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This is How its done

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
This is how Laws are passed without the public knowledge. Think it cant happen,, ????? Read and wonder whats next, Wake up tomorrow and Read the front Page or hear it on TV, "NEW LAW BANNING GUNS NOW IN EFFECT"

Silencing the report

MN Police to get Silencers!

By: Karl B. Johnson
Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder
Originally posted 12/3/2003

Unknown to most citizens, a new state law lets police use silencers

This past June 30, I happened to be reading the local daily newspaper. As I scanned the articles, I noticed a line that struck me as odd. It read, "Police will be able to use gun silencers for high risk entry." This was a blurb informing the public of the new laws that had been enacted by the Minnesota Legislature.

In military and police talk, the sound of a firearm discharging is referred to as a report. So I found it odd that the moment that law enforcement should be the most accountable to its citizens - during the use of deadly force and the possibility of taking a human life - could now be obscured by the passage of this law.

The bill was listed as S.F. (Senate File) 945. Republican Senators David L. Knutson, Burnsville; Paul E. Koering, Fort Ripley; Pat Pariseau, Farmington; and Democratic Senator Jim Vickerman of Tracey sponsored the bill.

I was really interested in the story behind this type of law, so I sent each of them an email asking them what reason was given for such a bill. I asked why such a bill was introduced, how the bill would be beneficial to the citizens of Minnesota, and inquired about the shared philosophy of the authors. I also asked each senator how their constituents felt about the law.

I waited for about 10 days and finally followed up the email with letters. I received a phone call from Senator Paul Koering. Koering was quite candid and said that State Representative Dale Walz, from Baxter, Minnesota, who happens to be a law enforcement official, approached him and asked if Koering would sponsor the bill. The bill was not what is called a "stand alone bill". That is, it was attached to another bill and there was never any public debate on it from the full Senate and full House.

I explained to Koering that my intention was not to confront law enforcement, but that law enforcement needed to be held accountable. I asked Koering if he was aware of what the discharge of a firearm was called by military and police personnel. He was silent. I responded, "It is called a report, and in essence, what this bill does is to silence the report of accountability that police officers have to the communities in which they are entrusted to enforce laws."



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"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.
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Comments

  • D@DD@D Member Posts: 4,407
    edited November -1
    So you are saying this is a problem why? Not the passing of the new law but useing silencers maybe this will help those who go in to a situation like the Swat teams do. Have you ever shot a gun in a closed space its loud, now think about 2 or 3 sub-guns going off that must be nerve racking so I see how it could be of use. But I do agree about passing a law without letting the people know about it.
  • Colt SuperColt Super Member Posts: 31,007
    edited November -1
    Many PDs used suppressed .22s to put street lights (and other lights) out before a hazardous entry, so as not to warn the suspects.

    Never thought of them using quiet weapons after entry.

    God Bless America and...
    NEVER Forget WACO
    NEVER, EVER Forget 911
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    I think the point is the potential for missuse, though I suspect that such misuse is very unlikely. A possible scenario would be an officer firing the first shot at suspect then claiming the suspect shot at him first. Since only one report (the suspects) would be heard it may be difficult to prove which shot came when. As mentioned it just ads another stumbling stone to accountability.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I could go into a mirade of issues on this one, but I dont give a Hoot who has silencers or not, it was the manner that the law was passed. NO DISCUSSION by the State SENATE or anyone. it just appeared on the coat tail of another bill. and SHAZAM we got a new law in MN..

    MY point being if they can do one law that way whats next..

    And NO I dont beleive that POLICE should be AFFORDED the Use of Silencers, but thats another ISSUE that I aint gonna discuss today..

    animatflip.gif

    "I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.
    Hudson.gif
    900.gif
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Exactly my point. the subject of the law is a mute point, when laws can be passed without due process..It is the process that I am questioning...[:D] Not the Law..

    animatflip.gif

    "I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.
    Hudson.gif
    900.gif
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Suppressed firearms are used by LE entry teams for a few reasons.

    One is to quieten them to aid communication between members and assist in hearing potential threats. The bad guy's firearm will still make noise, but the idea is that overall muzzle blasts will be less than half.

    Suppressor use also helps to differentiate between hostile and "friendly" gunfire. Besides identifying the source it cuts down the confusion of an AD by a member being mistaken for hostile fire.

    Another consideration is the decreased muzzle blast in hazardous material environments. These are sometimes encountered in drug labs or barricaded person situations where the bad guy has spread some sort of flammable material, such as gasoline.

    As for suppressors allowing LEO's to shoot first and no one outside hearing their gunfire, many team's members are equipped with body mikes that continuously transmit during entries. These record every sound made, both to prevent false claims and critique the officers performance for training purposes.
  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    It's fine with me as long as I can have one too.

    Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is not the first nor the last law passed without anyone really knowing about it. A lot of pork gets passed by adding to bills at the last minute. It has been going on for eternity. So the news is no news. Just my opinion. Don

    "Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Who cares for what reason LEOs need suppresed weapons? Not me.

    What you should care about is the manner in which this law went through,

    No need to justify why the law, or the need of the law, but again, because a couple people thought it benificial, they skirted it through , and no one, including the legislators were included in the decision to make it law or not,, Thats frightning, to think, because Joe Scmuck decides he dont like your guns, slide a bill through make it law without a vote>>>>

    animatflip.gif

    "I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.
    Hudson.gif
    900.gif
  • Contender ManContender Man Member Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Simply stated ... I believe that there should be no bill/law passed w/o full disclosure and debate and that any such bill/law found to be passed without such disclosure and debate be struck down.

    The "pols" have had it their way too long, voters need to start culling. The mechanisims are there to do it, but the majority of the people don't want to even think about the effort to get things rolling.



    If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!
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