges to a lot of you, but same principle, GET THE BAD GUY AT ALL COST
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
Cant you get it? all I ask was, was there no alternative? Not condoning their actions, nor condemming the Police for what they did.
WAS THE AN ALTERNATIVE , to chasing them, could anything different be done.?
"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"
"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
BTW, apparently you were a Peace Officer, not an LEO. Today, it generally doesn't work that way. Nobody knows or looks out for anybody in the city, as a general rule.
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'
Me? I've seen chases all the time in Philadelphia. And once, I saw a brother SCREAMING down Chestnut in a $60K Caddy, weaving, and I know which chop shop he was headed to. I'll bet a few pics and a bust would have garnered a reward from various insurance companies...
Bob leaves his car unlocked. There is a county about 45 miles north of here were people leave their cars unlocked and OFTEN leave keys in the ignition or under the floor mat. Cars don't get stolen in that county. Anyways. Joe-The-Thug decides to steal Bob's car. Police give chase and Joe-The-Thug kills some innocent people when his car wrecks due to loss of control at high rates of speed. Shall we not hold Joe responsible for eluding in the first place? No. The cops should have just let him go since they didn't know Joe was a Thug and should have just presumed that he was an innocent choir boy. Wait a second. We shouldn't blame the police. We should blame Bob because he left his door unlocked. Yep, Bob left his car unlocked. He should have locked the doors and should have investied in a Club, a $1000 security system and maybe even a boot. Oh...wait a second. We should hold the car MANUFACTURER responsible. They should have been manufacturing SMART CARS that ONLY start when the owner and authorized operators are attempting to turn the key in the ignition.
Yep. We need to pass a law now. SMART CARS are the name of the game and someone needs to propose a bill. We already need to REGISTER our cars so why is this so far out-of-the-question? The technology already exists. They already scan my index finger whenever I want to cash a check at the grocery store. Joe-The-Thug and the innocent dead were just a victim of circumstance created by irresponsible car manufacturers anyways. Isn't it Government's job to protect us from ourselves anyways?
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'
No, there is no alternative. Not that I am aware of anyway. If you know of one please let us know. As a matter of fact, anybody on this forum that may know of an alternative please post it. If you can come up with a legitimate effective way to apprehend fleeing criminals without any kind of chase; you will be a popular person.
Maybe the entire law enforcement community should enter into some kinda contract with the Psychic Friends Network. Then they will know ahead of time if the person is worthy of chasing and if anybody will be injured during that chase.
OOOOOhhhhh, I got it...... why doesn't the government install satelite micro chips in every person. That way the police will not have to chase you, but only track you. Thats it.... theres your alternative. Anybody up for that? Classic[?][?][?][?][?]
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
These people were from Bugtussle NC. Country people who joy ride and go to swimming holes. No mention was made of them driving drunk, sticking up 7/11, or peddling crack.
1600 people in their town. How many mourners?
Cops do start high speed chases. They light on the blue bar.
I don't fault the cop, I don't fault the dad, the kids, or the car owner. The cop will go to his grave knowing his actions and part. The father has lost a child. The kids lost their lives. What more can or should you do to anyone involved with this?
The driver was stupid. The cop was bored. The father was asleep. Let the dead rest in peace. There's no winners here. Only sorrow.
If the late post about them being home invaders is true, well they did play big boy games, so the rules change. And they lost.
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour
And what's this, "the cop was bored stuff"? You know that for a fact? Or are you just putting your own spin on this? How do you know he wasn't on his way home?
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
I don't see the relevance of their home town, country living, swimming holes, population, or age. The cops did not start the chase. The criminal did. He decided he was above the law and refused to stop and began to flee. Unfortunatly the six other people in the car were vitims of their drivers actions not the LEO's.
And what's this, "the cop was bored stuff"? You know that for a fact? Or are you just putting your own spin on this? How do you know he wasn't on his way home?
If you don't see the revelance, than I am probably wasting my time.
I don't know anything for a fact. None of us do. But given the information, I am intelligent enough to deduce a few things.
Reread the story. The story said this happened "early Monday" Now you think that was 7am? Or like most newspapers, "early Monday" means after midnight on a Sunday. Everyone has to go to work Monday, so in Trout Hole NC at 2 in the morning, you think the officer is:
A. Wired?
B. Bored?
C. Asleep?
If the revelance of the items you mentioned is lost on you, sorry, it's more than I can help with.
As far as the chase. It takes two to make a chase. Remove either one and it is no longer a chase. Did the blue lights come on before or after the kid accelerated?
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour
Ray
More Powder, More Lead, More Dead
I can recall my first vehicle pursuit, it didn't last very long and I was so hyped up afterwards that I felt like I was on speed. It's a real adrenalin getter. I was too young back then to understand just how scared I was at the time. It was dark, the streets were busy, and everything happened so fast. Anything could have happened, but it ended successfully. The bad guy went to jail, and he was a teenager. Latter in my career I had several more pursuits, and with each one the stress level went up. I begin to hate them, and I feared being involved in one. I can recall one that a fellow officer & I got involved in around midnight one Friday morning. We had received a call that this guy had beaten his wife & kids in a domestic situation, and a BOLO had been put out on his vehicle. I just happened to be driving the county's pursuit vehicle that night. It was a hopped up Plymouth that would pin you to the seat when the gas pedal was floored. I observed the subjects car screech to a halt at a red light. This attracted my attention, and my fellow officer was coming up right behind him with his overhead lights on. I called in the pursuit to the local city we were in, and to the County Sheriff's department. This activated three other patrol cars into the chase. I was glad to be the last one in the line, but when the subject's car started pulling away from all the other patrol cars I was summoned to the front of the pack. By now we were on a two lane black top country road doing in excess of 100mph. There was no shoulder, and I had to pullout into the passing lane to get by the other four Patrol vehicles. Now I'm doing about 120mph, and "the telephone poles looked like a picket fence". Just as I got even with the first Patrol car, I started smelling an engine over heating, and then smoke filled the roadway in front of me. Thinking my partners car had just blown an engine I sped up ahead of him only to get oil sprayed all over my windshield. It was the subject's vehicle that had blown the engine, not a Patrol car. There I am in the lead doing 100+ mph with smoke & oil obstructing my view. All this while operating a radio and telling everyone else to back down their pursuit. The subject vehicle came to a halt at the entrance of a state park, and we were able to take him into custody without further incident. Everyone was patting me on the back, but I told my Captain that I didn't want to ever have to drive that car again. It scared the hell out of me. He didn't listen, and I'm glad he didn't, because just a few months later I was alerted to a robbery suspect who had robbed a Photo-Mat, and had injured the cashier by stabbing her with a knife. The same officer I was with before found this car first, and he immediately called me to come help him. By the time I got involved in this chase the bad guy had ran several people off the road, and had hit a few others. The road in which we were chasing him on was heading back into the city of Houston, and while I knew he would get stopped there by their department, he had to first go through a school zone in our jurisdiction, that was just a few miles up the road. School was letting out and the schooling crossing guards were already letting the children cross the street. We considered calling off the pursuit, but the bad guy didn't slow down when we did. It was then that I moved into the lead and did a pit maneuver on the bad guys car at 80 mph. Now this is not a recommended speed for doing such a thing, and was nothing but dangerous for both the bad guy and I. We were in a fairly well to do residential area, and the bad guys car slid sideways up into the lawn of a retired doctors home. The vehicle dug up the lawn, and came to a stop just feet from the front door of the of the doctors house. I thought I would get into trouble for this one, but I just wanted to end the chase. By the time I got turned around and came back to the scene, the bad guy was in cuffs, and the doctor was shaking everyone's hands for doing a great job. He came up to me, and I told him I was sorry about his lawn, and he said "Son, don't worry yourself. That's what the lawns keeper gets paid for. If he had made it into the house your guys wouldn't be arresting him." I didn't like pursuits, but this one I felt good about. You just don't know if anyone who runs from you is a felon or not. Armed with the information we had back then I have to wonder what some here would have done in the same sitaution?
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."<BR>(Proverbs 22:6)
as far as the other 6 kid in the car, parents have an obligation to teach their children how to live lif and to choose their friends wisely, it seems to me there was wholesale abdication of responsibility by the parents in this case. there was no understanding of consequences by anyone except the police officer who gave every opportunity for the car to come to a stop. sadly those kids paid the ultimate price for hanging with the wrong guy. LIFE IS NOT FAIR NOR WAS IT DESIGNED TO BE.
anyway aside from that and totally off topic.my wife and i had gone to montreal canada for one of her neices wedding and on tuesday we were coming back from canada and after a long wait at the border(2 1/2 hrs)i was in a hurry to get moving along and back downstate. near the town of moriah i had a blowout at about 80 mph on the right rear tire. the car did a 360 and headed toward the gaurdrail on the righti moved the steering wheel slghtly and and we headed tothe median. the car stopped just short of the edge of the embankment and i turned and asked my wife if she was ok. i have no idea how i stopped that car, i was lucky there were no vehicles heaed down behind me, and was only by the grace of god that i did not flip the car(it is a little honda prelude). the rim was cracked scraped and the rubber gone mostly and we were a bit shaken up. along comes a nys trooper who helped us take off the rim an put on the donut an told us where we might find a tire and wheel as it was getting a bit late. so i'd like to say thanks to god and ny state trooper woods.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Where were you when this happened? I know a Trooper here named Woods, I would be glad to tell him thanks & shake his hand for you friend.
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
It does take two to have a chase. However, if the LEO suddenly cuts the lights and slows down, you still have a reckless speeding criminal zooming down the road. You think the thug is going to resume the posted limit?
I just see alot of double standards here...
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."