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Are outside opinions welcome?
ElMuertoMonkey
Member Posts: 12,898
In the many threads and posts on this forum, I notice a lot of responses whose content is essentially, "Oh yeah? How would you know? Are YOU a [insert profesion here, typically "veteran", "pilot", etc.]?" On one post I stated that "to the best of my recollection" flying aircraft, while dangerous, was not as dangerous as flying aircraft IN COMBAT.
A response basically asked, as a refutation, "Oh yeah? How many hours have you logged as a fighter pilot?" As if my lack of flying experience somehow disqualified me from making the judgement call that flying a plane in friendly skies was safer (not "safe", mind you, "safer") than flying a plane AND being shot at.
Does it take one to know one? Do we all have to be soldiers to comment on the military or politicians to comment on the government? If it's of a technical nature I can understand... after all, calling an LCD a "plasma screen" is about as wrong as calling an AR-15 a "machine gun."
Am I wrong to comment on military affairs? Foreign affairs? Domestic policy?
I'm not a veteran. Will likely never be. Nor will I likely be a doctor, a politician, or a tax assessor... so should I keep my trap shut about health care, politics, and my money? Or should I let those who "know better" tell me what to think?
A response basically asked, as a refutation, "Oh yeah? How many hours have you logged as a fighter pilot?" As if my lack of flying experience somehow disqualified me from making the judgement call that flying a plane in friendly skies was safer (not "safe", mind you, "safer") than flying a plane AND being shot at.
Does it take one to know one? Do we all have to be soldiers to comment on the military or politicians to comment on the government? If it's of a technical nature I can understand... after all, calling an LCD a "plasma screen" is about as wrong as calling an AR-15 a "machine gun."
Am I wrong to comment on military affairs? Foreign affairs? Domestic policy?
I'm not a veteran. Will likely never be. Nor will I likely be a doctor, a politician, or a tax assessor... so should I keep my trap shut about health care, politics, and my money? Or should I let those who "know better" tell me what to think?
Comments
Seriously, I read these posts way more then I comment on them and every opinion is interesting to me whether I agree with them or not. So, maybe your thoughts/opinions aren't appreciated by all but will be by some. KEEP EXPRESSING YOUR OPINIONS
There is one subject where I get defensive sorta in the manner you are describing and that is in my line of work. Much like the anti gunners we get hammered constantly by the anti truck groups who speak of something that they know nothing about. Alot of folks in cars comment on trucks just like an anti gunner comments on an AK47. They see it, but they have no idea what it takes to run one and they don't want bothered with them, hence we get the lane restrictions and split speeds. The anti gunners, they give the gun owners crap like the AWB. So when an anti gunner or someone who knows nothing about gun makes a comment we know is wrong we jump all over them same as I do when someone says trucks need to be in the right lane doing 55MPH, anti gunners and anti truckers can kiss my *!
Did I get off subject again? Oops[:D]
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY<P>
So there.
God Bless America and...
NEVER Forget WACO
NEVER, EVER Forget 911
So, as civilians, we should have nothing to say about police policy? People with guns and a badge in our community and we have no input?
Yes, I cringe when I hear something like "civilian review board" or similar things; too many times it's not just civilians but worse yet (bleck!) politicians (gag!) second guessing the actions of a cop in a tough spot, after the fact, with plenty of time to dicker over details. Too often, though, the LEO element thinks the dumb joe citizen should just shut up about police affairs.
Sorry for the mini-hijacking of the thread. Short answer: No, you're not wrong to comment on such things. Free speech rules. If they don't like it, fling monkey poo at them![}:)][:D]
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
When a poster's credentials are brought into question, often it is a disguised attempt to discredit an opinion by inventing a demand for expertise where none exists (as in the cases you cite above). I would therefore take such ploys, and comments like "I cannot take you seriously", for what they really are: feeble attempts by those who would try to elevate their own opinions simply by discounting yours. But I think you already know this.
Be responsible
Be intelligent
Be REPUBLICAN
If you say it "matter of factly" and you are wrong then it will slowly discredit you. However, I think it is very common for someone who researches something to know as much or more than those who do it every day.
I've only been in a plane twice in my life, yet I can rattle off useless info and identify most fighter planes made since WWII.
Post away monkeyman, with exception of political posts I enjoy reading your posts. (Don't take that personal, I have all but quit reading policital stuff because it annoys me that people think differently than I do [:D])
The 10mm - either you've got it, or you don't get it...
So Monkey you can certainly continue your vicious Bush "bashing" on this forum. We have come to expect it from you. But when you make out of hand comments you really do have to expect to be reduced to a "urine stain on the carpet" when you do. Keep your arguments to economics and the economy and you will probably do much better in your attempts to discredit the President. Beach
Mudge the rhino
*Couldn't Care Less
And yes...for those who were wondering, the correct term is:
COULDN'T care less.[:D]
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
While we obviously disagree on many political issues,
so what? We all look at these things from different perspectives.
Compare beach and DWS statements on this thread,
there's our difference.[;)]
TOOLS
General TOOLS RRG
Don't go blaming the beer. Hank Hill
So much Ice, So much Beer. So little time. Shooter4
I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem. Hank Hill
When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now that I am grown, I just wish I could act like a child and get away with it.
Therefore, I say unto thee: If thy logic is sound, I will not castigate thee for not being an EXPERT. And for those of us who would, I would remind thee: Argument by Authority is as unsound an approach to take in a debate as Argumentem Ad Hominem, Tu Quoque, Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc, Excluded Middle, Complex Question, or any other recognized fallacy.
wish them to be,
since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be."
Thomas Kempis
Even at that, we vets disagree on some things, but for someone who has never faced the situation to criticize those who are in it, or to attempt to speak for them or about them is a fool. He has no real understanding of what goes on in a war other than what the media tells him. Those are the issues that rub a man who has been there the wrong way.
Opinions to the reasons we are at war and is it just are an open book. Opinions on how it is being conducted should be left to those who know. Bottom line is, there are some issues that people should not interject on when they don't really know what they are talking about. I include some politicians in that statement.
You have to understand that war is not what anyone who hasn't been in it thinks. There are parts of it that you can never talk about, yet someone who has never walked in your shoes will, and tell you where you were wrong. That really burns most of us who were there.
How you doin'!
I know which thread you're referring to, and I was thinking along the same line as you. Funny how if'n you don't agree with someone, they do not challenge your assertions, they challenge you credentials. I say tell 'em to "PACK SAND" and then drive on with your postings.
I enjoy reading your posts, even if I do not agree with some/many/all [}:)][;)] of your posts, I respect your opinion, and appreciate the time and effort you take to contribute an alternate view of many issues here on the site.
NSDQ!
"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me." -Isaiah 6:8
Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
It comes down to credibility. If you have no first hand experience of what you are opining on, you have much less credibility than someone who has first hand experience.
My $.02
From
And everything in between.
EMM, you and I have "discussed" many topics here on GB, some I agreed with and some I didnt but I'll be dammned if I said you didnt have the right to voice your views. Thats what it is, your views, I dont have to agree or even comment on them if I dont want.
Just because someone is not and "expert" on a topic does not mean that they cannot expouse a view on that subject. If someone has a different view or data to contradict what you posted then let them post it as a rebuttal.
I voice my views on a myriad of subjects, some I have considerable experience with and others I dont really know squat about, I can and will share those thoughts and views as I see fit and so should you.
To use an old saying and I may not have this entirely correct:
"I may not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Having said that, dont expect us to take long showers together till the wee hours of the morning.
JuJu( who is an opinionated jerk, comments welcome)
Thank you all for the insightful, articulate, and sometimes humorous reponses.
However, as some of you pointed out, it's easy to get upset when someone who doesn't know the intimate details of a particular topic makes light of them. It's easy to forget that for some people, these topics are deeply personal and must be tread upon lightly by those who admittedly have no firsthand experience. Just as I can take umbrage at a seemingly knee-jerk response, so can others take offense at my supposedly flippant remarks.
I will continue to speak my mind. I have no intention of silencing myself. But I do hope to watch my words and how I say them more carefully in the future. You folks deserve better and I'm certainly capable of more than I have sometimes been guilty of.
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
Rather than soundbites of "who did what to whom" I'd rather see some focus on the issues of the campaign rather than getting in the gutter and splashing dung all around.... When the Monkey talks about the issues he can make a lot of people nervous. When he made comments about Kerry or Bush's qualifications he only sounded rediculous. And Monkey I do appreciate your last addition to the thread. All the best to everyone, Beach.
P.S. I did make my patrols in Mogadishu in a LARC which certainly qualifies as a combat river craft even if we were driving it down the street.....it sure confused the local Somali's when they saw the propellor and rudder under the hull. Beach
I will continue to speak my mind. I have no intention of silencing myself. But I do hope to watch my words and how I say them more carefully in the future. You folks deserve better and I'm certainly capable of more than I have sometimes been guilty of.
Now that's the old Monkey we all know and love.[;)]
How you doin'!
Gentlemen:
I may live in sunny Tucson, AZ and not some cold, wet, or snowy clime. However, my father, God rest his soul, taught me well enough to understand that you don't stand in the danged doorway, TRYING TO HEAT THE GREAT OUTDOORS!
COME inside, SHUT the door behind you, TAKE off your coat/wraps, MAKE yourself comfortable in the chair with a drink (warm or cold, your choice) and THEN you may espouse your opinions! Sheesh!
Now....what were you saying, EMM?
Big Al
Like that would really happen.
Just kidding.
Someone had to say it.
Couldn't help myself.
Keep postin away.
There are some here who agree with you more than disagree. [;)]
The gene pool needs chlorine.
"Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
Just my opinion....
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
"We are all ignorant, just on different subjects".
(gotta love the fellow Okie) [:)]
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
You: As I recollect, the military wasn't turning anybody down for service to Vietnam.
Me: And we should take YOUR recollection to the bank?
You: "Flying is dangerous but not THAT dangerous..." (direct quote)
Me: "How many hours of flying time do YOU have in a combat aircraft?" (direct quote)
If you disagree I WILL find the thread.
Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.
Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
She was only a fisherman's daughter,
But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Most of you know he was dropped from flight status in the early 70's (71 or 72), so how much "dangerous" flying did he face? [}:)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
We will read them...[;)]
How many USN personnel were killed while on river patrol in VN during the same period 1967-1973?