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BoeBoe, we shall see, we shall see. It is getting harder and harder to get drunk get a civilized high unless there is a designated driver. It would be easy to get a DUI and I would probably lose my job. Or at the very least limit my advancement.
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
quote:Originally posted by jbjm04
is that everything[?]
Exactly what are you planning to defend your family against? Roaming hordes of Latinos intent on your freeze-dried peaches? Gubmint agents with kevlar kneepads checking under your bed for links to Al Qaeda? Young punks coming in the night to steal the sterling tea cozy you got from Aunt Viv? Conveniently, all these fantasies involve yet another fantasy, an "assault rifle"; you imagine yourself with a double-serrated Gerber in your teeth and ten loaded magazines by your side, downing foe after foe from a clever position of cover and concealment, glorious, victorious, making it through another day of defending hearth and home just in time for American Idol. And later, by Coleman light, you will clean your trusty AK or AR or whatever and smile, confident in the wisdom of your purchase and in God's good grace.
Lots of people use shotguns. Lots use pistols or revolvers. I don't know if he's asking about "home" defense or "home territory" defense, though. I say, if you want an AR or an AK or HK or M1A, then just buy one![:D]
Get a Craftsman Air Brad Nailer like me. It's gas operated (can't really assault without gas opertion) and depth control should always be set at max cause you wanna go deep. Besides it's real handy to use around the shop. Oh, and lots of that pretty yellow coil air hose in case you need to assault them out in the yard too. BTW, it'll double duty for a fly swatter in a pinch. MIKE
Everyone's got there favorite. I would have to say that FAL type rifles are my favorite. I like the firepower that the .308win produces, and the adjustable gas system is nice. I like the idea of a gas piston rather than a direct gas tube like say on an ar type rifle.
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
I have seen members here who apparently strongly object to the term "assault rifle", but will use the term "battle rifle" to describe a general class of weapon. Is there really a significant diffgerence between the terms "assault rifle" and
"battle rifle" that one term is acceptable, and the other is not? Hogwash.
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
Completely WRONG down the line. You have yet to produce any document contemporary to its introduction that translates Sturm (as in Sturmgewehr) as "assault" rather than the traditional translation "Storm" (as in Sturmtruppen ("Stormtrooper") coined fifty years before introduction of the StG44. Wrong again because the current StG58 does not fit the "assault rifle" designation because it fires a full-power --not intermediate power-- cartridge. And wrong again because no military in the world has ever referred to any shoulder weapon in its inventory as a "Battle Rifle" or "Assault Rifle"; the terms were made up by civilian gun writers to make some arbitrary distinction between .308 vs 5.56/7.62x39 military weapons, and that is all. That you hold to your lame beliefs without producing any support for them speaks volumes. Again, provide a single historical or military record written contemporary to the StG44's introduction that refers to the weapon as an "Assault" rifle or was "The first assault rifle". Fact is, you can't, and this because it was not called that until some civilian gun rag hacks retroactively decided it fit a description of a class of weapons they taxonomized twenty years later. So go spout your misinformed garbage elsewhere, skyking; nobody's buying it here any more. You're just a reader who bought into whatever Guns&Ammo and Soldier of Fortune staffers pulled out of their * to sell copy.
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
Completely WRONG down the line. You have yet to produce any document contemporary to its introduction that translates Sturm (as in Sturmgewehr) as "assault" rather than the traditional translation "Storm" (as in Sturmtruppen ("Stormtrooper") coined fifty years before introduction of the StG44. Wrong again because the current StG58 does not fit the "assault rifle" designation because it fires a full-power --not intermediate power-- cartridge. And wrong again because no military in the world has ever referred to any shoulder weapon in its inventory as a "Battle Rifle" or "Assault Rifle"; the terms were made up by civilian gun writers to make some arbitrary distinction between .308 vs 5.56/7.62x39 military weapons, and that is all. That you hold to your lame beliefs without producing any support for them speaks volumes. Again, provide a single historical or military record written contemporary to the StG44's introduction that refers to the weapon as an "Assault" rifle or was "The first assault rifle". Fact is, you can't, and this because it was not called that until some civilian gun rag hacks retroactively decided it fit a description of a class of weapons they taxonomized twenty years later. So go spout your misinformed garbage elsewhere, skyking; nobody's buying it here any more. You're just a reader who bought into whatever Guns&Ammo and Soldier of Fortune staffers pulled out of their * to sell copy.
Silly illogical post. Hitler did coin the term himself at a demonstration of the MKb 42. It used the 8mm Kurz which was a shortened 8X57.
After WWII, Springfield Armory adopted the concept and cut down the 7.62X63 (30-06) to an intermediate cartridge called the 7.62X51. What we now call the .308 or 7.62 NATO.
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
My post stands.
And this is the sum of your proof? Because you say so, your post stands? You've been challenged repeatedly to prove your claim and you have yet to do it, instead merely saying over and over "My post stands". No, it doesn't. And until you do prove your claim, you are just puking back the same old gun rag mythology without a shred of proof of any other source.
I guess. Doesnt really make a difference to me,its just a term none the less. I can assault you with a salad fork.....hence the term "assault fork"[:D]
quote:Originally posted by SG
I guess. Doesnt really make a difference to me,its just a term none the less. I can assault you with a salad fork.....hence the term "assault fork"[:D]
It would not be assault, it would be foreplay. Don
quote:Originally posted by SG
I guess. Doesnt really make a difference to me,its just a term none the less.
And that is exactly the problem. It isn't just a term; it's a term that refers to nothing other than a legal aggregate of parts or features that betray actual purpose or intent. What is it about a high capacity magazine and pistol grip that makes a semi-auto rifle an "assault rifle"? What is it that makes one AR15 legal and another one identical to it save a bayonet lug illegal? The term is not used by the military, so to what--other than an arbitrary legal definition--does the term "assault rifle" refer? Answer: Nothing. It is an invention, a contrivance, a means to legally manage and control a class of otherwise perfectly legal semi-automatic firearms. Enter Skyking and you; Skyking insists the term refers to something real, one which in fact had its beginning by name with Hitler in WWII, and you don't give a crap. No matter that there is no historical evidence whatsoever, Skyking will insist on the point simply because somebody said so in the 1966 edition of Guns of the World or October 1980 issue of Soldier of Fortune (which no doubt were the sources for Wikipedia). But where is the historicism to support it? I mean, how friggin' difficult could it be? Sorry, but this is how urban legends and myths get started. Unfortunately, we have had our RKBA jacked around ever since because of it.
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
I have seen members here who apparently strongly object to the term "assault rifle", but will use the term "battle rifle" to describe a general class of weapon. Is there really a significant diffgerence between the terms "assault rifle" and
"battle rifle" that one term is acceptable, and the other is not? Hogwash.
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
All of us gunners could save a lot of blood and time if we simply agreed that we don't care how/where the term assault or battle rifle came from . We could make progress just by agreeing that we want to STAMP OUT THE TERMS. The terms are working for the anti-gun side and against our side. Everytime the terms are used, it is like free anti-gun propaganda for the anti-gun side. Just the same as if we foolishly let the anti-gun side add the term "evil" everytime they or the media mentioned guns. If they could get away with that (yeah, I know it is just an extreme example, but still an example) then they could kill us gun people just by causing wide spread use of the term "evil gun".
Let's just agree to try and stamp out the two terms. We can start by not using the terms ourselves AND by challeging people when they use it.
THE INSTITUTE FOR RESEARCH ON
SMALL ARMS IN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY
1847 Vernon Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009
Telephone (202) 234-0683
ASSAULT RIFLE FACT SHEET #1
DEFINITIONS AND BACKGROUND
Recent discussions of so-called "assault rifles" in both the
media and legislative arenas have seen imprecise usage of the
terms used to describe such firearms. This fact sheet is designed
to improve the technical accuracy of future discussions.
ASSAULT RIFLE: This term was coined during World War II. It is a
translation of the German "Sturmgewehr." Two key
characteristics that identify "assault rifles" are
full automatic fire and detachable magazines with
a capacity of 20 or more cartridges. These weapons
were designed to produce roughly aimed bursts of
full automatic fire. While some assault rifles
offer an option of semiautomatic fire (i.e.,
single-shot), all true assault rifles fire at
least fully automatic.
SELF-LOADING: Weapons generally called semiautomatic today were
originally called self-loading. This more precise
term indicates that the fired cartridge provides
energy to reload the weapon for the next shot.
Such self-powered arms may be semiautomatic, full
automatic, or have a means of selecting one or the
other.
SEMIAUTOMATIC: In such weapons, the operating mechanism is
designed to permit only a single shot, with each
pull of the trigger.
AUTOMATIC: In such weapons, the operating mechanism is
designed to permit the discharge of multiple shots
with each pull of the trigger. Firing ceases when
the shooter releases the trigger.
BURST FIRE: Multiple shots during automatic fire are called
bursts. These can either be controlled by the
shooter's manipulation of the trigger or by a
mechanical device built into the weapon that
interrupts the automatic cycle after a preset
number of shots have been discharged; e.g., 3-
shots or 5-shots.
Ownership of automatic or burst fire weapons has
been regulated by Federal laws since the 1930s
through revenue taxes enforced by the Treasury
Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms.
RATE OF FIRE: All automatic weapons have a theoretical cyclic
rate of fire that is expressed in shots per minute
(s.p.m.) or rounds per minute (r.p.m.). This is
the rate of fire that would be attained if the
weapon could be fired continuously without need
for reloading. In actual practice the number of
shots that can be delivered from any self-loading
weapon is limited by shooter skill, especially the
need to reload.
PRACTICAL RATE
OF FIRE: With weapons such as the military 5.56mm m16A1
rifle and the 7.62mm AKM rifle the maximum rates
of fire for a well trained shooter are as follows:
An average or less experienced shooter can deliver
about half as many shots per minute. The shooter's
probability of hitting a target with a self-loading
rifle when pulling the trigger as rapidly as possible
is about 1 hit in 5 shots fired.
CATEGORIZING SELF-LOADING RIFLES BY CALIBER
Modern military-type rifles (automatics and semiautomatics)
are generally categorized by the class of cartridge they use.
-- Full power rifle ammunition: This includes rifles such as
the M14, FAL and G3 that shoot the 7.62 x 51mm NATO
cartridge.
-- Intermediate rifle ammunition: This includes rifles such as
the Kalashnikov-type ("AK-47") imported from China, Egypt,
Hungary, Finland, and Yugoslavia that shoot the 7.62 x 39mm
cartridge.
-- Small caliber, high velocity rifle ammunition: This includes
rifles such as the M16 series, the Mini-14, AUG and others
that fire the 5.56 x 45mm cartridge.
-- Weapons firing the US .30 Carbine cartridge: The US M2
carbine is an example of a firearm that shoots the
relatively low power 7.62 x 33mm cartridge.
Semiautomatic variants of many of the world's automatic
("assault") rifles have been sold in the United States since the
end of World War II. A majority of these sales occurred since the
passage of the Federal "Gun Control Act of 1968." That law banned
further importation of surplus military rifles, most of which
were of the manually operated bolt-action-type. It is estimated
that approximately four million semiautomatic variants of
"assault rifles" are held by private individuals in the United
States.
The vast majority of semiautomatic military style rifles
sold in the United States are military rifles that have been
specifically modified to permit only semiautomatic fire and to
thwart easy conversion to automatic fire. These modifications
must be made in compliance with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms guidelines, and they must be approved by BATF prior to
importation and/or sale of the firearm in the United States.
ADDITIONAL READING ABOUT ASSAULT RIFLES
Edward C. Ezell, "Small Arms Today: Latest Reports on the World's
Small Arms" (Stackpole Books, 1988).
A country-by-country review of infantry weapons (25mm or
smaller in caliber) usage. The types of weapons are
described, and data is presented on the origin of such
weapons. Many supplier-client relationships are explained.
This book grows out of continuing interest in the transfer
of small arms by the nations manufacturing such weapons.
R. Blake Stevens and Edward C. Ezell, "The Black Rifle: M16
Rifle Retrospective" (Collector Grade Publications, Inc.:
Toronto, 1987).
A history of the development and production of the M16
rifle.
Edward C. Ezell, "The AK-47 Story: Evolution of the Kalashnikov
Weapons" (Stackpole Books, 1986).
Narrative history of military rifles in Russia and the
Soviet Union, 1800 to present. Describes world wide
production of Kalashnikov assault rifles.
Edward C. Ezell, "The Great Rifle Controversy: Search for the
Ultimate Infantry Rifle from World War II to Vietnam and
Beyond" (Stackpole Books, 1984).
Narrative history examining issues related to US and NATO
small arms research, development and acquisition from 1945
to 1984, concentrating on the history of the M14 rifle and
M16 rifle development programs.
"Small Arms of the World: A Basic Manual of Small Arms," 12th
edition (Stackpole Books, 1983).
The first five chapters of this encyclopedia summarize the
development of small arms from 1945 to 1983.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ASSAULT RIFLE FACT SHEET #2
QUANTITIES OF SEMI-AUTOMATIC "ASSAULT RIFLES"
OWNED IN THE UNITED STATES
RIFLES OF AMERICAN MANUFACTURE
Colt AR-15 caliber .223 to date 279,600
Springfield Armory Inc. M14A caliber .308 to date 60,000
Springfield Armory Inc. R3 (Copy of HK91) cal. .308 to date 1,000
Springfield Armory Inc. FAL caliber .308 to date 6,000
Springfield Armory Inc. BM59 caliber .308 to date 500
Ruger Mini-14 caliber .30 to date 500,000+
Commercial and surplus US M1 .caliber .30 to date 700,000+
US Government sales and GI souvenirs US M1 cal. .30 to date 1,500,000+
est.
RIFLES OF FOREIGN MANUFACTURE
(imports)
China AK-type rifles caliber .223 and 7.62mm to date 90,000
China SKS w/detachable magazine 7.62mm to date 25,000
Finland (Valmet) AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 16,000
Hungary AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 7,000
Yugoslavia AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 4,000
Israel Galil .223 and .308 to date 9,000
Israel M14 (built from surplus parts) .308 to date 16,000
Israel FAL (built from surplus parts--Armscorp) .308 to date 3,000
Argentina FAL (Armscorp) .308 to date 4,000
FN FAL and FNC .308/.223 to date 25,000
West Germany (HK91) caliber.308 to date 38,000
West Germany (HK93) caliber .223 to date 8,510
Beretta BM-59 caliber .308 to date 2,000
Switzerland SIG 510 and SIG 550 caliber .308 and .223 to date 1,000
Austria Steyr AUG caliber .223 to date 5,000
Korea K1 and K2 (similar to AR-15) caliber .223 to date 25,000
Miscellaneous to date 25,000
QUANTITIES OF SEMI-AUTOMATIC SUB-CARBINES
(firing pistol ammunition)
OWNED IN THE UNITED STATES
Sub-Carbines of American Manufacture
Marlin Camp Carbine caliber 9mm and .45 to date 3,000
Volunteer and other makers "Commando" carbine caliber
9mm and .45 to date 40,000
Cobray, MAC and other makers MAC10-type semiautos
caliber 9mm and .45 to date 50,000
Intratec and Intertec TEC9 caliber 9mm to date 110,000
Numrich 1927A1 Thompson Semiautos caliber .45 to date 16,000
Miscellaneous: AP9 etc. to date 40,000
Sub-Carbines of Foreign Manufacture
(imports)
Israel Uzi (carbines and pistols) caliber 9mm and .45 to date 90,000
West Germany HK 94 caliber 9mm (30% sold to law
enforcement) to date 16,200
United Kingdom Sterling MK6 caliber 9mm to date 1,000
Miscellaneous to date 5,000
ESTIMATED TOTAL 371,200
This explains it perfectly. I C&P this off another website.
One of the biggest problems pro-gunners (& especially Absolutists) face is public relations. Good old fashioned PR. We keep getting our * kicked on it & there are a few reasons why.
One of the most prevalent is that terms we either take for granted or don't know exists wind up being used against us. Take "pistol grip" for instance. A few months back there was much talk over a sporting shotgun that was gifted to Sen. Kerry having been subject to a weapons ban he co-sponsored. One of the main talking points was whether or not his shotgun had a pistol grip or not. It did but most people, including some avid gun toting folks, didn't realize it.
Now the term "pistol grip" had been used amongst gun makers & owners since sometime in the mid 19th century, but the anti-gun crowd in the past few decades did such an effective job of commandeering our language that a lot of people thought the gun control lobby's definition was the correct one. So let's look at a few terms that the anti-gun lobby has used to our detriment, along with the actual definition of each term:
Pistol Grip
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A conspicuously protruding grip underneath the action of the gun, usually with a sharp angle, designed to allow accurate spray fire from the hip without the need to aim.
The actual definition - An area underneath or behind the receiver that is curved or angled to facilitate a better grip with the strong hand.
Assault Weapon
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
Saturday Night Special
The anti's - A cheap handgun (in terms of price) that will flood the poorer neighborhoods & cause an increase in violence involving firearms.
The actual definition - First, we must recognize that the origin of the term is black persontown Saturday Night. "Saturday night special" is merely a variant on that phrase. Next, we must look at who would be most affected by a ban on these firearms - poor people. Simply put, it's a phrase designed to vilify handguns that poor people can afford that came about through altering a racist term. But then again gun control, racism & elitism have usually been linked.
High Powered
The anti's - Any firearm that can cause damage to an object it hits. For example the SKS & AR-15 are high powered assault weapons.
The actual definition - A cartridge that produces a certain amount of energy &/or velocity from a rifle. There is no distinct number for either velocity or energy but generally rifle cartridges that fire a 150 grain projectile close to 3,000 feet per second would be considered high power. Also High Power is the title of a very popular type of rifle competition. But to provide examples a .30-06 Springfield or a .300 Winchester Magnum would be considered high power. The 7.62x39 (the cartridge most often used in the SS & AK-47 variants) & the 5.56x45 (very similar, but not identical to the .223 Remington & used in most AR-15 type rifles) would be considered intermediate cartridges. & the cartridge, not the firearm is what the term refers to.
Point Blank Range
The anti's - A distance very very close.
The actual definition - The distance which you can shoot & hit a certain sized target without adjusting your sights. Let's say you have a rifle chambered in .30-06 that shoots 2" groups at 100 yards & you're shooting at a target that's 10 inches in diameter. Let's also say that you have your sights set so the bullet will hit 4" high at 100 yards. That means you can aim at the top of the target & hit it at a distance of 335 yards or so without adjusting the sights (assuming you're firing a 168 grain boat tail hollow point with a ballistic coefficient of .450 at roughly 2,650 feet per second with sight 1.5" above the center of the bore). That's point blank range. It's not only cartridge dependent, but target dependent as well. Using our above example if our target was only 5 inches in diameter, then our point blank range would drop to 75 yards unless we altered our sights before hand (as the above listed example would hit a height of 4" at 100 yards & with the 2" variable of the rifle that'd mean at the 3 inch mar we'd have to alter our sights to make a hit on the target). If we changed it to hit 2.5" high at 100 yards then our point blank range for a 5 inch diameter target would be around 260 yards.
Most gun owners are not aware of the actual definition & instead have taken the anti's version as gospel. This is even sadder as the anti's definition is all implication. I have never heard an anti or reporter (wait- that was redundant) explain exactly what point blank range is, only that the term is used to imply that the distance was short, say within a few feet. On a man sized target one should assume that the point blank range for any rifle cartridge is at least 200 yards, & with most pistol cartridges at least 75 yards if not 100. Even the lowly .22 Long Rifle has a point blank range of roughly 140 yards (assuming a 12 inch tall torso is being shot at). It's just not nearly as descriptive a term as most people think.
Junk Guns
The anti's - Inexpensive handguns that are not safe due to their low price & are the choice of criminals in low income areas.
The actual definition - As with "Saturday night special" this term is used to drive prohibitions on firearms that are most accessible to those with limited means. The firearms usually labeled as "junk guns" are affordable for most people at prices of $150 or less. The quality of workmanship will not be on par with a firearm costing two to three times what the cheaper guns cost, nor will it stand up to as much use before certain parts wear down. But it will serve its main purpose which is to provide a way for people to defend themselves if they can't afford a more quality firearm. The term itself is an anti-gun lobby invention but its based on a very old premise: disarm the peasants.
Cop Killer Bullet
The anti's - A bullet that will penetrate a bullet proof vest, thus enabling a criminal to kill cops despite their bullet proof armor.
The actual definition - Again this is a term made up by the anti-gun lobby. It relies on a misunderstanding of how bullet proof vests work to achieve the purpose of banning firearms chambered for certain cartridges, or to at minimum ban certain types of ammo.
Bullet proof vests are rated for certain purposes. There is no vest that will stop any & all projectiles fired at it. What the manufacturers of these vests do is give it a rating which means that most of the time a vest with a certain rating will stop certain types of projectiles fired by handguns & in a few cases rifles. Even with a vest rated to stop a .44 magnum you can alter the type of projectile or increase its velocity or weight & defeat a bullet proof vest. when it comes to rifles there are only a few vests that will stop one shot from certain rifle cartridges, & that is accomplished by using ceramic plates in the targeted area 9along with having the vest weigh about 15 pounds). To put it more in perspective, the .30-30 lever action your granddaddy used to hunt deer with will penetrate the majority of bullet proof vests. So will most muzzleloaders that your great great great great great granddaddy used to hunt deer or fight the redcoats. It's simple physics: a vest rated to stop a projectile with a certain amount of kinetic energy will not stop another projectile with more kinetic energy.
So "cop killer bullets" could be (& has been attempted to) construed to cover any & all rifle cartridges as well as a good portion of handgun cartridges used primarily for hunting since its implied definition is simply anything that will penetrate a bullet proof vest.
Sniper Rifle
The anti's - A rifle having the ability to hit a human being at a great range, usually aided by a scope & in such a powerful cartridge that severe injury or death at long distance is possible.
The actual definition - Your hunting rifle, if you take the anti-gun lobby's definition to its logical conclusion.
A sniper rifle as used in the military sense is simply a military rifle (or one altered for military use) that enables a sniper to perform his duties. A certain level of accuracy is required as is a certain level of power in the cartridge, but depending upon the requirements of the specific unit any bolt action hunting rifle chambered in .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield can be made into one with little effort. The main concerns are getting the rifle to shoot acceptable groups (usually around 1 inch at 100 yards, but sometimes smaller depending on the criteria for the unit) & utilize a telescopic sight. About $150 at a gunsmiths shop will turn a Remington 700 in .30-06 into a rifle that could be used by a military or police sniper. Where the duality comes in is that many hunters use rifles that could be handed straight to a military or police sniper without any modification whatsoever.
"Sniper rifle" is merely a term used by the anti-gun lobby to vilify rifles commonly used in hunting & competition, since the criteria for all three endeavors sometimes overlap. It's just a way to desensitize the public to bans on hunting guns. The term's use isn't that different in operation from how they use "assault weapons" to justify bans.
These are not all the terms that the anti-gun lobby has used with devastating effect against us. But it should give you a good idea of how we're getting our * kicked in the PR war we're fighting. To be fair the anti-gun lobby would include most of the mainstream press as well as the gun control groups themselves, since many articles in papers are little more than re-worded press releases from those groups. The mainstream media's understanding of firearms is largely based on information provided by the gun control groups. For whatever reason we have not been that effective in educating journalists as to the technical facts involved in the various issues concerning gun control & gun Rights. This is to our detriment, as a good portion of the public learns about firearms through the mainstream media. I admit at times I was misinformed by a new story over one issue or another. Looking back over those terms I think you'll recognize one or two that you or someone you know was mislead by at some point.
That's how effective their efforts have been: even gun owners have been known to accept their terms at face value.
The only suggestion I have is to thin about the words being used before you start your arguments. It's not always easy, but it'd be preferable to correct an inappropriate definition before moving to the substance of the argument. In some cases by citing the correct definition or pointing out the nonsensical definition being used, you can have the argument right there. After all, if a person is decrying the "point blank range" of a shooting with an "assault weapon" their argument falls apart when you explain what "point blank range" is, point out that most muzzleloaders have a "point blank range" of 100+ yards on a human sized target, & then proceed to show that "assault weapon" has no meaningful definition.
What we need to do is alter the nature of the debate. We need to stop playing defensively & put the anti-gun lobby in that position. It will meet with little success if we continue to allow them to define the terms we use when we argue with them.
SG: I suggest you check the date of your sources. I will wager it was written in the 1970's or after. Correct? This is my point: Like Wikipedia, you regurgitate the same ca-ca invented in some unfounded prior source. Where's the scholarship? Provide a single historical or military record contemporary to introduction of the StG44 calling it an "assault rifle"; provide a single historical or military record contemporary to introduction of the AK47 calling it an "assault rifle"; provide a single historical or military record contemporary to introduction of the M16 calling it an "assault rifle". Else, stop repeating revised history and historical retrospectives written some 20-30 years after the fact by gun rag hacks as evidence. It ain't.
I believe the point that DWS is taking is that the actual term "assault rifle", as defined in the English Language, has been a term that has been arbitrarily used without any clearly defined definition for many years. Literally translated, the term "Sturmgewehr" means "storm rifle", and not "assault rifle". It is through an inexact translation on the term "sturmgewehr" that we credit Hitler with the coining of the term.
If the translation of the term from German to English was precise, most of us would not refer to German "Storm Troopers" as a noteworthy classification of German military. We would look at the original German word for "stormtrooper", which is "sturmmann" and translate this to mean, "assault soldier". Of course, in historical perspective, the term "storm trooper" can be much more easily accepted than the term "assault man".
To be precise, the German term accredited to Hitler is "sturmgewehr", which most literally translated means "storm rifle". Possibly, through the intent of the original German usage, we could come to a translation of "assault rifle", but we would have to begin accepting the term "assault soldier" as though it had a particular meaning as well (I wonder now, what is an "assault soldier". Is there any other kind?).
To complicate things, as I have pointed out, the currently accepted definition of "assault rifle" was not the generally accepted definition in a period of, say, 1955 to 1975. During this period, those firearms, which reasonably resembled military issue rifles, were commonly called "assault rifles" by some within the firearm community. As I pointed out, while Beretta was probably the first to use the term to market their particular version (and definition) of an assault rifle, I would be very, very surprised if they actually came up with the term. Beretta simply grabbed a term that conveyed a general image and used it as a marketing tool to sell their firearm.
And while the term "assault rifle" was being used during this period (say, 1955 to 1975), it was most commonly used to describe military styled rifles in 7.62 NATO caliber. The 5.56 NATO round was basically unheard of during this the first part of this period, and really, very, very few Americans had any interest in the AK47 or SKS rifles, or the 7.62X39 cartridge. Now, what other cartridge could have been generally considered viable (to the US firearm enthusiast) for an "assault rifle" during the period of, say, 1955 to 1965? Considering the history, I can't think of many, nor can I think of many firearms available to the US marketplace during this time chambered for such a caliber.
Of course, the commonly accepted definition of "assault rifle" has changed considerably since those days. You could argue, I suppose, that the current actual definition of "assault rifle" would have to be a select fire/fully automatic firearm. I guess that is fine, if that is what you want to believe. However, in 1994 the US government clearly defined what "assault rifle" was legally, and frankly, isn't the legal definition what matters? Of course, there are still States that accept this definition, and (at least within those States) the term legally means a firearm with particular characteristics. Those characteristics, legally, do not include a provision for caliber, nor do they specify that the firearm is a select fire/fully automatic weapon.
If you care to believe what an on-line dictionary tells you, I suppose that is your prerogative. However, I believe accepting such definitions leave a lot to be desired. Such an acceptance still does not go to the history of how the term evolved what the actual legal definition is (in certain States) and generally misses the point.
That point being, an assault rifle is pretty much what any particular individual defines the term to be. I have heard people, in fact, read posts from people, who use the term to describe a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, or a SKS. This, no doubt, infuriates certain people, but actually, either could probably be effective in an assault situation.
My own feeling is, we should just accept it as a term that will convey a general image of a group of firearms. We should also accept a couple of facts. The term will continue to remain controversial, will mean slightly different things to different people, and, unfortunately, it is here to stay.
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
Yes, well, clearly "storm" is correct. I have decided. The forum and, for that matter, the rest of the nation will now cease the practise of synonymizing where there is actually no synonymity.
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
I dont know why DWS getting his panties in a wad for,I dont support the way the anti gun media portrays the def. of "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" If he read my last post "Assault Weapon
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
The Dept. of Defense guide defines the term "assault rifle" (note: I said "rifle" not "weapon" also as a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powdered cartridge.
I dont know what else to tell you DWS.
quote:Originally posted by SG
I dont know why DWS getting his panties in a wad for,I dont support the way the anti gun media portrays the def. of "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" If he read my last post "Assault Weapon
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
The Dept. of Defense guide defines the term "assault rifle" (note: I said "rifle" not "weapon" also as a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powdered cartridge.
I dont know what else to tell you DWS.
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Yes, well, clearly "storm" is correct. I have decided. The forum and, for that matter, the rest of the nation will now cease the practise of synonymizing where there is actually no synonymity.
Just look at the original post. The starter of this whole, long thread tossed "Mini-14" into his potential selection of "assault rifle".
Again, "assault rifle" is in the eye of the beholder!
quote:Originally posted by jbjm04
I am planning on buying an assult rifle so that I will be better able to defend my family if neededMy question is which type should I buy[?]I HAVE LOOKED AT Ar-15'sMini-14's and ak's I am confussed by all of the "pre ban" hype and over inflated prices Any ideas[?]
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
The terms unicorn, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny are in the dictionary, as well; does that make them real? And as with all notation, words come into being in myriad ways. Question: If the StG44 was the first "assault rifle", how is it that the term "assault rifle" does not appear in any English dictionary until nearly two decades later? If the AK-47 and M16 are "assault rifles", how is it the term did not exist contemporary to their introductions? More, if "assault rifles" are select fire shoulder weapons firing an intermediate cartridge using a detachable magazine, how is it (1) no military in the world refers to such weapons either by name or nomenclature as an "assault rifle", and (2) how can a semi-automatic, civilian look-alike be by definition an "assault rifle" when it does not meet the criteria specified for one? And more, if by definition an "assault rifle" fires an intermediate cartridge but a "battle rifle" fires a full-power cartridge, how is it that an FNC and FAL are both considered an "assault rifle" under the AWB? Simple, because unlike a Buick, the term only exists in language.
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
The terms unicorn, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny are in the dictionary, as well; does that make them real? And as with all notation, words come into being in myriad ways. Question: If the StG44 was the first "assault rifle", how is it that the term "assault rifle" does not appear in any English dictionary until nearly two decades later? If the AK-47 and M16 are "assault rifles", how is it the term did not exist contemporary to their introductions? More, if "assault rifles" are select fire shoulder weapons firing an intermediate cartridge using a detachable magazine, how is it (1) no military in the world refers to such weapons either by name or nomenclature as an "assault rifle", and (2) how can a semi-automatic, civilian look-alike be by definition an "assault rifle" when it does not meet the criteria specified for one? And more, if by definition an "assault rifle" fires an intermediate cartridge but a "battle rifle" fires a full-power cartridge, how is it that an FNC and FAL are both considered an "assault rifle" under the AWB?
Have you really read my posts? You don't see I am on your side now?
Comments
quote:Originally posted by jbjm04
is that everything[?]
Exactly what are you planning to defend your family against? Roaming hordes of Latinos intent on your freeze-dried peaches? Gubmint agents with kevlar kneepads checking under your bed for links to Al Qaeda? Young punks coming in the night to steal the sterling tea cozy you got from Aunt Viv? Conveniently, all these fantasies involve yet another fantasy, an "assault rifle"; you imagine yourself with a double-serrated Gerber in your teeth and ten loaded magazines by your side, downing foe after foe from a clever position of cover and concealment, glorious, victorious, making it through another day of defending hearth and home just in time for American Idol. And later, by Coleman light, you will clean your trusty AK or AR or whatever and smile, confident in the wisdom of your purchase and in God's good grace.
I just got me a warm fuzzy from the imagery.
Lots of people use shotguns. Lots use pistols or revolvers. I don't know if he's asking about "home" defense or "home territory" defense, though. I say, if you want an AR or an AK or HK or M1A, then just buy one![:D]
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=49354928
And I just happen to be selling it!
I have seen members here who apparently strongly object to the term "assault rifle", but will use the term "battle rifle" to describe a general class of weapon. Is there really a significant diffgerence between the terms "assault rifle" and
"battle rifle" that one term is acceptable, and the other is not? Hogwash.
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
Clouder..
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
Completely WRONG down the line. You have yet to produce any document contemporary to its introduction that translates Sturm (as in Sturmgewehr) as "assault" rather than the traditional translation "Storm" (as in Sturmtruppen ("Stormtrooper") coined fifty years before introduction of the StG44. Wrong again because the current StG58 does not fit the "assault rifle" designation because it fires a full-power --not intermediate power-- cartridge. And wrong again because no military in the world has ever referred to any shoulder weapon in its inventory as a "Battle Rifle" or "Assault Rifle"; the terms were made up by civilian gun writers to make some arbitrary distinction between .308 vs 5.56/7.62x39 military weapons, and that is all. That you hold to your lame beliefs without producing any support for them speaks volumes. Again, provide a single historical or military record written contemporary to the StG44's introduction that refers to the weapon as an "Assault" rifle or was "The first assault rifle". Fact is, you can't, and this because it was not called that until some civilian gun rag hacks retroactively decided it fit a description of a class of weapons they taxonomized twenty years later. So go spout your misinformed garbage elsewhere, skyking; nobody's buying it here any more. You're just a reader who bought into whatever Guns&Ammo and Soldier of Fortune staffers pulled out of their * to sell copy.
Y'alls a bunch a queers...[:X]
Assault queers? Don
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
Completely WRONG down the line. You have yet to produce any document contemporary to its introduction that translates Sturm (as in Sturmgewehr) as "assault" rather than the traditional translation "Storm" (as in Sturmtruppen ("Stormtrooper") coined fifty years before introduction of the StG44. Wrong again because the current StG58 does not fit the "assault rifle" designation because it fires a full-power --not intermediate power-- cartridge. And wrong again because no military in the world has ever referred to any shoulder weapon in its inventory as a "Battle Rifle" or "Assault Rifle"; the terms were made up by civilian gun writers to make some arbitrary distinction between .308 vs 5.56/7.62x39 military weapons, and that is all. That you hold to your lame beliefs without producing any support for them speaks volumes. Again, provide a single historical or military record written contemporary to the StG44's introduction that refers to the weapon as an "Assault" rifle or was "The first assault rifle". Fact is, you can't, and this because it was not called that until some civilian gun rag hacks retroactively decided it fit a description of a class of weapons they taxonomized twenty years later. So go spout your misinformed garbage elsewhere, skyking; nobody's buying it here any more. You're just a reader who bought into whatever Guns&Ammo and Soldier of Fortune staffers pulled out of their * to sell copy.
Silly illogical post. Hitler did coin the term himself at a demonstration of the MKb 42. It used the 8mm Kurz which was a shortened 8X57.
After WWII, Springfield Armory adopted the concept and cut down the 7.62X63 (30-06) to an intermediate cartridge called the 7.62X51. What we now call the .308 or 7.62 NATO.
My post stands.
J'up l'il poop...
quote:Assault queers? Don
J'up l'il poop...
My post stands.
And this is the sum of your proof? Because you say so, your post stands? You've been challenged repeatedly to prove your claim and you have yet to do it, instead merely saying over and over "My post stands". No, it doesn't. And until you do prove your claim, you are just puking back the same old gun rag mythology without a shred of proof of any other source.
Wikipedia says the same thing p3skyking saidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
Isn't that the point?
I guess. Doesnt really make a difference to me,its just a term none the less. I can assault you with a salad fork.....hence the term "assault fork"[:D]
It would not be assault, it would be foreplay. Don
It would not be assault, it would be foreplay. Don
Sturmgelingus?
I guess. Doesnt really make a difference to me,its just a term none the less.
And that is exactly the problem. It isn't just a term; it's a term that refers to nothing other than a legal aggregate of parts or features that betray actual purpose or intent. What is it about a high capacity magazine and pistol grip that makes a semi-auto rifle an "assault rifle"? What is it that makes one AR15 legal and another one identical to it save a bayonet lug illegal? The term is not used by the military, so to what--other than an arbitrary legal definition--does the term "assault rifle" refer? Answer: Nothing. It is an invention, a contrivance, a means to legally manage and control a class of otherwise perfectly legal semi-automatic firearms. Enter Skyking and you; Skyking insists the term refers to something real, one which in fact had its beginning by name with Hitler in WWII, and you don't give a crap. No matter that there is no historical evidence whatsoever, Skyking will insist on the point simply because somebody said so in the 1966 edition of Guns of the World or October 1980 issue of Soldier of Fortune (which no doubt were the sources for Wikipedia). But where is the historicism to support it? I mean, how friggin' difficult could it be? Sorry, but this is how urban legends and myths get started. Unfortunately, we have had our RKBA jacked around ever since because of it.
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
I have seen members here who apparently strongly object to the term "assault rifle", but will use the term "battle rifle" to describe a general class of weapon. Is there really a significant diffgerence between the terms "assault rifle" and
"battle rifle" that one term is acceptable, and the other is not? Hogwash.
The term assault rifle was coined by none other than Adolf Hitler. He called the early full auto weapons that used an intermediate cartridge Sturmgewehr.
The term battle rifle is an American term since there has never been a document using Kampfgewehr The Sturmgewehr designation is still used today in weapons such as the StG 58, a version of the FAL.
While battle rifle has a certain military connotation to it, the generic term infantry rifle or just plain "rifle" is the term most used by the armed forces.
All of us gunners could save a lot of blood and time if we simply agreed that we don't care how/where the term assault or battle rifle came from . We could make progress just by agreeing that we want to STAMP OUT THE TERMS. The terms are working for the anti-gun side and against our side. Everytime the terms are used, it is like free anti-gun propaganda for the anti-gun side. Just the same as if we foolishly let the anti-gun side add the term "evil" everytime they or the media mentioned guns. If they could get away with that (yeah, I know it is just an extreme example, but still an example) then they could kill us gun people just by causing wide spread use of the term "evil gun".
Let's just agree to try and stamp out the two terms. We can start by not using the terms ourselves AND by challeging people when they use it.
SMALL ARMS IN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY
1847 Vernon Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009
Telephone (202) 234-0683
ASSAULT RIFLE FACT SHEET #1
DEFINITIONS AND BACKGROUND
Recent discussions of so-called "assault rifles" in both the
media and legislative arenas have seen imprecise usage of the
terms used to describe such firearms. This fact sheet is designed
to improve the technical accuracy of future discussions.
ASSAULT RIFLE: This term was coined during World War II. It is a
translation of the German "Sturmgewehr." Two key
characteristics that identify "assault rifles" are
full automatic fire and detachable magazines with
a capacity of 20 or more cartridges. These weapons
were designed to produce roughly aimed bursts of
full automatic fire. While some assault rifles
offer an option of semiautomatic fire (i.e.,
single-shot), all true assault rifles fire at
least fully automatic.
SELF-LOADING: Weapons generally called semiautomatic today were
originally called self-loading. This more precise
term indicates that the fired cartridge provides
energy to reload the weapon for the next shot.
Such self-powered arms may be semiautomatic, full
automatic, or have a means of selecting one or the
other.
SEMIAUTOMATIC: In such weapons, the operating mechanism is
designed to permit only a single shot, with each
pull of the trigger.
AUTOMATIC: In such weapons, the operating mechanism is
designed to permit the discharge of multiple shots
with each pull of the trigger. Firing ceases when
the shooter releases the trigger.
BURST FIRE: Multiple shots during automatic fire are called
bursts. These can either be controlled by the
shooter's manipulation of the trigger or by a
mechanical device built into the weapon that
interrupts the automatic cycle after a preset
number of shots have been discharged; e.g., 3-
shots or 5-shots.
Ownership of automatic or burst fire weapons has
been regulated by Federal laws since the 1930s
through revenue taxes enforced by the Treasury
Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms.
RATE OF FIRE: All automatic weapons have a theoretical cyclic
rate of fire that is expressed in shots per minute
(s.p.m.) or rounds per minute (r.p.m.). This is
the rate of fire that would be attained if the
weapon could be fired continuously without need
for reloading. In actual practice the number of
shots that can be delivered from any self-loading
weapon is limited by shooter skill, especially the
need to reload.
PRACTICAL RATE
OF FIRE: With weapons such as the military 5.56mm m16A1
rifle and the 7.62mm AKM rifle the maximum rates
of fire for a well trained shooter are as follows:
M16A1 AKM
semiautomatic: 45/65 s.p.m. 40 s.p.m.
automatic: 100/150 s.p.m. 100 s.p.m.
An average or less experienced shooter can deliver
about half as many shots per minute. The shooter's
probability of hitting a target with a self-loading
rifle when pulling the trigger as rapidly as possible
is about 1 hit in 5 shots fired.
CATEGORIZING SELF-LOADING RIFLES BY CALIBER
Modern military-type rifles (automatics and semiautomatics)
are generally categorized by the class of cartridge they use.
-- Full power rifle ammunition: This includes rifles such as
the M14, FAL and G3 that shoot the 7.62 x 51mm NATO
cartridge.
-- Intermediate rifle ammunition: This includes rifles such as
the Kalashnikov-type ("AK-47") imported from China, Egypt,
Hungary, Finland, and Yugoslavia that shoot the 7.62 x 39mm
cartridge.
-- Small caliber, high velocity rifle ammunition: This includes
rifles such as the M16 series, the Mini-14, AUG and others
that fire the 5.56 x 45mm cartridge.
-- Weapons firing the US .30 Carbine cartridge: The US M2
carbine is an example of a firearm that shoots the
relatively low power 7.62 x 33mm cartridge.
Semiautomatic variants of many of the world's automatic
("assault") rifles have been sold in the United States since the
end of World War II. A majority of these sales occurred since the
passage of the Federal "Gun Control Act of 1968." That law banned
further importation of surplus military rifles, most of which
were of the manually operated bolt-action-type. It is estimated
that approximately four million semiautomatic variants of
"assault rifles" are held by private individuals in the United
States.
The vast majority of semiautomatic military style rifles
sold in the United States are military rifles that have been
specifically modified to permit only semiautomatic fire and to
thwart easy conversion to automatic fire. These modifications
must be made in compliance with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms guidelines, and they must be approved by BATF prior to
importation and/or sale of the firearm in the United States.
ADDITIONAL READING ABOUT ASSAULT RIFLES
Edward C. Ezell, "Small Arms Today: Latest Reports on the World's
Small Arms" (Stackpole Books, 1988).
A country-by-country review of infantry weapons (25mm or
smaller in caliber) usage. The types of weapons are
described, and data is presented on the origin of such
weapons. Many supplier-client relationships are explained.
This book grows out of continuing interest in the transfer
of small arms by the nations manufacturing such weapons.
R. Blake Stevens and Edward C. Ezell, "The Black Rifle: M16
Rifle Retrospective" (Collector Grade Publications, Inc.:
Toronto, 1987).
A history of the development and production of the M16
rifle.
Edward C. Ezell, "The AK-47 Story: Evolution of the Kalashnikov
Weapons" (Stackpole Books, 1986).
Narrative history of military rifles in Russia and the
Soviet Union, 1800 to present. Describes world wide
production of Kalashnikov assault rifles.
Edward C. Ezell, "The Great Rifle Controversy: Search for the
Ultimate Infantry Rifle from World War II to Vietnam and
Beyond" (Stackpole Books, 1984).
Narrative history examining issues related to US and NATO
small arms research, development and acquisition from 1945
to 1984, concentrating on the history of the M14 rifle and
M16 rifle development programs.
"Small Arms of the World: A Basic Manual of Small Arms," 12th
edition (Stackpole Books, 1983).
The first five chapters of this encyclopedia summarize the
development of small arms from 1945 to 1983.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ASSAULT RIFLE FACT SHEET #2
QUANTITIES OF SEMI-AUTOMATIC "ASSAULT RIFLES"
OWNED IN THE UNITED STATES
RIFLES OF AMERICAN MANUFACTURE
Colt AR-15 caliber .223 to date 279,600
Springfield Armory Inc. M14A caliber .308 to date 60,000
Springfield Armory Inc. R3 (Copy of HK91) cal. .308 to date 1,000
Springfield Armory Inc. FAL caliber .308 to date 6,000
Springfield Armory Inc. BM59 caliber .308 to date 500
Ruger Mini-14 caliber .30 to date 500,000+
Commercial and surplus US M1 .caliber .30 to date 700,000+
US Government sales and GI souvenirs US M1 cal. .30 to date 1,500,000+
est.
RIFLES OF FOREIGN MANUFACTURE
(imports)
China AK-type rifles caliber .223 and 7.62mm to date 90,000
China SKS w/detachable magazine 7.62mm to date 25,000
Finland (Valmet) AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 16,000
Hungary AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 7,000
Yugoslavia AK-type rifles caliber 7.62mm to date 4,000
Israel Galil .223 and .308 to date 9,000
Israel M14 (built from surplus parts) .308 to date 16,000
Israel FAL (built from surplus parts--Armscorp) .308 to date 3,000
Argentina FAL (Armscorp) .308 to date 4,000
FN FAL and FNC .308/.223 to date 25,000
West Germany (HK91) caliber.308 to date 38,000
West Germany (HK93) caliber .223 to date 8,510
Beretta BM-59 caliber .308 to date 2,000
Switzerland SIG 510 and SIG 550 caliber .308 and .223 to date 1,000
Austria Steyr AUG caliber .223 to date 5,000
Korea K1 and K2 (similar to AR-15) caliber .223 to date 25,000
Miscellaneous to date 25,000
QUANTITIES OF SEMI-AUTOMATIC SUB-CARBINES
(firing pistol ammunition)
OWNED IN THE UNITED STATES
Sub-Carbines of American Manufacture
Marlin Camp Carbine caliber 9mm and .45 to date 3,000
Volunteer and other makers "Commando" carbine caliber
9mm and .45 to date 40,000
Cobray, MAC and other makers MAC10-type semiautos
caliber 9mm and .45 to date 50,000
Intratec and Intertec TEC9 caliber 9mm to date 110,000
Numrich 1927A1 Thompson Semiautos caliber .45 to date 16,000
Miscellaneous: AP9 etc. to date 40,000
Sub-Carbines of Foreign Manufacture
(imports)
Israel Uzi (carbines and pistols) caliber 9mm and .45 to date 90,000
West Germany HK 94 caliber 9mm (30% sold to law
enforcement) to date 16,200
United Kingdom Sterling MK6 caliber 9mm to date 1,000
Miscellaneous to date 5,000
ESTIMATED TOTAL 371,200
-= END OF FILE =-
One of the biggest problems pro-gunners (& especially Absolutists) face is public relations. Good old fashioned PR. We keep getting our * kicked on it & there are a few reasons why.
One of the most prevalent is that terms we either take for granted or don't know exists wind up being used against us. Take "pistol grip" for instance. A few months back there was much talk over a sporting shotgun that was gifted to Sen. Kerry having been subject to a weapons ban he co-sponsored. One of the main talking points was whether or not his shotgun had a pistol grip or not. It did but most people, including some avid gun toting folks, didn't realize it.
Now the term "pistol grip" had been used amongst gun makers & owners since sometime in the mid 19th century, but the anti-gun crowd in the past few decades did such an effective job of commandeering our language that a lot of people thought the gun control lobby's definition was the correct one. So let's look at a few terms that the anti-gun lobby has used to our detriment, along with the actual definition of each term:
Pistol Grip
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A conspicuously protruding grip underneath the action of the gun, usually with a sharp angle, designed to allow accurate spray fire from the hip without the need to aim.
The actual definition - An area underneath or behind the receiver that is curved or angled to facilitate a better grip with the strong hand.
Assault Weapon
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
Saturday Night Special
The anti's - A cheap handgun (in terms of price) that will flood the poorer neighborhoods & cause an increase in violence involving firearms.
The actual definition - First, we must recognize that the origin of the term is black persontown Saturday Night. "Saturday night special" is merely a variant on that phrase. Next, we must look at who would be most affected by a ban on these firearms - poor people. Simply put, it's a phrase designed to vilify handguns that poor people can afford that came about through altering a racist term. But then again gun control, racism & elitism have usually been linked.
High Powered
The anti's - Any firearm that can cause damage to an object it hits. For example the SKS & AR-15 are high powered assault weapons.
The actual definition - A cartridge that produces a certain amount of energy &/or velocity from a rifle. There is no distinct number for either velocity or energy but generally rifle cartridges that fire a 150 grain projectile close to 3,000 feet per second would be considered high power. Also High Power is the title of a very popular type of rifle competition. But to provide examples a .30-06 Springfield or a .300 Winchester Magnum would be considered high power. The 7.62x39 (the cartridge most often used in the SS & AK-47 variants) & the 5.56x45 (very similar, but not identical to the .223 Remington & used in most AR-15 type rifles) would be considered intermediate cartridges. & the cartridge, not the firearm is what the term refers to.
Point Blank Range
The anti's - A distance very very close.
The actual definition - The distance which you can shoot & hit a certain sized target without adjusting your sights. Let's say you have a rifle chambered in .30-06 that shoots 2" groups at 100 yards & you're shooting at a target that's 10 inches in diameter. Let's also say that you have your sights set so the bullet will hit 4" high at 100 yards. That means you can aim at the top of the target & hit it at a distance of 335 yards or so without adjusting the sights (assuming you're firing a 168 grain boat tail hollow point with a ballistic coefficient of .450 at roughly 2,650 feet per second with sight 1.5" above the center of the bore). That's point blank range. It's not only cartridge dependent, but target dependent as well. Using our above example if our target was only 5 inches in diameter, then our point blank range would drop to 75 yards unless we altered our sights before hand (as the above listed example would hit a height of 4" at 100 yards & with the 2" variable of the rifle that'd mean at the 3 inch mar we'd have to alter our sights to make a hit on the target). If we changed it to hit 2.5" high at 100 yards then our point blank range for a 5 inch diameter target would be around 260 yards.
Most gun owners are not aware of the actual definition & instead have taken the anti's version as gospel. This is even sadder as the anti's definition is all implication. I have never heard an anti or reporter (wait- that was redundant) explain exactly what point blank range is, only that the term is used to imply that the distance was short, say within a few feet. On a man sized target one should assume that the point blank range for any rifle cartridge is at least 200 yards, & with most pistol cartridges at least 75 yards if not 100. Even the lowly .22 Long Rifle has a point blank range of roughly 140 yards (assuming a 12 inch tall torso is being shot at). It's just not nearly as descriptive a term as most people think.
Junk Guns
The anti's - Inexpensive handguns that are not safe due to their low price & are the choice of criminals in low income areas.
The actual definition - As with "Saturday night special" this term is used to drive prohibitions on firearms that are most accessible to those with limited means. The firearms usually labeled as "junk guns" are affordable for most people at prices of $150 or less. The quality of workmanship will not be on par with a firearm costing two to three times what the cheaper guns cost, nor will it stand up to as much use before certain parts wear down. But it will serve its main purpose which is to provide a way for people to defend themselves if they can't afford a more quality firearm. The term itself is an anti-gun lobby invention but its based on a very old premise: disarm the peasants.
Cop Killer Bullet
The anti's - A bullet that will penetrate a bullet proof vest, thus enabling a criminal to kill cops despite their bullet proof armor.
The actual definition - Again this is a term made up by the anti-gun lobby. It relies on a misunderstanding of how bullet proof vests work to achieve the purpose of banning firearms chambered for certain cartridges, or to at minimum ban certain types of ammo.
Bullet proof vests are rated for certain purposes. There is no vest that will stop any & all projectiles fired at it. What the manufacturers of these vests do is give it a rating which means that most of the time a vest with a certain rating will stop certain types of projectiles fired by handguns & in a few cases rifles. Even with a vest rated to stop a .44 magnum you can alter the type of projectile or increase its velocity or weight & defeat a bullet proof vest. when it comes to rifles there are only a few vests that will stop one shot from certain rifle cartridges, & that is accomplished by using ceramic plates in the targeted area 9along with having the vest weigh about 15 pounds). To put it more in perspective, the .30-30 lever action your granddaddy used to hunt deer with will penetrate the majority of bullet proof vests. So will most muzzleloaders that your great great great great great granddaddy used to hunt deer or fight the redcoats. It's simple physics: a vest rated to stop a projectile with a certain amount of kinetic energy will not stop another projectile with more kinetic energy.
So "cop killer bullets" could be (& has been attempted to) construed to cover any & all rifle cartridges as well as a good portion of handgun cartridges used primarily for hunting since its implied definition is simply anything that will penetrate a bullet proof vest.
Sniper Rifle
The anti's - A rifle having the ability to hit a human being at a great range, usually aided by a scope & in such a powerful cartridge that severe injury or death at long distance is possible.
The actual definition - Your hunting rifle, if you take the anti-gun lobby's definition to its logical conclusion.
A sniper rifle as used in the military sense is simply a military rifle (or one altered for military use) that enables a sniper to perform his duties. A certain level of accuracy is required as is a certain level of power in the cartridge, but depending upon the requirements of the specific unit any bolt action hunting rifle chambered in .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield can be made into one with little effort. The main concerns are getting the rifle to shoot acceptable groups (usually around 1 inch at 100 yards, but sometimes smaller depending on the criteria for the unit) & utilize a telescopic sight. About $150 at a gunsmiths shop will turn a Remington 700 in .30-06 into a rifle that could be used by a military or police sniper. Where the duality comes in is that many hunters use rifles that could be handed straight to a military or police sniper without any modification whatsoever.
"Sniper rifle" is merely a term used by the anti-gun lobby to vilify rifles commonly used in hunting & competition, since the criteria for all three endeavors sometimes overlap. It's just a way to desensitize the public to bans on hunting guns. The term's use isn't that different in operation from how they use "assault weapons" to justify bans.
These are not all the terms that the anti-gun lobby has used with devastating effect against us. But it should give you a good idea of how we're getting our * kicked in the PR war we're fighting. To be fair the anti-gun lobby would include most of the mainstream press as well as the gun control groups themselves, since many articles in papers are little more than re-worded press releases from those groups. The mainstream media's understanding of firearms is largely based on information provided by the gun control groups. For whatever reason we have not been that effective in educating journalists as to the technical facts involved in the various issues concerning gun control & gun Rights. This is to our detriment, as a good portion of the public learns about firearms through the mainstream media. I admit at times I was misinformed by a new story over one issue or another. Looking back over those terms I think you'll recognize one or two that you or someone you know was mislead by at some point.
That's how effective their efforts have been: even gun owners have been known to accept their terms at face value.
The only suggestion I have is to thin about the words being used before you start your arguments. It's not always easy, but it'd be preferable to correct an inappropriate definition before moving to the substance of the argument. In some cases by citing the correct definition or pointing out the nonsensical definition being used, you can have the argument right there. After all, if a person is decrying the "point blank range" of a shooting with an "assault weapon" their argument falls apart when you explain what "point blank range" is, point out that most muzzleloaders have a "point blank range" of 100+ yards on a human sized target, & then proceed to show that "assault weapon" has no meaningful definition.
What we need to do is alter the nature of the debate. We need to stop playing defensively & put the anti-gun lobby in that position. It will meet with little success if we continue to allow them to define the terms we use when we argue with them.
If the translation of the term from German to English was precise, most of us would not refer to German "Storm Troopers" as a noteworthy classification of German military. We would look at the original German word for "stormtrooper", which is "sturmmann" and translate this to mean, "assault soldier". Of course, in historical perspective, the term "storm trooper" can be much more easily accepted than the term "assault man".
To be precise, the German term accredited to Hitler is "sturmgewehr", which most literally translated means "storm rifle". Possibly, through the intent of the original German usage, we could come to a translation of "assault rifle", but we would have to begin accepting the term "assault soldier" as though it had a particular meaning as well (I wonder now, what is an "assault soldier". Is there any other kind?).
To complicate things, as I have pointed out, the currently accepted definition of "assault rifle" was not the generally accepted definition in a period of, say, 1955 to 1975. During this period, those firearms, which reasonably resembled military issue rifles, were commonly called "assault rifles" by some within the firearm community. As I pointed out, while Beretta was probably the first to use the term to market their particular version (and definition) of an assault rifle, I would be very, very surprised if they actually came up with the term. Beretta simply grabbed a term that conveyed a general image and used it as a marketing tool to sell their firearm.
And while the term "assault rifle" was being used during this period (say, 1955 to 1975), it was most commonly used to describe military styled rifles in 7.62 NATO caliber. The 5.56 NATO round was basically unheard of during this the first part of this period, and really, very, very few Americans had any interest in the AK47 or SKS rifles, or the 7.62X39 cartridge. Now, what other cartridge could have been generally considered viable (to the US firearm enthusiast) for an "assault rifle" during the period of, say, 1955 to 1965? Considering the history, I can't think of many, nor can I think of many firearms available to the US marketplace during this time chambered for such a caliber.
Of course, the commonly accepted definition of "assault rifle" has changed considerably since those days. You could argue, I suppose, that the current actual definition of "assault rifle" would have to be a select fire/fully automatic firearm. I guess that is fine, if that is what you want to believe. However, in 1994 the US government clearly defined what "assault rifle" was legally, and frankly, isn't the legal definition what matters? Of course, there are still States that accept this definition, and (at least within those States) the term legally means a firearm with particular characteristics. Those characteristics, legally, do not include a provision for caliber, nor do they specify that the firearm is a select fire/fully automatic weapon.
If you care to believe what an on-line dictionary tells you, I suppose that is your prerogative. However, I believe accepting such definitions leave a lot to be desired. Such an acceptance still does not go to the history of how the term evolved what the actual legal definition is (in certain States) and generally misses the point.
That point being, an assault rifle is pretty much what any particular individual defines the term to be. I have heard people, in fact, read posts from people, who use the term to describe a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, or a SKS. This, no doubt, infuriates certain people, but actually, either could probably be effective in an assault situation.
My own feeling is, we should just accept it as a term that will convey a general image of a group of firearms. We should also accept a couple of facts. The term will continue to remain controversial, will mean slightly different things to different people, and, unfortunately, it is here to stay.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Assault_rifle
Address:
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/a/as/assault_rifle.html
Changed:10:05 PM on Wednesday, May 31, 2006
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Assault_rifle
Address:
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/a/as/assault_rifle.html
Changed:10:05 PM on Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Still no historical or military record contemporary to the claim? Big surprise. You're a friggin' joke, Skyking.
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Assault_rifle
Address:
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/a/as/assault_rifle.html
Changed:10:05 PM on Wednesday, May 31, 2006
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
[^][:p][^]
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Assault_rifle
Address:
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/a/as/assault_rifle.html
Changed:10:05 PM on Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Still no historical or military record contemporary to the claim? Big surprise. You're a friggin' joke, Skyking.
And you're rather queer.
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
The Dept. of Defense guide defines the term "assault rifle" (note: I said "rifle" not "weapon" also as a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powdered cartridge.
I dont know what else to tell you DWS.
I dont know why DWS getting his panties in a wad for,I dont support the way the anti gun media portrays the def. of "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" If he read my last post "Assault Weapon
The anti-gun lobby's definition - A firearm that bears a physical resemblance to a military weapon & therefore possesses the same capabilities as the military weapon is most closely resembles. It is usually implied if not outright stated that machine guns are what's being discussed, despite every anti "assault weapons" law dealing only with semi-automatic firearms.
The actual definition - Federally none. (At least as of September 13th, 2004) Some states still have "assault weapon" bans in place. A working definition would simply be a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine that possesses a certain number of cosmetic features, such as a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the firearm or a bayonet lug.
The term "assault weapon" was derived from assault rifle. An assault rifle is a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powered cartridge & possessing dimensions that are less cumbersome than a full sized rifle. Hitler coined the phrase when he named the StG-44. But as will be shown in our next example the anti gun lobby is not ashamed to borrow terms from genocidal maniacs or racists to further their goals.
The Dept. of Defense guide defines the term "assault rifle" (note: I said "rifle" not "weapon" also as a selective fire firearm chambered for an intermediate powdered cartridge.
I dont know what else to tell you DWS.
Did you read my post?
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Bullcrap Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
DWS,
How many dictionaries and/or encylopedias have you written or contributed to? You claim the military doesn't use the term assault weapon? The StG nomenclature is still with us. I really don't give a damn what you think or believe, but you look like a fool with this charade of yours. Unfortunately, the library of Congress doesn't have technical evaluations of captured enemy equipment online or your would have your lips pucked and a tube of Chapstick standing by.
Until you're published I'll go with the rest of the free world on this subject.
Assault_rifle
Address:
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/a/as/assault_rifle.html
Changed:10:05 PM on Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Still no historical or military record contemporary to the claim? Big surprise. You're a friggin' joke, Skyking.
And you're rather queer.
Odd, maybe. Different, yes. "Queer", no.
[^][:p][^]
Again, "assault rifle" is in the eye of the beholder!
quote:Originally posted by jbjm04
I am planning on buying an assult rifle so that I will be better able to defend my family if neededMy question is which type should I buy[?]I HAVE LOOKED AT Ar-15'sMini-14's and ak's I am confussed by all of the "pre ban" hype and over inflated prices Any ideas[?]
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
The terms unicorn, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny are in the dictionary, as well; does that make them real? And as with all notation, words come into being in myriad ways. Question: If the StG44 was the first "assault rifle", how is it that the term "assault rifle" does not appear in any English dictionary until nearly two decades later? If the AK-47 and M16 are "assault rifles", how is it the term did not exist contemporary to their introductions? More, if "assault rifles" are select fire shoulder weapons firing an intermediate cartridge using a detachable magazine, how is it (1) no military in the world refers to such weapons either by name or nomenclature as an "assault rifle", and (2) how can a semi-automatic, civilian look-alike be by definition an "assault rifle" when it does not meet the criteria specified for one? And more, if by definition an "assault rifle" fires an intermediate cartridge but a "battle rifle" fires a full-power cartridge, how is it that an FNC and FAL are both considered an "assault rifle" under the AWB? Simple, because unlike a Buick, the term only exists in language.
quote:Originally posted by boeboe
But shouldn't that definition include the definition that is legally accepted in a few States?
If not, are we looking at controversy with people who think such laws protect them from fully automatic rifles?
For example, someone who is inclined to take an anti-gun position will look at such an on-line definition and somehow believe the assault rifles the laws are protecting them against are full auto firearms, which is not at all the case.
Of course, the media will continue to allow people to believe that those laws that "protect" us from "assault rifles" are protecting them from fully automatic weapons. Which, of course, is rubbish.
So, the real term continues to be meaningless....except in the eye of the beholder....
The terms unicorn, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny are in the dictionary, as well; does that make them real? And as with all notation, words come into being in myriad ways. Question: If the StG44 was the first "assault rifle", how is it that the term "assault rifle" does not appear in any English dictionary until nearly two decades later? If the AK-47 and M16 are "assault rifles", how is it the term did not exist contemporary to their introductions? More, if "assault rifles" are select fire shoulder weapons firing an intermediate cartridge using a detachable magazine, how is it (1) no military in the world refers to such weapons either by name or nomenclature as an "assault rifle", and (2) how can a semi-automatic, civilian look-alike be by definition an "assault rifle" when it does not meet the criteria specified for one? And more, if by definition an "assault rifle" fires an intermediate cartridge but a "battle rifle" fires a full-power cartridge, how is it that an FNC and FAL are both considered an "assault rifle" under the AWB?
Have you really read my posts? You don't see I am on your side now?
They use the word assault alot!
Lone Sentry: WWII Intelligence
Bulletin series (U.S. Military Intelligence Service)
Address:
http://www.lonesentry.com/intelbulletin/index_subject.html
Changed:2:04 PM on Monday, December 26, 2005