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Death panels in Canadian health care...
NOSLEEP
Member Posts: 4,526
A little info on an ongoing Canadian familys struggling for a dignified end, and their input on the end of life for their infant son.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/24/canadian-family-life-support-battle-denied-request-hospital-transfer/#
The parents of a Canadian boy ordered off life support by government health officials have been denied a request to transfer the 13-month-old to the Children's Hospital of Michigan.
London Health Sciences Centre in Ontario, Canada, was advised Thursday by the Michigan hospital that the boy would not be transferred.
Moe Maraachli and his wife, Sana Nader, of Windsor, Ontario, wanted the Michigan hospital to perform a tracheotomy on their son Joseph, who is currently kept alive by a respirator. The boy suffers from a rare, progressive neurological disease which, Canadian doctors say, has left him in a vegetative state beyond recovery.
A spokesman for Maraachli told FoxNews.com the family is "working on an appeal" to the Michigan hospital's decision. The hospital declined to comment on "any matters surrounding the case."
Joseph's parents believed that if the Detroit hospital had accepted the child and conducted the operation, in which doctors would place a breathing tube in his windpipe, he could be cared for at home.
Canadian health care allocation officials already ruled that Joseph had to be taken off life support and allowed to die in the hospital. A Canadian judge then ruled that Maraachli had to give his consent to having the breathing tube removed by Monday. He refused.
Maraachli says turning off life support could cause his son to choke and suffocate. He told Fox News on Wednesday that the doctors at London Health Sciences Centre have said the "best treatment" is to "let him die. I don't know what kind of treatment that [is]."
The family believes this procedure will allow Joseph to breathe on his own, and thereby be able to go home and likely die there.
Doctors are now asking the Canadian government to allow them to remove the breathing tube without the family's consent. The Ontario hospital contends that a tracheotomy would be painful for the boy, despite their argument that Joseph is in a vegetative state.
Officials at the Ontario hospital appeared to be cooperating with the transfer request and sent Joseph's full medical record to Children's Hospital of Michigan on Monday.
"Our focus at this time is supporting the family by providing compassionate and dignified care, and comfort to both the patient and his parents," the hospital said on its website
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/24/canadian-family-life-support-battle-denied-request-hospital-transfer/#
The parents of a Canadian boy ordered off life support by government health officials have been denied a request to transfer the 13-month-old to the Children's Hospital of Michigan.
London Health Sciences Centre in Ontario, Canada, was advised Thursday by the Michigan hospital that the boy would not be transferred.
Moe Maraachli and his wife, Sana Nader, of Windsor, Ontario, wanted the Michigan hospital to perform a tracheotomy on their son Joseph, who is currently kept alive by a respirator. The boy suffers from a rare, progressive neurological disease which, Canadian doctors say, has left him in a vegetative state beyond recovery.
A spokesman for Maraachli told FoxNews.com the family is "working on an appeal" to the Michigan hospital's decision. The hospital declined to comment on "any matters surrounding the case."
Joseph's parents believed that if the Detroit hospital had accepted the child and conducted the operation, in which doctors would place a breathing tube in his windpipe, he could be cared for at home.
Canadian health care allocation officials already ruled that Joseph had to be taken off life support and allowed to die in the hospital. A Canadian judge then ruled that Maraachli had to give his consent to having the breathing tube removed by Monday. He refused.
Maraachli says turning off life support could cause his son to choke and suffocate. He told Fox News on Wednesday that the doctors at London Health Sciences Centre have said the "best treatment" is to "let him die. I don't know what kind of treatment that [is]."
The family believes this procedure will allow Joseph to breathe on his own, and thereby be able to go home and likely die there.
Doctors are now asking the Canadian government to allow them to remove the breathing tube without the family's consent. The Ontario hospital contends that a tracheotomy would be painful for the boy, despite their argument that Joseph is in a vegetative state.
Officials at the Ontario hospital appeared to be cooperating with the transfer request and sent Joseph's full medical record to Children's Hospital of Michigan on Monday.
"Our focus at this time is supporting the family by providing compassionate and dignified care, and comfort to both the patient and his parents," the hospital said on its website
Comments
Its fox news for gods sake!!
hahahahahahahahaha
Its fox news for gods sake!!
so, because it was reported by Fox, it didn't happen? Hmmm might want to tell the parents that. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to know that!
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
is the procedure that they want actually going to improve the child's quality of life any? or just keep him lingering in a vegetative state for another month or two, technically alive and yet not alive.
I agree that its their money and their decision, not that of the Canadian authorities.
I'm just saying that it seems selfish to keep the boy "alive" in only the mechanical sense (blood pumps, cells work, but brain doesn't at any detectable level) for your own benefit rather than his.
Unfortunately most cases like this are not like an episode of House, where the genius doctor looks at something totally unrelated to medicine at the very last possible moment and all of a sudden realizes that its really a stealthy disease with a simple cure.
hahahahahahahahaha
Its fox news for gods sake!!
Its a Canadian health care case. Its been picked up by Fox News because it is completely relevant to the New American health care system as set out by the Obama administration. The issue is not that the child is dying or has a slim chance of medical care making any real discernible difference. The issue is the Canadian Government deciding on whether this child parents can make life and death decisions regarding their son, or the governments obvious death panels making the decisions for them. As well as the government deciding that they may not seek medical care for their family member elsewhere.
No, here in the USA we copied pieces of systems that worked well elsewhere, dumped the parts that made them work well and turned the leftovers into a financial investment system that does a piss poor job of delivering health care.
BRILLIANT!!!!
Even if it is a true story, which would take some digging to find out, so what? No one has made a serious effort to bring the Canadian model to the USA. Nor the UK model for that matter.
No, here in the USA we copied pieces of systems that worked well elsewhere, dumped the parts that made them work well and turned the leftovers into a financial investment system that does a piss poor job of delivering health care.
BRILLIANT!!!!
apparently you've had as much trouble reading the health care bill (Obamacare) as the senators and reps who passed it!
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Even if it is a true story, which would take some digging to find out, so what? No one has made a serious effort to bring the Canadian model to the USA. Nor the UK model for that matter.
No, here in the USA we copied pieces of systems that worked well elsewhere, dumped the parts that made them work well and turned the leftovers into a financial investment system that does a piss poor job of delivering health care.
BRILLIANT!!!!
I don't believe your Government your health care providers, your insurance companies or the people of the U.S. has any real discernible idea of what is in store for the masses when the new health care kicks in. I guess you will find out after its institutionalized. And you can read about it then...
Is it me or is this place getting infested with liberal cock roaches?
They are easy to spot cartod.[:D] Particularly when they are desperate to justify drivel and socialized political nonsense.
Is it me or is this place getting infested with liberal cock roaches?
It sure seems to be getting worse.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The point is by giving in to free government health care they have given up the right to decide when it is costing too much to keep him alive.
That is some of it. But there is more, a lot more than just the monetary aspect. Once the decisions on dignity in death are removed and the government panels are afforded the legal right to decide on the right to live. The rest of the medical decisions are superficial.
As horribly painful as it is, these folks gotta realize that their child has been a goner since birth and trying to play God by plugging him/her into a machine to prolong a life that's clearly over isn't humane, and certainly isn't dignified. (Honestly, IMO it's strictly for their benefit, not the childs')
Its not new..
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Is it me or is this place getting infested with liberal cock roaches?
It sure seems to be getting worse.
Not more just the ones that have been here are starting to speak the truth because they are unafraid now.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Is it me or is this place getting infested with liberal cock roaches?
It sure seems to be getting worse.
Not more just the ones that have been here are starting to speak the truth because they are unafraid now.
be sure to let us know when that's going to start happening.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Reaper1862
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Is it me or is this place getting infested with liberal cock roaches?
It sure seems to be getting worse.
Not more just the ones that have been here are starting to speak the truth because they are unafraid now.
be sure to let us know when that's going to start happening.
Hope you are not holding your breath .[:0]
What's going on is that there is no money to pay for the continued care for the child in Canada, and the Michigan hospital looked at the situation and decided that no care other than what was being provided would be given at their hospital, either.
Where are all the tough men who ridicule such issues as appealing to emotions, this time?
Where are all the he men who simply say "Let them die", on this side of the border ?
Anybody here got a better answer ?
Nosleep, if the money were available to care for the child until every last body cell dies and rots away, would you be happy ?
Then why not support universal health care in this country ?
Just what do you think happens here when the money runs out and there is no hope for cure ?
You missed the point that I am making. Its not... I repeat, it is not just about the costs . The decisions are not solely being made because of money. Perhaps there is not enough information in this lone article. Please take a moment to reread it.
The lawyer for the parents of a dying Winsdor infant will re-open negotiations with LHSC officials tomorrow.
Speaking at an afternoon news conference a family friend of the Maraachli's told reporters the family was planning to appeal a judges decision made last week that they must consent to removing baby Joseph's breathing tube.
But in a turn of events the hospital is willing to talk about the possibility of performing a tracheotomy that would allow Joseph to be taken home to spend his final days.
At the request of the hospital, Joseph's father did not speak at todays news conference.
Joseph's story grabbed national headlines, after a judge sided with doctors last week that it would be in the best interest of the child to remove his breathing tube.
The family wants a tracheotomy done so Joseph can be taken home to die.
The kid is going to die....at best within a few days. Neither side is disputing that.
The hospital (or, "death panel", for the sake of argument) wants to turn off the respirator, so that the child will die quickly.
The parents want the hospital to perform a surgery so that the child can go home and starve to death.
Call me an * hole, but it sounds to me like the "death panel" got it right.
Just so we're clear.
The kid is going to die....at best within a few days. Neither side is disputing that.
The hospital (or, "death panel", for the sake of argument) wants to turn off the respirator, so that the child will die quickly.
The parents want the hospital to perform a surgery so that the child can go home and starve to death.
Call me an * hole, but it sounds to me like the "death panel" got it right.
NO NO NO... Read please. The hospital wants to remove the breathing tube so the little guy will suffer suffocation. If the hospital could just starve him to death they would. Thats how they killed Terry Shivo. Seems to me we don't starve our dogs to death on purpose. Just people.
Even if it is a true story, which would take some digging to find out, so what? No one has made a serious effort to bring the Canadian model to the USA. Nor the UK model for that matter.
No, here in the USA we copied pieces of systems that worked well elsewhere, dumped the parts that made them work well and turned the leftovers into a financial investment system that does a piss poor job of delivering health care.
BRILLIANT!!!!
LOL, I guess everyone got bent out of shape before reading your second line...
NO NO NO... Read please. The hospital wants to remove the breathing tube so the little guy will suffer suffocation.
I guess you missed this part.
quote:
The hospital (or, "death panel", for the sake of argument) wants to turn off the respirator, so that the child will die quickly.
He's going to die quickly (by suffocation) or die slowly, by starvation (if the feeding tube taken out) or by the deterioration of his neurological system (if the feeding tube is left in).
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
NO NO NO... Read please. The hospital wants to remove the breathing tube so the little guy will suffer suffocation.
I guess you missed this part.
quote:
The hospital (or, "death panel", for the sake of argument) wants to turn off the respirator, so that the child will die quickly.
He's going to die quickly (by suffocation) or die slowly, by starvation (if the feeding tube taken out) or by the deterioration of his neurological system (if the feeding tube is left in).
I didn't miss their description.
Its the family's wish that he dies at home. The "death panel" see's it different. And it has nothing to do with money.
I would prefer it the same way. If it was as simple as you propose it wouldn't be getting the attention it is.
Death Panel? What Death Panel? The family wants their dying baby to be able to die at home. The issue is not whether this tragedy ends in the baby's demise but how it ends. Remove the respirator, which the family also wants to do, and the child may (it is not certain) choke to death.
Put in a Tracheotomy and that will not happen. The baby will pass on without that added suffering.
The hospital authorities are not balking at cost. No one is. They are worrying that a dying baby may catch an infection from the tracheotomy. They also worry that the baby, whom they say is in a vegetative state, would feel pain from the operation.
The obvious answer is "Okay, use anesthesia"!
From reading other stories, the hospital and the family are still talking, looking for a compromise. I hope they find one. Having been through some tough and similar situations in my own family I am especially sympathetic.
All that family says they want is for their terminally ill baby to die in peace and at home. Everyone involved should solemnly and respectfully help them bring this sorrowful and heart wrenching time to an end.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
Even if it is a true story, which would take some digging to find out, so what? No one has made a serious effort to bring the Canadian model to the USA. Nor the UK model for that matter.
No, here in the USA we copied pieces of systems that worked well elsewhere, dumped the parts that made them work well and turned the leftovers into a financial investment system that does a piss poor job of delivering health care.
BRILLIANT!!!!
LOL, I guess everyone got bent out of shape before reading your second line...
Yeah, in my experience folks get bent out of shape the instant they can detect anything in what I say that does not perfectly fit their present definition of conservatism. I call it "Key Wordism". They go ballistic over key words that pull their triggers.
Sometimes even if I agree with them.
Kind of funny at times.
Having just used Google News to find multiple sources to read, it sure is a sad and painful affair.
Death Panel? What Death Panel? The family wants their dying baby to be able to die at home. The issue is not whether this tragedy ends in the baby's demise but how it ends. Remove the respirator, which the family also wants to do, and the child may (it is not certain) choke to death.
Put in a Tracheotomy and that will not happen. The baby will pass on without that added suffering.
The hospital authorities are not balking at cost. No one is. They are worrying that a dying baby may catch an infection from the tracheotomy. They also worry that the baby, whom they say is in a vegetative state, would feel pain from the operation.
The obvious answer is "Okay, use anesthesia"!
From reading other stories, the hospital and the family are still talking, looking for a compromise. I hope they find one. Having been through some tough and similar situations in my own family I am especially sympathetic.
All that family says they want is for their terminally ill baby to die in peace and at home. Everyone involved should solemnly and respectfully help them bring this sorrowful and heart wrenching time to an end.
I see you have a complete understanding of what I was trying to illustrate. The "death panel" is a metaphor for the struggle the parents are having while trying to have "their terminally ill baby die in peace and at home" and "everyone involved should solemnly and respectfully help them bring this sorrowful and heart wrenching time to an end".... You said it well.