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IL:Gun shop raided,agents find sawed-off shotguns

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited June 2004 in General Discussion
Gun shop raided

Owner charged after federal agents find sawed-off shotguns, how-to books

By Chris Hack
Staff writer
A Sauk Village gun shop was shut down and its owner arrested on a federal gun charge Thursday after agents found a pair of illegal sawed-off shotguns there.
Agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said they found the loaded weapons - as well as a kit used to make a semi-automatic weapon automatic - at Stutts Firearms and Ammunition, 1715 Sauk Trail. Also found were two books: "How to Make Disposable Silencers" and "Full Auto Modification Guide."

Owner Phillip Stutts, 47, of the 100 block of Kathleen Lane, Chicago Heights, faces a single federal charge of possession of an unregistered firearm. He was released on a $4,500 recongnizance bond after a brief appearance before a federal magistrate Thursday afternoon.

Stutts allegedly told ATF agents he kept the sawed-off shotguns in the store for his protection.

Magistrate Ian Levin barred Stutts from buying or selling guns while the case is pending, and also ordered him to surrender his firearm owner's and identification card. Stutts faces up to 10 years in prison if convicted, Assistant U.S. Attorney Nancy Miller said.

At the same time as Stutts' court appearance, ATF agents carted off more than 200 guns from his store to be checked for possible violations, bureau spokesman Tom Ahern said.

Agents obtained a federal search warrant for Stutts' store after learning a gun he sold was used in a crime. According to an ATF affidavit, Stutts sold a handgun to a Chicago Heights man who later brandished that pistol during a fight in Harvey.

The ATF agents determined Stutts sold the gun to the man when he was 20 years old. Sale of firearms to anyone younger than 21 is illegal. Stutts' wife allegedly told ATF agents Stutts destroyed the record of that sale.

Stutts has not been charged in connection to those allegations.

Chris Hack may be reached at chack@dailysouthtown.com or (708) 633-5984.
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/yrtwn/seast/281seyt4.htm

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878<P>

Comments

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    competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And to think: He could have paid the $5 tax, done a little extra paperwork, and owned a legal "destructive device" short-barreled shotgun and saved himself a lot of headache, money and potential prison time and criminal record...
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    CountryGunsmithCountryGunsmith Member Posts: 617 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The $5 tax is for 'Any Other Weapons'. Short-barrelled shotguns require a $200 tax. Also, he would have needed to file a Form 1 for each such weapon, with fingerprint cards, CLEO affidavits, etc.



    Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.
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    competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CountryGunsmith
    The $5 tax is for 'Any Other Weapons'. Short-barrelled shotguns require a $200 tax. Also, he would have needed to file a Form 1 for each such weapon, with fingerprint cards, CLEO affidavits, etc.


    http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=18945647

    I think you're thinking of "short barrelled rifles"--I'd have to double check, but I believe the $5 tax (like in the above auction) is all that would be needed.

    In any case, my point is that to own the "sawed-off" shotgun legally would have been substantially cheaper than what things are going to cost him now.
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    ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why were the two books even mentioned? Are books now illegal? Are we required to have special permits and tags in order to posess "objectionable" documents. F****** pinhead writer probably doesn't even realize what the hell he was doing and that's the worst part of all.
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    1armbandit1armbandit Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Why were the two books even mentioned?

    To get the desired public opinion. In Germany 70 years ago they called it propaganda.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Short barrel shotgun $5 bucks.
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    MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry guys, short barrel shotguns are $200. AOW's are $5. The gun in the above auction is an AOW not a Short Barrel shotgun. He still could not have built these on a Form 1. He is from IL, they don't allow Short Barrel Shotguns. They do however allow AOW's I believe.
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    MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Short Barrel Rifles, Machine guns, silencers, and short barrel shotguns are all $200 tax guns. ONLY aow's are $5 guns. Also, Destructive devices are NOT any of the above list firearms. DD's are a totally different animal.
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Short barreled shotgun equals a $200 NFA tax whether you are doing a From 1 (registering) or a From 4 (transfering). An Any Other Weapon, like the example shown in the provided link, is $200 to register on a From 1, but only $5 if you want it transfered to you on a Form 4. A short shotgun has an attached buttstock while an AOW has only a pistol grip and these differences, although they may seem slight, are quite significant when the time comes to pay the transfer tax ($195 worth). As Mr. Moose mentioned, DDs are a totally seperate class of firearms within the NFA and dealers need seperate licenses to sell DDs-- I don't have such a DD license. A dealer who is a Class 3 Special Occupational Taxpayer who can sell machineguns, Short barreled rifles and shotguns and AOWs is NOT allowed to deal in DDs without this seperate DD license which currently costs $3000!
    Man, that was some AWFUL spelling on my part...I needed to change that and quick!
    Mark T. Christian
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    1armbandit1armbandit Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The bottom line: IF (and keep in mind we know limited facts) this dealer really had an illegal gun in his store, he was eat up with the stupids.

    Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.
    --General George S. Patton, Jr.
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    beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The books were totally legal to have, read and share. I'm curious from those here who know, for what purpose would the BATF ever allow a person to possess a sawed off shotgun? Thanks.

    Bruce
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    MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beantole, why wouldn't the BATFE allow someone to own a short barrel shotgun, it is your 2nd Amendment right. Unless you live in a state that doesn't allow your 2nd Amendment rights.
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    1armbandit1armbandit Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:for what purpose would the BATF ever allow a person to possess a sawed off shotgun?

    Normally, one puts "collector" on the application. And actually, the BATF doesn't "allow" possession, but rather "prohibits" certain persons from possession. As an upright citizen, you are "allowed" to possess guns because of your constitutional rights.
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    woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:The ATF agents determined Stutts sold the gun to the man when he was 20 years old. Sale of firearms to anyone younger than 21 is illegal. Stutts' wife allegedly told ATF agents Stutts destroyed the record of that sale.


    Anybody wanna bet $50.00 there is a disgruntled wife involved? Sounds like they are trying to build a case based on the wife's allegations to me. And if that's the case, who is to say she didn't destroy the record.

    Woods



    rockin_lg_clr.gif

    "... there is much truth in the Italian saying, 'Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.'" -- Benjamin Franklin
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    gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A few years back a gun store near me had several full automatic guns hanging on the wall. I saw them many times and had no idea.
    When they got raided the Feds closed down everything for several weeks. People who had paid for guns couldn't get them. I had a couple on consignment & got a very nasty response from the agent I contacted.
    I complained to my Congressman & both Senators.
    Don't know which ones helped but I got a very contrite call from the agent & finally got my guns back.
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    CHGOTHNDERCHGOTHNDER Member Posts: 8,936 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Burn all the books and magazines say the Jack Booted Thugs. HMMMMM, wonder who said that.

    PJ[:(!]

    If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA Life Member, AF&AM
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    The California A.G. (Attorney General) Office called Stone's Gun Shop in Merced recently and said "You let a gun go 30 minutes early". We have a ten day wait.

    Roy Stone said "I don't recall, I'd have to check the paperwork, but I always note the time on the DROS. There is even a line for it."

    A.G. said "No, not on the ten day wait, on the 30 days between purchases."

    Roy ~ "How the heck am I supposed to know exactly what time a person picked up a gun from another store?"

    A.G. - We want you to make your customers aware we want them to wait the full 30 days, not 29 days and 23 and a half hours".

    That's the "common sense" prevailing in the West. Better put up fire-blocks, that it doesn't spread East.

    What's the difference between registering (Form 1) and transferring (Form 4) besides $195, if it is an AOW?

    Why can't a private citizen keep a sawed-off shotgun on private property for their own use? Did the NFA start this invasion into personal defense?

    Mark [;)] , "that was some AWFUL spelling on my part" ... I use the same "command" to spell-check this as I use in the default word-processing program, and the check window pops right up and checks it.
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    CountryGunsmithCountryGunsmith Member Posts: 617 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Competentone, the item you link to was undoubtedly built on a Mossberg Cruiser shotgun. The gun would have never had a buttstock, so it is eligible for classification as an AOW and subsequent transfer with the $5 tax. If a manufacturer takes a shotgun with buttstock and cuts it down the weapon created is a "short-barrelled shotgun" and is subject to the $200 transfer tax.





    Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.
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    MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jsergovic, the NFA was put into effect in 1934. An unregistered short barrel shotgun is illegal no matter what you use it for.
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