Match grade ammo

Cornflk1

Just to turn the forum back to informative firearm issues, What exactly are the requirements for having "match grade' ammo? Is it bullet weight to definate measurements, certain powder, etc.

Tempest

Yes. Everything is perfect and within a very tight tolerance.

317wc

Yes, everything is held to tight tolerances, bullet uniformity, weight, thickness and concentricity of the jacket, composition of coppper used in the jacket is measured from lot to lot. Primer type and depth, uniform thickness of the brass used, and uniformity of the lot of cases, powder type, uniform neck tension, correctly sized brass, the most accurate powder, a lot goes into it.

bigoutside

I have found that "world class" is sufficient for my purposes. [;)]

FrancF

Factory "Match Grade" Vs "Reloaded Match Grade" The boundaries are wide in aspect.

Factory Match Grade- tight tolerances one size fits all.
Reloaded Match Grade- tight tolerances for a specific gun.

mark christian

If you are looking to become a serious match shooter; either rifle or pistol, then you need to begin reloading. Match, Premium Match, Ultra Super Whiz-Bang World Class Match...It is all meaningless marketing. With .22 rimfire ammo you have no choice but to go with factory production but for centerfire it is another story because you can design your own loads specifically for your own rifle or pistol. Bottom line: The only person who can be sure that each and every round is loaded perfectly is you.

Bergtreffer

317wc hit most of the important stuff. The correct bullet jump of a match reload in a chamber is very important. Rifles are sensitive to getting the correct bullet jump. Everything about bullet weights, case dimensions, etc etc etc is important, but test firing and determining accuracy also must take in account a minute amount of bullet jump. A little plus or minus optimum and accuracy falls off.

Chalkline

The term in factory ammo doesn't really mean much since there are no federal standards defining what "match grade" really means. Consequently, the term is mainly an advertising gimmick...which frequently doesn't hold much water when subjected to rigorous testing on a bench. Of course there are exceptions like Federal's Gold Medal Match ammo which is very good for mass produced factory ammo. OTOH, in most guns, it's typically bested by Norma Diamond and Lapua Aficionado ammo, neither of which claim "match" status.

And what are we measuring as our benchmarks? Average velocity over a wide temperature spread, standard deviation and velocity extreme spread (10 shots minimum, preferably 20), accuracy (group size) without discarding flyers (and we're not talking about a little three-shot group here).

Those are the parameters which the long range precision shooters look at. For example, they want to see the velocity standard deviation from shot to shot be 7 fps or less. If you run the ballistics tables on something like a .300 Win Mag at 1500 yards, you'll be amazed at how much a mere 15 fps velocity variation affects the projected impact point.

As previously mentioned, truly "match grade" (what you and I intuitively mean) ammo requires hand reloading...using components (cases, bullets, primers, powder) which have a proven track record for having the absolutely tightest tolerances in the industry.

Then put together using benchrest dies and benchrest reloading techniques which are quite time consuming.

And last, tuning those components to produce the best accuracy obtainable in your individual gun(s).

Quite frankly, all this attention isn't required for producing acceptable hunting rounds for the typical hunter but it sure means the world of difference to a competitive shooter or the guy tagging an elk across a canyon at 1200 yards. That heart-lung area is pretty small at those distances...and that's assuming you've read the winds right and have the range figured out correctly.

Talk to some tactical competition (sniper) shooters, those guys are experts at first round hits at extreme distances. They don't get "sighters" like the benchrest crowd does.

Cornflk1

Yep, thanks to all. Learned a bit here.

I reload, but not sure my standards are quite up to these standards. Currently trying to set up a .308 HS Herstal into a 'long range' rifle. Don't have glass for it yet and I'm not real sure my eyes/nerves/skill are capable, but I'm trying to educate myself.

My brother in Virginia has his 15 yr old son enrolled in a shooting school owned by an ex Army sniper. He is currently hitting at 1000yds. He uses match grade ammo, but it's an expensive undertaking. I'd just like to hit at 500 yd and not look too bad for a 60 yr old. Plus still have a dollar in my pocket after shooting

gesshots

quote:Originally posted by mark christian
If you are looking to become a serious match shooter; either rifle or pistol, then you need to begin reloading. Match, Premium Match, Ultra Super Whiz-Bang World Class Match...It is all meaningless marketing. With .22 rimfire ammo you have no choice but to go with factory production but for centerfire it is another story because you can design your own loads specifically for your own rifle or pistol. Bottom line: The only person who can be sure that each and every round is loaded perfectly is you.

+10000
Spot on, Mark! [^]

perry shooter

The Military marksmanship teams as well as the old DCM used to contract Both Pistol and Rifle ammo that had to meet certain Match Grade quality standards . Most had to achieve a set group size at a known distance. This ammo was used in CMP matches . We used to be allocated cases of Pistol match grade 45ACP for each states team. . This was the BEST that one could find But each lot number would be slightly different. I still have some Federal made from 1974 that I use as a bench mark in my Hardball guns when testing them in a Ransom rest. Never seen any factory loaded ammo that was better. With 22 ammo you must test in each gun and find a brand and lot number Each gun likes High end Match ammo may shoot great in 7 out of every 10 Pistols and then Mid level ammo of one lot number may even shoot smaller groups . . You need 3 things to shoot good match scores #1 the shooter behind the trigger #2 the rifle or pistol built to match grade and #3 the ammo. like a chain the weakest of the three will result in your score.

Chalkline

Sounds like you have some solid experience on the subject right in your family, Corn. You should tap into that knowledge base. But then I guess it's a long way from Indiana to Virginia.

Does your nephew participate in any of the eastern seaboard competitive tactical shoots? The shooters from the Virginias (and Maryland) are well known in tactical competition circles as being among the very, very best.

Actually, I suspect your nephew engages targets beyond 1,000 yards unless he's a noob at the long range game. The tac competitions I've observed out here in my state reach out to 1,500 yards. And that's a damn 'fur' piece in anybody's book! Those guys (and the occasional gal) seem to be using three guns -- .223/5.56 semi-auto out to 350 yards or so for the rapid fire stuff, .260 Rem or .30 cal (.308 Win or .300 WinMag or .300 Weatherby) out to around 1,000 yards and then the .338 LM for the really long range stuff.

So yea, three precision guns with good glass (plus the ammo to stay proficient) makes for a mighty expensive hobby.

But you know, you've got a great start with that FN, especially if it's the A5 version with the bedded McMillan stock. Those things are guaranteed a max .5 MOA right out of the box. I've seen them hold their own out here against the .308 Accuracy International AW...at a third the price.

It's a good thing you are a reloader, .308 Win ammo is currently kind of tough to find in anything but light bullet weights. Either shoot some for the brass or try to find some Lapua or Nosler reloading brass if you want the very best and avoid much of the tedious first-use case prep work necessary when using the more common brands.

shilowar

It means some sweat shop kid polished the bullet with a microfiber clothe an turtle wax.

Cornflk1

Chalkline, you are right on with your starements. He has fired in a couple compitations, finished in the middle of the pack in one. I get recomendations about equipment from my brother and nephew, but the distance is a problem and advise on all of the other appects, breath control, basic set up for the stock and of course ammo selection is all me[?]

My Herstal has the bedded Mcmillian stock. Still pondering the glass I'm going to put on it. The gun record book states that it was factory fired for accuracy with Black hills 175 gr BTHP and Federal match 168 gr BTHP. 100 yard target shows all inside a dime.

A J Christ

What do you mean?

If you are talking about hand or custom made match ammo, it was crafted with extra care to get all rounds consistent.


Military issue match ammo. Nothing special about it expect marked in a manner to be easily identified. Issued at matches so everyone was on a level playing field when it comes to the ammunition.

Have a good pile of LC 7.62 X 51 match. Both the bullets and the cases are knurled to provide quick and easy verification, doesn't shoot any better, or worse, than commercially available ammo. Have pulled bullets and weighed them and the powder charges, show typical variations on a range I expect to see with regular commercial. Todays ammunition is pretty much made to tighter tolerances than mid 80's match.