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m-16 bolt carrier headspace

acsglockacsglock Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
edited October 2004 in General Discussion
i'm trying to make my ar-15 clone legal. if i change the bolt carrier could it change the headspace?

Comments

  • kingjoeykingjoey Member Posts: 8,636
    edited November -1
    Bolt carrier, no. Bolt, possibly. Are you swapping out a verboten bolt carrier?

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  • acsglockacsglock Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    not sure what a verboten bolt carrier is. the carrier i'm changing was removed from an usgi m16a2. thanks for the info.
  • kingjoeykingjoey Member Posts: 8,636
    edited November -1
    Verboten=forbidden (i.e. having an M16 bolt carrier in an AR-15 rifle[;)]

    Love them Beavers
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  • acsglockacsglock Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    yep i need to get rid of it along with a few other parts.
  • kingjoeykingjoey Member Posts: 8,636
    edited November -1
    Good luck[;)]

    PS: Welcome to the forum[:D]

    Love them Beavers
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  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    you cant have even one m16 part in your ar15, unless you first register it as a c3 firearm.


    fyi: the parts that you cant have(from memory now) bolt, bolt carrier, hammer, disconnector, sear, sellector(i think thats all of them)

    if you are caught with even one of these parts in an ar15, it is legaly classified as an unregistered machine gun. that carries with it a 10yr/$250,000.00 fine.

    be smart about this. lots of problem can pop up

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • SilentKnightSilentKnight Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are you sure about not being abke to have an M16 bolt in a AR15? Ive seen dozens of AR15s with M16 bolts. Competition shooters recomended the M16 bolts to me because they are heavier and more reliable. But I dont have a M16 bolt in my AR. I dont have an M16 bolt period.

    sg_550_neu_gr.jpg

    Come and Take it

    Dont mess with Texas
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    To my knowledge, the bolt is fine, as is the selector itself. You did miss one, though. Here's my list:

    1. Bolt carrier - M16 carrier has more metal that allows it to trip the sear, thus it's not allowed (it additionally has a ramp where the AR-15 bolt does not, or at least most AR-15 bolts do not, that on the AR-15 causes the hammer to fail to even slam-fire if you pull the disconnector out without having an auto sear)
    2. Hammer - M16 hammer has an additional tab that the sear catches, thus it's not allowed
    3. Trigger - M16 trigger has removed metal at rear to allow M16 disconnector to fit
    4. Disconnector - M16 disconnector has longer rear tab to allow selector to depress it and disable it from engaging hammer
    5. Auto sear - M16 has one, AR-15 does not; it times the hammer to the bolt entering battery

    Bolt, selector, burst cam, burst disconnector, etc. are all just fine, because none of them serves toward the purpose of full-auto fire, but merely to make full-auto fire more convenient or reliable. The parts above each contribute directly to making a semi-auto rifle fully automatic, and each is therefore illegal to have in an unregistered gun or, by BATFE doctrine, in possession of anyone who even owns an unregistered gun.
  • SilentKnightSilentKnight Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: To my knowledge, the bolt is fine, as is the selector itself. You did miss one, though.

    So an M16 bolt in a AR15 is okay?

    sg_550_neu_gr.jpg

    Come and Take it

    Dont mess with Texas
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    i was incorrect about the bolt.

    this image os from the bushy web site. these are the restricted parts, and how to tell them apart

    ar15m16.gif

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • SilentKnightSilentKnight Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So you cant have a complete M16 bolt(bolt carrier, bolt head, etc) in a AR15?

    sg_550_neu_gr.jpg

    Come and Take it

    Dont mess with Texas
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    The complete bolt is okay. The bolt carrier is not.

    I guess the selector counts, probably because it fits into what I was saying about having a direct connection to making the gun select-fire, although with the sear, hammer, and bolt carrier you can just pull the selector and disconnector out and have it run fine, unless the selector does something to the sear that I'm not aware of.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    silent: bolt-yes. bolt carrier- no

    to the bets of my knowledge, the parts in the pic are the only restricted parts. you ant have anythoher parts for the -16, just not those

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    silent: bolt-yes. bolt carrier- no

    to the bets of my knowledge, the parts in the pic are the only restricted parts. you ant have anythoher parts for the -16, just not those

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • SilentKnightSilentKnight Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Then ive seen dozens of people breaking the law. M16 bolt carriers are popular amoung competition shooters because of their extra weight.

    sg_550_neu_gr.jpg

    Come and Take it

    Dont mess with Texas
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    SK: I think you're wrong.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    well if you want to help them out, print this pic and tell them that their firearms are felonies waiting to happen.

    this is kind of a tough thing to get caught for. were they to get pulled over with those guns, and the officer decided to tear them down to check for this type of thing, and he actually knew what to look for, they'd be screwed. probability of this- >1%.

    on the other hand, if their guns were stolen, then recovered, this process might just take place. same result. same probability

    you really need to get caught breaking the law to be found out here. pretty much the same with high cap mags in a post ban gun. nobodies really going to investigate the firearms born on date to find out if you can have high caps, unless their trying to pad the list of things a guy did wrong type of thing.

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    well if you want to help them out, print this pic and tell them that their firearms are felonies waiting to happen.

    this is kind of a tough thing to get caught for. were they to get pulled over with those guns, and the officer decided to tear them down to check for this type of thing, and he actually knew what to look for, they'd be screwed. probability of this- >1%.

    on the other hand, if their guns were stolen, then recovered, this process might just take place. same result. same probability

    you really need to get caught breaking the law to be found out here. pretty much the same with high cap mags in a post ban gun. nobodies really going to investigate the firearms born on date to find out if you can have high caps, unless their trying to pad the list of things a guy did wrong type of thing.

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SilentKnight
    Then ive seen dozens of people breaking the law. M16 bolt carriers are popular amoung competition shooters because of their extra weight.



    I've seen the same thing, but they were military surplus carriers that had the section milled out (like in KEVD18 sample pic) before they were sold to the general public.

    girlieman.png
  • SilentKnightSilentKnight Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya, I know what a M16 bolt carrier looks like and ive seen them in AR15 rifles.

    sg_550_neu_gr.jpg

    Come and Take it

    Dont mess with Texas
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    there's an idiot on ar15.com that posted pictures of his ar15 with a m16 bolt in it. ATFE is likely at his house right now looking to see what else he has.

    Don't possess m16 parts and a ar15 period. You can possess m16 parts and not own a ar15 from what I've been told.

    ...but the rhinelandarms.com R22 .22lr rifle will take the m16 fire control group and shoot full auto so having that rifle and m16 parts is likely bad too.
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    there's an idiot on ar15.com that posted pictures of his ar15 with a m16 bolt in it. ATFE is likely at his house right now looking to see what else he has.

    Don't possess m16 parts and a ar15 period. You can possess m16 parts and not own a ar15 from what I've been told.

    ...but the rhinelandarms.com R22 .22lr rifle will take the m16 fire control group and shoot full auto so having that rifle and m16 parts is likely bad too.
  • acsglockacsglock Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks to all for your postings.javascript:insertsmilie('[:)]')
    javascript:insertsmilie('[:)]') the question still stands about the headspace. i have went ahead and changed the carriers out. the action still feels and operates the same, though i have not tried to chamber a round yet. thanks again for all of the input. remember: if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    KEVD18: I believe your pic is correct. A while back, BATF came out
    with pics and "how to do it" in legally converting AR 16 parts (as you
    show) to legal AR 15 parts, with mostly grinding and filling in. Not
    worth it with "selector" though. (Safety). Best to buy a AR 15 safety.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    so in our efforts to debate the legality of fire control parts, we completely skipped the original question.

    acs: soory for hijacking your thread

    --Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed--

    --The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them--

    --It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind--
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kevd18: Also sorry about that. Grinding away part of the M-16 bolt carrier to make it into a legal one (according to BATF specs back then)
    or using another carrier would not change headspace with existing bolt.
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    changing a bolt carrier will not change headspace.

    If you have a headspace issue someone didn't make the parts right.
  • acsglockacsglock Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    wish i would have thought about milling down the carrier before i cut it in half. can anyone say D A! thanks to all.
  • ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by acsglock
    wish i would have thought about milling down the carrier before i cut it in half. can anyone say D A! thanks to all.

    We all make mistakes - some of us just make dumber mistakes.k (And I place myself at the head of that class.)
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