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Unlawful to share reloads?
Henry0Reilly
Member Posts: 10,878 ✭✭✭
What's up with this? Is it unlawful to share reloaded ammo?
quote:Originally posted by Smoky14
Had an ATF agent at our local range trying to get people to do some reloading for him. Such an AH, the guy who said he would was clued in before he got into trouble.
You'd think they would have better things to do with their time.
quote:Originally posted by Smoky14
Had an ATF agent at our local range trying to get people to do some reloading for him. Such an AH, the guy who said he would was clued in before he got into trouble.
You'd think they would have better things to do with their time.
I used to recruit for the NRA until they sold us down the river (again!) in Heller v. DC. See my auctions (if any) under username henryreilly
Comments
crims40
i do not see what is so hard to understand about it, just like alcohol you can make so much for personal use, it is in the book, i am getting ready to leave for new years, i will find it when i get back
I did a 5,000 round batch for the boyz at FLETC last summer, seems they couldn't afford to buy new, and needed enough for their burpgun class. I only charged them for the bullets, since they wanted XTPs in 9mm+p configuration.
I loaded them to the step just below maximum in my Vihtavouri manual and they really zinged!
I suppose they could call it "manufacturing", but to what end?
Exactly...I bought 1,000 rds from a guy at the last gun show because it was cheaper then what I could reload them for....[:)][:)]
crims40
Posted it before. I never do it anymore.[8D]
the author of the original post was ignorant. This is not illegal. it is merely "at your own risk". You can legally buy custom handloads at gunshows.
no it is not legal, unless they have a manufacturers license!
it is also illegal to posses more than 10,000 primers of one type, there is also a legal limit of the amount of powder you can posses {20 pounds}
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nlc/ffl/faqs_manu.htm
Is one who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [Top]
Yes, if he engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purposes of livelihood or profit. No, if he reloads only for his own use.
search around before you criticize, you can buy crack but it doesn't make it legal
So, if you reload some ammo for someone and charge them for the components it is legal. Not wise IMO, but legal.
doesn't sound to me like any one is in the busines of selling or distributing for the purposed of liveiohood or profit
crims40
In other words, you can handload for a friend so long as you don't make any money off it.
Like everything else involving the gov't, this is a TAX issue.
If you "manufacture" ammo you must pay the 11% Pittman-Roberts tax. If you reload for someone else, the gov't doesn't get the tax.
The only way to get around this is to reload the actual empty brass that the customer provides.
It's about money, guys. It's always about taxes and money.
As 1911A1 said, you can make booze but not sell it. I make a lot of beer and wine. I think the limit is 200 gallons of beer a year a person can make. You can give your beer away, but selling is illegal. Distillation is completely illegal.
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
i have said this before, last time was when nunn wanted some reloads, yes you must have a manufacturers license to reload ammunition for anyone besides personal use
i do not see what is so hard to understand about it, just like alcohol you can make so much for personal use, it is in the book, i am getting ready to leave for new years, i will find it when i get back
Combat Vet VN
D.A.V Life Member
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
the author of the original post was ignorant. This is not illegal. it is merely "at your own risk". You can legally buy custom handloads at gunshows.
no it is not legal, unless they have a manufacturers license!
it is also illegal to posses more than 10,000 primers of one type, there is also a legal limit of the amount of powder you can posses {20 pounds}
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nlc/ffl/faqs_manu.htm
Is one who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [Top]
Yes, if he engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purposes of livelihood or profit. No, if he reloads only for his own use.
search around before you criticize, you can buy crack but it doesn't make it legal
What reference do you have for this?
I was just looking at the batfe web site and I could not find anything about a limit on smokeless powder or primers
(other than black powder, 50 lb)
Don
carefully.
You can load for someone FREE of charge IF you use their components and do NOT CO-MINGLE components you have laying around.
More than one guy has been suckered into an illegal position by an agent looking for a cheap bust.
It is a chicken s#%* bust but they do make them. Just because you may get by with loading for a Fed don't think it's legal unless you follow very stringent rules.
Smoky the CAREFUL[8D]
There is a FET (federal excise tax) on new guns and ammo. 10% on long guns, 11% on handguns and ammunition. Also on reloaded ammo-11%-if you sell the ammunition all together. I have seen people selling loaded ammo as "for components only" to avoid paying the tax. I think they are asking for trouble but I don't agree with the law.
I think you can reload other peoples brass without incurring the tax but any income would be subject to regular income tax if done for the principal purpose of profit.
The law is called (I think) "The Federal Aid to Wildlife Restoration Act' and is commonly called the Pittman/Robertson Act after the legislators that wrote and sponsored the law. The tax is collected by the feds as a FET and then redistributed to the states. I think, (but I do not know for sure) that numbers of hunting licenses and amount of land able to be used by the public figures into how much each state gets.
Here in Michigan, the money goes to purchase private lands that are turned into "state game areas" for hunting. The money is allowed to be used for purchase, upkeep and enforcement of laws regarding these public lands used for hunting. The state pays the county "payment in leiu of taxes", plus sign posting, litter cleanup, protection from abuse by orv's, vehicles, and horses etc. Also barriers and cutting of grass in parking lots etc. All this from your tax dollars from buying guns and ammo. Hunter and shooters foot this bill and the states are supposed to favor the hunter when conflicts arise between users. This differs from other types of state land like state forests, state parks, state access sites, and state recreation areas. Each of these different types of state lands gets their funding from different places or parts of places, like general fund money, hunting license money, boat registration money, snowmobile license and trail sticker money, orv license money and on and on.
We as hunters and sportspeople pay even more than the already overtaxed people of our state and nation, but I, for one, think the Pittman/Robertson is a positive thing. I think the law could be amended to allow the small, hobby reloader that doesn't sell over 10,000 rounds a year or something like that to exist without hurting the resources too badly. This is the same problem the small custom "gunmakers' and gunsmiths have run into. They take a custom 1911a1 gun frame and make you a race gun or pin gun or take a ruger redhawk and turn it into a 50 caliber and then get hit after the fact because they "manufactured" a gun without paying the tax.
I hope this info helps clear things up...
Hope this helps Smoky [:)]
Reloading of used shells or cartridges is considered manufacturing for purposes of excise tax. Sale of such shells by the reloader is subject to the excise tax. However, if the reloader merely reloads shells belonging to a customer and is paid for labor and materials, the reloading service is not a taxable sale, as long as the reloader returns the identical shells provided by the customer to that same customer. In such cases the customer is the manufacturer and would not be liable for the tax if the shell are manufactured for personal use. If the customer sells reloaded shells or uses them in a business, e.g., shooting range, the customer would be liable for the tax.
What's up with this? Is it unlawful to share reloaded ammo?
quote:Originally posted by Smoky14
Had an ATF agent at our local range trying to get people to do some reloading for him. Such an AH, the guy who said he would was clued in before he got into trouble.
You'd think they would have better things to do with their time.
They get you for manufacturing without a license and failure to pay taxes. What is illegal is selling your reloads.
Here is the quote from the ATF reg. Please note line six on returning "the identical shells" This is where the ATF bites you in the butt.
Hope this helps Smoky [:)]
Reloading of used shells or cartridges is considered manufacturing for purposes of excise tax. Sale of such shells by the reloader is subject to the excise tax. However, if the reloader merely reloads shells belonging to a customer and is paid for labor and materials, the reloading service is not a taxable sale, as long as the reloader returns the identical shells provided by the customer to that same customer. In such cases the customer is the manufacturer and would not be liable for the tax if the shell are manufactured for personal use. If the customer sells reloaded shells or uses them in a business, e.g., shooting range, the customer would be liable for the tax.
I believe this is true. There is one other point not mentioned...as long as the reloader is not SELLING the reloads.
I reload for a couple of people, not much, just enough for them to shoot a couple hundred rounds a year. But, I do NOT accept payment for the reloads. THEY supply all material.