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Iraqis call Lynndie England jail term travesty
HAIRY
Member Posts: 23,606
Iraqis call Lynndie England jail term travesty
Sep 28 6:34 AM US/Eastern
By Waleed Ibrahim
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqis expressed fury on Wednesday over the three-year jail sentence for Lynndie England, the U.S. soldier notorious for holding a naked inmate by a leash in Abu Ghraib prison, saying it exposed American hypocrisy.
They said the sentence would have been more harsh had she been convicted of abusing Americans.
"America should be ashamed of this sentence. This is the best evidence that Americans have double standards," said Akram Abdel Amir, a retired bus driver in Baghdad.
"There are Iraqis in jail without any charge, just based on suspicion. But when it comes to Americans, the matter is totally different."
England, 22, was sentenced on Tuesday by a U.S. military court after being convicted of abuse, including being photographed pointing to the genitals of a naked Iraqi prisoner.
The former West Virginia chicken factory worker, who had faced a maximum sentence of nine years, was also given a dishonorable discharge.
She is the last of a group of U.S. soldiers to be convicted of abuse at Abu Ghraib, including her former boyfriend and the father of her child, Charles Graner, who is serving 10 years.
"If the abuse was committed against Americans I am sure the sentence would be much harsher. The sentence is nothing compared to what she has done," said laborer Muntasser Abdel Moneim, 30.
RESENTMENT
The prosecution asked the jury for a sentence of four to six years. England was found guilty on six counts on Monday.
The prisoner abuse scandal provoked global outrage and deepened Iraqi resentment of occupying U.S. troops.
In pre-sentencing testimony, England said she was sorry for her actions but remained an American patriot.
Iraqis remember her as the American soldier who held an inmate by a leash like the kind used for dogs, a highly degrading act because Iraqis and other Muslims regard the animals as unclean.
The images of a smiling England abusing naked inmates were especially humiliating in Iraq, a male-dominated society.
"The whole thing is theater. The Americans want to pretend they defend human rights and are a civilized nation," said Munir Abdel Sahib, a university lecturer.
"I believe that England would not have committed these crimes without orders from above."
In court testimony, England blamed her involvement on Graner, the abuse ringleader, who is now married to another woman who pleaded guilty to abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
"There is no justice in this sentence because the pictures were very shameful. She has to get more years in jail and she has to be imprisoned in Iraq," said Najaat al-Azawi, 55, a retired engineer.
Grocery store owner Hussein Ali said the fact that England faced trial was positive but stressed justice was not served.
"It means the Americans can get away with everything in Iraq. Three years is not enough for what she has done."
U.S. forces are holding about 11,800 prisoners at several detention centers in Iraq, including 4,000 at Abu Ghraib.
Iraqi families, human rights groups and some Iraqi government ministers, including the justice minister, complain too many Iraqis are being wrongfully detained for too long without due process.
Paraphrasing Mark Twain: It's not what you know that makes you look stupid, it's what you know that just ain't so.
Volenti non fit injuria
Sep 28 6:34 AM US/Eastern
By Waleed Ibrahim
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqis expressed fury on Wednesday over the three-year jail sentence for Lynndie England, the U.S. soldier notorious for holding a naked inmate by a leash in Abu Ghraib prison, saying it exposed American hypocrisy.
They said the sentence would have been more harsh had she been convicted of abusing Americans.
"America should be ashamed of this sentence. This is the best evidence that Americans have double standards," said Akram Abdel Amir, a retired bus driver in Baghdad.
"There are Iraqis in jail without any charge, just based on suspicion. But when it comes to Americans, the matter is totally different."
England, 22, was sentenced on Tuesday by a U.S. military court after being convicted of abuse, including being photographed pointing to the genitals of a naked Iraqi prisoner.
The former West Virginia chicken factory worker, who had faced a maximum sentence of nine years, was also given a dishonorable discharge.
She is the last of a group of U.S. soldiers to be convicted of abuse at Abu Ghraib, including her former boyfriend and the father of her child, Charles Graner, who is serving 10 years.
"If the abuse was committed against Americans I am sure the sentence would be much harsher. The sentence is nothing compared to what she has done," said laborer Muntasser Abdel Moneim, 30.
RESENTMENT
The prosecution asked the jury for a sentence of four to six years. England was found guilty on six counts on Monday.
The prisoner abuse scandal provoked global outrage and deepened Iraqi resentment of occupying U.S. troops.
In pre-sentencing testimony, England said she was sorry for her actions but remained an American patriot.
Iraqis remember her as the American soldier who held an inmate by a leash like the kind used for dogs, a highly degrading act because Iraqis and other Muslims regard the animals as unclean.
The images of a smiling England abusing naked inmates were especially humiliating in Iraq, a male-dominated society.
"The whole thing is theater. The Americans want to pretend they defend human rights and are a civilized nation," said Munir Abdel Sahib, a university lecturer.
"I believe that England would not have committed these crimes without orders from above."
In court testimony, England blamed her involvement on Graner, the abuse ringleader, who is now married to another woman who pleaded guilty to abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
"There is no justice in this sentence because the pictures were very shameful. She has to get more years in jail and she has to be imprisoned in Iraq," said Najaat al-Azawi, 55, a retired engineer.
Grocery store owner Hussein Ali said the fact that England faced trial was positive but stressed justice was not served.
"It means the Americans can get away with everything in Iraq. Three years is not enough for what she has done."
U.S. forces are holding about 11,800 prisoners at several detention centers in Iraq, including 4,000 at Abu Ghraib.
Iraqi families, human rights groups and some Iraqi government ministers, including the justice minister, complain too many Iraqis are being wrongfully detained for too long without due process.
Paraphrasing Mark Twain: It's not what you know that makes you look stupid, it's what you know that just ain't so.
Volenti non fit injuria
Comments
It's deja vu all over again.
WW2 Germans and Japanese and Korean War Chinese would know how to deal with the situation, we don't.
Get used to it a-holes; women actually are people. Not some commodity you can buy and sell.
Sako Fan
He's a dead man walking.
I don't think the humiliation they inflicted on the Iraqi prisoners deserved any jail time. What they did was wrong and they should loose their jobs, ie. discharged, but the punishment doesn't fit the "crime" in my opinion.
SALLY
Committee member-Ducks Unlimited
does anyone else think she looks like Lou Diamond Phillips????
like the offspring of Lou Diamond Phillips and the Pilsbury Doughboy.
Messenger Boy: The Thesselonian you're fighting... he's the biggest man i've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: Thats why no-one will remember your name.
I bet she geta pardoned
Messenger Boy: The Thesselonian you're fighting... he's the biggest man i've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: Thats why no-one will remember your name.
If Clinton was in office all she'd have to do for a pardon is to get down on her knees and make a bid for clemency.
sure is, get used to it akbar
now is it me or does she look like she will enjoy being locked up with a bunch of women for three years??
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)
I guess they're proud of their little Irakette who did the suicide bomb this week killing several Iraki.
I gather most all of the idiot England's captives survived her "brutality."
Anyway, I think the angry Iraqis (of course you can always find angry Iraqis when you work for Al-Reuters and have an angle to grind) might want to cast their eyes over at their countrymen who are blowing civilians to kindgom come, rather than look for harsh punishment for frat-boy like humiliation of prisoners.
Wasn't she in the National Guard? I'd say legally they can not send her to Federal Prison for this. The President ordered her State's Guard to go to Iraq. Therefor she ended up on Federal Duty....and ended up "breaking" the law by humiliating some prisoners. I'd say it is the Presidents fault for sending part time military over there anyways. Just ask Matt45, a Guard himself...he says they are unable to perform the job and people like Blackwater should be in there. Then atleast the President could have plausible denial for actions.
But Bush doesn't have an excuse on why he's only punishing the lowest ranks and NOT the higher ups that are paid to train and manage forces as well as ensure they are doing the job properly.
This stupid little girl is just a scapegoat.
I mean, did we go to war for the right to strip Iraqi men naked and torment, torture, and humiliate them?
Oh well... scratch WMDs, scratch spreading democracy... I think we know the real reason now.[}:)]
quote:Originally posted by Red223
quote:Wasn't she in the National Guard? I'd say legally they can not send her to Federal Prison for this. The President ordered her State's Guard to go to Iraq. Therefor she ended up on Federal Duty... Jackazz-She's a Reservist, and when on Federal orders, or even Active Duty for Training, she is subject to the UCMJ. Damn, you're pinhead at times....but the following takes the cake:
quote:Just ask Matt45, a Guard himself...he says they are unable to perform the job and people like Blackwater should be in there. Then atleast the President could have plausible denial for actions.
It's AMAZING the fabrications you dream up, is that learned at DNC Indoctination Camp? I never hinted anything of the sort, nor alluded to any such concept. Your statement holds ZERO validity, and proves what a lyin' scuzzwort you really are.
Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
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Guess what?
You have the wrong hands.
"Gunner sabot tank! Identify! UP! Fire! ON THE WAY!!" <<boom>>
"It's all about shot placement..."
Showing mercy on her is a good lesson for the Iraqis, i.e. "what would Saddam do?", ok, we'll do the opposite.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
~Sinclair Lewis, It Can't Happen Here
"Our enemies...never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
~President George W. Bush
Iraqis call Lynndie England jail term travesty
Sep 28 6:34 AM US/Eastern
By Waleed Ibrahim
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqis expressed fury on Wednesday over the three-year jail sentence for Lynndie England, the U.S. soldier notorious for holding a naked inmate by a leash in Abu Ghraib prison, saying it exposed American hypocrisy.
They said the sentence would have been more harsh had she been convicted of abusing Americans....Yep, they are so right about American hypocrisy. Hell, in America she would have been well paid by the naked guy on the leash to have his picture taken![:0][:o)]
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"
. and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."[V]
NRA Life Member
MOLON LABE!
An evil tree bears evil fruit. You can destroy as much fruit as you want, but it will always grow back, and it will always be evil.
Tear the tree out of the ground by the roots and burn it. Burn it to ash and grind out the embers with your boot until there's nothing left. Not a single spark. Not a single seed.
which Iraqis?
where was the outrage for all of the millions of excutions , rapes, warfare that were all much worse that what she did (just not us caused.). This was just written for the NY times crowd
Thought she was a Guard not a Reservist. But her job was just prisoner logging, she would write down how many they had..etc.. Her job was not actually in the Prison Cell area.
So she was allowed to come back and hang with the boys on her off-duty time. Whomever was responsible for the Prison Cell area allowed her to do what she did for a very, very, long time. Brian Maass, an attorney that interviewed her said we should expect even more pictures of her to surface...as she was boning GI's in front of the prisoners and doing much much more.
But if anyone recalls the Pentagon sent President Bush a memo saying he is not restrained by US/UN Torture laws when the issue came up at Gitmo.
And according to Reuters:
"""The United States Justice Department has broadened its legal definition of torture, revising a controversial memorandum that embarrassed the Bush administration during the Abu Ghraib prison scandal in Iraq.
The memo, drafted by Alberto Gonzales, the incoming US attorney-general, had stated that only organ failure, impairment of * function or death would constitute torture that would be punishable by law.
The Justice Department has now stressed that torture is abhorrent both to American laws and values and to international norms.
The new definition states that torture can consist of acts that do not cause excruciating pain, highlighting the fact that those who conduct harmful interrogations could be open to prosecution.""
General Karpinski who was in charge of the prison only got an LOA. An LOA is a piece of paper saying you were a bad boy and when you change duty stations it gets thrown away or after some time they throw it away. It is a worthless piece of paper.
Therefor I expect her charges will be dropped in the appeal process as the US Justice Department admitted to allowing things England did to be acceptable interogation methods for the Armed Forces/US Govt.
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member
She looked like she was having fun and that is what probably pee'd everyone off. You can't even have fun at work anymore, whats this world comming too.
PJ
No kidding. You can't train soldiers to show this kind of initiative during wartime...somehow... some soldiers are just able to rise to the occasion. She could have been the first woman to earn the Medal of Honor...but Nooooooooo! Couple of racy photos show up and she's treated like some kind of psycho tramp! It's a double standard if you ask me.
Too short.
You see, the idea was/is to make Ahmad think if he is taken prisoner, this will happen to him, hence Ahmad is motivated to fight to the death, rather than being humiliated like the "actors" are in the film/pics. The supposed incidents showing a FEMALE doing the "torturing" just make it all the more horrifying to the Islamis psyche!
This results in savings of capital expenditures for the care, feeding of prisoners, manpower for guards who could otherwise be out putting lead into these sheetheads.
*LOL* I HAD TO TRY![:D]