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Oil company profits

rossowmnrossowmn Member Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭
edited October 2004 in General Discussion
Are you sitting down? You'll be shocked (right!) to know -- are you ready for this? -- the big oil companies are beginning to report huge profit increases in the third quarter! Pshaw! Who would've guessed.

Irving, Texas-based Exxon said its profit was $5.68 billion, up about 56 percent from the third quarter last year. Royal Dutch/Shell, based in London and The Hague, said that its profit more than doubled, to $5.4 billion. Most other oil companies are reporting substantial third-quarter profit increases.

Who says there's no price gouging?

Comments

  • rossowmnrossowmn Member Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oil company profits for 2007 was one hundred twenty-three BILLION dollars ($123,000,000,000.00). When that is split four ways among the oligopoly it doesn't sound like so much. The average is only thirty Billion seven hundred fifty million dollars ($30,750,000,000.00).

    In defense of the price fixing and gouging the oil companies say they are a "for profit" business and have to show a reasonable profit to stay in business and provide an essential product to the public. Large profits are necessary for exploration for new sources of crude, improving and building new refineries and research and development of new energy sources. They also point out that the oil companies are owned by widows and orphans and others in the general public, so the profits benefit society at large.

    All those reasons are perfectly reasonable, and I could buy into it, until I realize the oil companies are doing none of the above. The last oil refinery was built in the United States in 1976 (thirty-two years ago).

    With profits of $123,000,000,000.00 on the books, it makes me wonder what the real profits are.
  • TheBrassManTheBrassMan Member Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Real price gouging.
    If they would drop the price I bet thier profits would be even greater.


    Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does it state: "Seperation of Church and State".

    "Those who beat their guns into plow shares; will plow for those who don't."

    62038332.jpgawcountdown.gif

    "Isaiah 5:20 ?Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All Shell Markets in my area and surrounding area's closed the doors?I dont know of a shell store any where around South West VA or Eastern TN.If there are any Im not aware of them?And they all done good business.One was right off the Interstate and stayed busy 24 hrs a day.I have no idea why they closed?

    Rugster




    "Toujours Pret"
  • TheBrassManTheBrassMan Member Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have 3 Shell stations here in a 3 1/2 mile stretch.
    All have had to be repaired or rebuilt after Charley [:p]

    I will not buy from Shell though. They get thier crude from the Sudan.


    Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does it state: "Seperation of Church and State".

    "Those who beat their guns into plow shares; will plow for those who don't."

    62038332.jpgawcountdown.gif

    "Isaiah 5:20 ?Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thats what happens when this country lets a very few control the whole mkt same thing happens in agriculture like the beef they were stealing our cattle for several years telling us we over produced ect ect ect while you the comsumer was getting bent over and not knowing it, just like the hog mkt few yrs ago you could buy a fat butcher hog from sale barn for less than $10.00 cwt but did you see the priuce in the store go down for you guys? in the livestock industry it called packer consentration.....Tyson controls around 50% of the meat in this country.....what would you expect to happen i guess..... the grain are the same way,a very few control that mkt also
    the packer and stockyards act from way back them was to deal with this kind of problem but nobodys got the balls the take them on......oh well

    I am burning e85 in my 99 suburban for .28 cents a gal less than reg gas and sofar cant tell much difference if any....piss on them i am going to help out myself and my fellow farmers buy burning corn and soy diesel.

    Rugster all the shell station are out this way couple years ago all the station were connoco but are all shell station now foe what ever reason
  • John N.John N. Member Posts: 421 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The major oil companies are nowhere near the drug companies when you look at the profit margin.A Newsweek article several months ago listed the drug companies return on the dollar at about 25 to 30 percent.The oil companies return was about 7 to 8 percent.Wish I had the issue in front of me now,I could quote more numbers.As I don't,I have to rely on my bad memory.But the drug companies are gouging the heck out of us,alot more than the oil companies.

    I have learned that when the stuff hits the fan it is never evenly distributed.
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sounds ok to me, i've got stock in exxon
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to go along with Mike, at the next share holders meeting the board of directors at Exxon-Mobil will probably get a round of applause that will last for two hours! Everyone in the United States has been crying for the past three years (some trying to blame Bush) about the drop in value of the stock market and the huge they losses suffered in their portfolios. I doubt there were many tears (except those of joy) coming from the eyes of people who invested heavily in either specific oil companies or in energy futures...they can ride out this wave or cash in any time. When did it become a bad idea to run a business and make a profit? If sales in my own firearms business jumped up 56% in the last quater because I could raise my prices and have people continue to pay them I'd be on cloud nine!

    Ignoring foreign petroleum companies like Shell and BP, the remaining "sisters" are publicly held companies which exist for no purpose other than to make money for those people who have invested in them. Oil companies do not exisit to provide a service like a public utility, they exisit in order to make people money, hopefully a lot of it. I can picture the next share holders meeting when the Chairman announces that the board has decided that the company is going to scale back operations and lower it profits (there by reducing the value of its stock) because it was proving to be too profitable, was earning too much money, and it was becoming bad for public relations. HAH! Those old guys (and a few women) would be run out of town on a rail in about 30 seconds by a mob a very PO'd share holders who'll glady pump $5 per gallon gas into their own cars when they see their fat dividend checks roll in.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • easygo6easygo6 Member Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am with Mike...
    If you want to share in the wealth...invest. Some of you are without realizing it. In the form of your 401K plans operated by your employers. Not all employee 401K plans are invested in your employer's stock only,...so most are invested in either treasury notes (Gov't Bond funds), index funds, or specialized stock funds.

    Read the prospectus and you may find you are part owner of those Exxon profits....[:D]



    "They're in front of us, they're behind us, they're to our left and to our right...they can't get away now."

    Chesty Puller, Chosin Reservoir, Korea

    SEMPER FI
  • easygo6easygo6 Member Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oh, and one more thing... how does the gov't create jobs in an economy?? Do they hire people to do nothing, create jobs in beauracracies that do little work? Where do the taxes come from to make the payroll...?

    Commercial enterprises use profits to expand their operations. Invest in R&D to develope new products. It is a fine balance to collect sufficient tax from corporations but not to shrink growth of corporations...so that they can hire and employees can pay payroll taxes. Employees should invest to reap a portion of the success/profit of those employers.[8D]

    OK, now everybody...JUMP ON!![}:)]

    "They're in front of us, they're behind us, they're to our left and to our right...they can't get away now."

    Chesty Puller, Chosin Reservoir, Korea

    SEMPER FI
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well guys if your are talking investing i am on a completely different plane than what you are talking.....i have investments in some stock but all in all are pretty slow growing but are atleast growing
    For me investing is laying it all on the line in large sums of money which for me is buying land livestock and ect and making profit from my own labor and marketing skills in fact at the age of 37 i could sell all my assets and live quite well for quite some time but i will keep working and increase my assets until i deside to retire which hopefully will be quite a few millions of dollars which right now i am aways over a million now.
    why not try to start your own oil company or ect? I can guarantee that if you look like you could start to be serious competition with one of these very large companys beit oil, a packing plant or ect ect they will destroy you in short order. think you can compete with billions of dollars......its a pretty serious situation when two three major players control a majority of any given industry.
    but dont worry we farmers are slowly figuring out ways around these things
    such as farmer owned cooperatives for ethanol plants and ect [:D]
    gotta think big guys [:)]
    Hey Mark them Beamers any good? might have to buy a couple when i retire[:D] until then i like that big green John Deere stuff [:D]
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    I dont care where I buy fuel.. I always buy at the cheapest place I can find.

    polarbear.gif
    Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    @!![:(!][:(!]

    ____________________________________________________
    I'm not apologizing, I am what I am
    There is no compromising, I don't give a damn
    Ozzy Osbourne - Lightning Strikes
    2004052802_Display-25.gif
  • flat8flat8 Member Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't forget, the gov't clips you for 50 to 60 cents a gallon in assorted taxes. WAY more per gallon than the corporations make.
  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    Lonnie, which oil company told you to buy a gas hog? Isn't free enterprise great. If you can't afford gas, quit driving.[:)]

    AlleninAlaska
    Delta Firearms & Supplies
    http://www.galleryofguns.com

    aglore@gci.net
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen, it does better than the Chevy[:D]

    ____________________________________________________
    I'm not apologizing, I am what I am
    There is no compromising, I don't give a damn
    Ozzy Osbourne - Lightning Strikes
    2004052802_Display-25.gif
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DON'T LISTEN TO ALLEN!!!!Keep driving. Take alot of trips....drive real fast...punch it at stop signs...pass every vehicle you can at full speed...never drive anything less than 8 cyliders!!!!

    [I'm a partner in an oilwell here in SoKal, and I love these recent royalties[8D]..]

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All excellent suggestions hangfire but you could also suggest lowering tire pressures to dangerously low levels in order to increase rolling resistence, driving with the A/C on full in even the most pleasent weather, burning only premium fuel even if the idiot engineers who designed your car claimed that it would run fine on regular (what do those egg heads know), or if those idiots say to use premium in your car then just pump in regular and say the hell with it. Never consider replacing your air filter, change your engine oil only when it appears to be reverting back to crude or shows signs of coking and laugh out loud at mere the suggestion of ANY factory scheduled maintainence. Sadly those same egg heads have made it damned tough to force a late model car out of tune with all their stupid computers and electronics but if you shop around you may be able to find a special "low performance" chip that can really stranagle your car and with any luck cause you to fail your next emmission inspection...then you'll have tasted success! Sadly for myself I could only afford an 8 cylinder BMW right now but I hold out hope for a V-12 someday!

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank-you Mark....Excellent advice!!! I really wish you luck with that V-12, and to help the cause, be sure and drive with the emergency brake on.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    all in all these high oil/fuel in the long run will benefit me esp when e85 is .28/gal cheaper chuckle chuckle. it is causing more and more of a push for bio fuel [:D][:D] genetic engineers are working on developing high starch corn which will yield even more alcohol/bushel[:D][:D]
  • plains scoutplains scout Member Posts: 4,563
    edited November -1
    Okay some of us here are old enough to remember 1973 oil embargo. It sucked. Long lines and little gas and huge prices.

    Then late 70's and early 80's they actually encouraged drilling for oil on American soil.

    Then in 1986-7 the bottom dropped out and thousands of oil field people lost their jobs, drilling rigs were sold for scrap metal and it was the end of drilling for oil on American soil.

    Comes the 1990's and the radicial enviros combined with our own government started policies and pushes to discourage drilling for oil on American soil -- we all sat on our pocket books and were lulled to sleep by accepting the rate of imported oil into this country. So content that the soccer mom's with the yuppie generation started buying SUVs and other gas pigs. Driving a 4x4 that never left the city streets of AZ or other such places makes perfect sense[:o)]

    Now the BLM and the Forest Service are running with or scared from the enviros and have basically adopted plans that are so burdensome that drilling for oil on the millions of acres of public land was economically out of the question. It is economical now, but the regulations and policies that we were so compliant to let happen during "import it all" era are preventing meaningful development of oil reserves on federal lands which:
    1. Prevents drilling for oil on American soil
    2. Makes us more reliant on foreign oil
    3. prevents tidy non tax income to the government

    This country has never had a long range energy plan. They have waffled back and forth. The government has reacted rather than being proacative to place a long range energy policy that will benefit and make sense even in the next 5 years!! Plus the politicians have let the enviros call the shots and frankly I do not think the radical ones live in the same world as the rest of us.

    The independent wildcatters are nearly cut out of the picture now as they dried up and were bought out at bankruptcy auctions in the late 80's. Oil field equipment and personel are in short supply. Prices are going to surge. Companies are going to make huge profits as they know it will not be long before something happens and the profit of drilling and producing oil and gas will go in the toilet and they need to be sure they can withstand the next economic drought that will be imposed upon them.

    Drill for oil on American soil. It can be done enviromentally friendly and our country benefits. It is also a direct blow against oil rich mideast terrorists.




    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
    ~Abraham Lincoln
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All good points scout. While I have no problem drilling for oil on shore, off shore, or even in the National Parks if we need to, we don't need to. There is no shortage of oil, I am not waiting in line for three hours to purchase gasoline like we were doing in '74 and again in '79, only being allowed to purchase 10 gallons of gas, purchasing only on odd or even days based on my license plate number, or not being allowed to fill up if my tank was above half (we went through all of these here in SoCal).

    There is plenty of crude being pumped out of the ground in the USA right now but all of it is being sold at market price: $50+ per barrel, just like every other barrel of crude sold on the world market. We already have a bunch of people up set that American oil companies are earning record profits so while it may sound nice to take those petro-dollars away from OPEC it still won't make anyone happy because the price will remain the same and the gripping about high prices will continue. Notice how the topic of this post was that the "big oil companies" profits were up and not Saudi Arabia is raking in huge money from record high crude oil prices? I'd just as soon suck the rest of the worlds oil dry (even if we have to pay premium prices to do it) and retain our own domestic supplies of oil for real shortages and stratigic needs. The time will come someday when the worlds big oil tank gauge reads EMPTY and I say let everyone else run out first!

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark, Hanfire and Cowdoc, since 1999 how may trucking companies have gone out of business due to high fuel prices? How many have filed bankruptcy and are barely hanging on? How many people from my area had to quit jobs because they cannot afford to drive to work (there are no good jobs here and most travel atleast 50 miles one way to work as I do), I have no heat in my house yet and do not know how I will heat this house this winter, I burn an average of 800 gallons of fuel each winter and fuel this year is at record highs of close to $2.00 a gallon. I am on the verge of bankruptcy and divorce because of the high fuel prices and it looks as though I will be forced to go back to driving truck for somebody else, I had to quit driving truck for many reasons but the biggest being I needed to save my marriage, it is a lose lose situation.

    While folks like Mark and Hangfire gloat over their stocks millions of people just like me are having to decide between groceries, gas to get to work and heating fuel for our houses, thanks alot people, I hope you do well with your stocks.

    One more thing, about that truck I bought, anything less than a 4X4 is useless for me, I had to have it and the gas price has gone up $0.30 cents I bought that and is still going up[:(!]

    ____________________________________________________
    I'm not apologizing, I am what I am
    There is no compromising, I don't give a damn
    Ozzy Osbourne - Lightning Strikes
    2004052802_Display-25.gif
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    7mm, i dont have any idea how many trucking co's have went out of business...quite a few i would guess....i am about ready to jerk the comp plates of our semi....road diesel at 2.24 hauling grain just doesnt work....i am in a business that uses a lot of fuel ag tractors combines that burn 10+ gals of diesel/hr i am mostly chemical farming now but still burn a lot of fuel also in the winter feeding cattle three tractors running most of the day feeding cattle 7 days a week using number 1 fuel is going to be quite costly for us here.
    since my wife is home on bed rest i have to drive 60 miles a day just to get my kids to and from school 5 days a week and that doesnt account for the other driving i have to do to conduct my business. my net worth is in the land,cattle and machinery. i make it with my own blood sweat and tears not off the backs of somebody else....which is why i get so pissed when this country allows a given industry to become so concetrated.
    I am big on bio fuel because it opens of a mrkt for me to tap into but some here think farmers should just be peons i guess....i can assure you that when farmers make money they spend it which would be a big boom for this economy and put people back to work.
    I supect that a lot of people will be pretty cold and hungry this winter with not enough money to pay for heat diesel fuel that i use in my tractor which is the same stuff if you use heating oil to heat with is 1.80-1.89/ gal and propane if you use that to heat with is 1.28 last i got for grain drying and hell we are not even into winter yet.also would guess quite a few homes will burn down this winter with people trying to heat with wood stoves and other thing not up to par trying to keep from freezing!

    Damn glad i have elc heat

    PS I suspect these high of energy costs will be the down fall of the US ecomony. we use way to much energy/day and at these prices it wont be long........
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't own any oil stocks. I invested MY MONEY in drilling for oil.... Not that it really matters. This was in about 1985, and it took about 4 dryholes before we hit a producer. It took over 10 years to recover our costs.I was an orange grower and the exploration was on my acreage. We were still recovering from the oil shortages of the 70's when the cost of everything almost tripled, while the price of citrus did not change. One of our major obstacles was being able to afford the charges by the trucking companies to ship our perishable product. This was felt nationwide for all products.Their outrageous charges far exceeded the increase in fuel costs.For several years we had to raise our crop on borrowed money.Countless small growers went under.Countless farm workers lost their jobs.My family had to live on borrowed money.This is how the economy works.Its a double-edged sword Lonnie. No one is reveling in your hard times...I know exactly how you feel.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    I think investing in a Ethanol refinery would be a wise investment for any American right now.
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hangfire

    you and me are kinda the same then, i borrow 6 figures each year for operating money for farming and ranching....thats what i am talking about laying it all on the line each year....thats cool you found oil on your own land yourself, wish i was sitting on a pool of oil now[:D] could be though. looking at the old abstracts for my land many mnay years ago a company had bought the oil rights so somebody long time ago thought there was oil under here. i think there is oil under me buts its to deep to go after
    I know few years ago they was doing "whats that called when they drop heavy wieght on ground with a truck and listen to sound waves that come back looking for oil cant think of the name right now!
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I feel the price of gas is about where it belongs in market. Not that
    I like it much. All other things have increased proportinatly. Look at
    movie ticket prices from 30 years ago, meat, milk, bread, cars, guns,
    insurance, and the likes. Also look at wages from 30 years ago, and now
    adding hospial benifits to workers with little worker costs for it, guess why gas ALSO went up. Also check out the newer enviornmental strangle hold on refineries.
  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey cowdoc- Laying it on the line is putting it mildly[8D]

    In the citrus world here in Kali we have what we call the "June Drop". Given the extremes in temperature during that month, if we get a couple hundred plus days after months of nothing above 70, all the blossoms drop and there is no crop that year....period. No income at all, but the groves still have to be maintained.

    Our wells are what they call stripper wells, meaning they are shallow[1800 ft] and low producers. The local geology suggests there is big production at 3600 ft, but man thats 6 digits just to take a chance.Don't have that kind of bucks for that kind of gamble.If I can get a driller to share the risk for a roality,I'd go for it.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
  • plains scoutplains scout Member Posts: 4,563
    edited November -1
    I use to fall for the "let's suck them dry over seas first" and it makes some sense. But, I feel that dependency without plan "B" makes us hostage.

    I truly hope that we don't dip into the strategic oil reserve with the idea we have to save soccer mom's from having to pay too much to fill their SUV.

    Back in my kid hauling family days, we had mini-vans that got over 25 mpg regularly and on the open road pushing 30mpg. These honkin' SUV's get a respectable 10-14mpg. But the yuppies would not be caught dead in a Minivan!! Oh no!! How embarrassing!
    [B)]


    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
    ~Abraham Lincoln
  • s.guns.gun Member Posts: 3,245
    edited November -1
    Not only the Oil Companies are making huge profits.I remember my Daughter sending home items from Korea that she paid $5.00 for that were selling for $30.00 here.[:(]

    1-Powder
    2-Patch
    3-Ball
    4-Remove the Rod
    5-Do Not Forget the Cap.
  • s.guns.gun Member Posts: 3,245
    edited November -1
    Not only the Oil Companies are making huge profits.I remember my Daughter sending home items from Korea that she paid $5.00 for that were selling for $30.00 here.[:(]

    1-Powder
    2-Patch
    3-Ball
    4-Remove the Rod
    5-Do Not Forget the Cap.
  • Hunter375Hunter375 Member Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to agree that I really feel no sympathy for those people driving Excursions and the like on a daily basis, especially because I seldom see more than 1 person in the vehicle. They made the choice to drive a monster, now they have to live with that choice. Don't get me wrong, I am not an environmentalist in ANY way, I just get tired of hearing people whine about $100 a week in gas to drive their Tahoe to work and home. I have a 34 mile round trip daily, and I only spend about $31 a week. This is because I made a sensible choice and opted to park my truck and get an Intrepid (which, BTW, is PLENTY of car for the average fanily of 4 or even 5). I only use my truck for hunting and hauling (it gets a whopping 5.4 mpg; that 440 is no kitten). I think it is hilarious to watch these yuppies driving their crew cab dually 4x4's with tonnau covers or shells. Why buy a dually if you're not hauling a fifth wheel? But, like I said, if they are willing to sacrifice economy, more power to them.

    Liberal compassion inhibits progress.........think Republican and prosper!
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