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Apple investigates moving iPhone mfg to U.S.

droptopdroptop Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭
edited November 2016 in General Discussion
Would this have even been discussed if Cliton was elected ? Right now it is just being investigated but a tariff might get folks off dead center.

Apple is reportedly asking its manufacturing partners to investigate moving iPhone production to the United States, according to the Japanese newspaper Nikkei. According to the report, sources claim that Apple has approached Foxconn and Pegatron, the two manufacturing companies that are largely responsible for assembling iPhones. Foxconn is apparently exploring the possibility, while Pegatron has elected to decline due to cost concerns.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/18/13679154/apple-manufacturing-foxconn-overseas-united-states-iphone

Comments

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So Apple is asking two Chinese companies who manufacture the Apple iPhone to see if they will set up manufacturing plants in the US. A definite step forward, I guess. I can't help but wonder why Apple would not undertake the manufacturing themselves and eliminate the mark up on Foxconn's price as well as the manufacturing profit heading overseas.

    Clarification:

    This is not a criticism of Trump. I agree with the OP that Trump's election could very well have swayed Apple on this point. It is only a question as to why Apple would not manufacture directly rather than keeping the Chinese involved.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well when China says the iPhone will be the first casualty if their is a monetary war, that should wake Apple up and realize their needs to be manufacturing diversity. Apple put all their eggs in one basket here.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    maybe a phone mfg in AMERICA will not secretly send data to china
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    unless it is a chinee company IN America
  • droptopdroptop Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    So Apple is asking two Chinese companies who manufacture the Apple iPhone to see if they will set up manufacturing plants in the US. A definite step forward, I guess. I can't help but wonder why Apple would not undertake the manufacturing themselves and eliminate the mark up on Foxconn's price as well as the manufacturing profit heading overseas.

    Clarification:

    This is not a criticism of Trump. I agree with the OP that Trump's election could very well have swayed Apple on this point. It is only a question as to why Apple would not manufacture directly rather than keeping the Chinese involved.



    Apple is not a manufacturing company. Apple designs and markets electronics items.

    Assume Apple would manufacture cell phones SOLD in the U.S. The new facility would use Chinese technology and knowledge about Apple products. Hire U.S. upper level managers, assembly labor and support. Buy power, pay to fix "stuff", etc. things really start to trickle down,, like the Local Pizza place, hair cuts, bars, taxi the list is endless.

    China will still be involved manufacturing items sold outside the U.S. The thing that makes Apple think about doing this is that 35% Tariff.

    The arrangement works out where I live and the country has progressed rapidly over the last 15 years. In April purchased a Whirlpool washer that says, Hecho en Colombia Made in Colombia. The Whirlpool washer purchased 15 years ago was Made in Mexico.

    Whirlpool also setup a local support and service group for their wholesalers and their clients. More employees = more money spent. vrs "spread the wealth" in the U.S.

    Guess what's next, Samsung, Nokia, LG,,, anyone competing against Apple would be INSTANTLY at a 35% disadvantage.
  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    Droptop, don't forget the Maquiladoras that assemble American products, then pay no tariff when sent back. Cheap, uneducated labor; cheap shipping makes the scenario of a Chinese company in the US, shipping "American" products to Mexico for assembly, then shipping them back to the US.
    I think I'm getting dizzy with all this cross-border globalization!
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 21,980 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Move them in to Detroit or some other rust belt city to make an Apple Village. With tax incentive, private security (boy will they need it) and this will bring home some of them from over seas. Labor. Local? Or Chinese with the "guest visa" [:D].

    I suppose they'll need a new tag Made in USA by Chinese.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    25 years ago i visited with a fellow who lived in El Paso and told me the America factory south of the border sent buses out ot the shantytowns and picked up the mex women and their kids...provided a meal for them, day care for kids, and the women worked a day shift for $5 a day..and damn happy to have the job
  • droptopdroptop Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
    Move them in to Detroit or some other rust belt city to make an Apple Village. With tax incentive, private security (boy will they need it) and this will bring home some of them from over seas. Labor. Local? Or Chinese with the "guest visa" [:D].

    I suppose they'll need a new tag Made in USA by Chinese.


    Thought the same thing 10 years ago in Colombia. A free trade zone for MEDICAL. Don't need government money. They have some of the best eye doctors / plastic surgeons anywhere.

    Found an article about the Haceb / Whirlpool manufacturing facility in Medellin. Opened in 2015 and is a lot bigger than I'd thought.

    The plant, initially employing 250, will produce more than 400,000 washing machines per year, according to HWI.

    Aside from the new plant here in Antioquia (Medellin), the only other plants in Latin America producing washing machines are in Mexico and Brazil, according to HWI.

    The machines will be marketed under both the "Haceb" and "Whirlpool" brand names throughout Latin America.

    http://www.medellinherald.com/antioquia/mmn/item/138-haceb-whirlpool-launches-washing-machine-production-in-antioquia

    Photo below of my new and old Whirlpool. New is a VERY different operation. Longer cycle times, pauses to "soak" etc. or manual for each cycle. 8 months and no problems. Purchased old unit in 2002 and has needed two repairs. One my fault the other old age. Use the old unit for "old not important "stuff", like chicken nest bedding.

    whirlpool_old_new.jpg

    whirlpool_new_tag.jpg

    Most countries can't afford to give their jobs and money away and get nothing in return,[:(]

    Colombia has MANY assembly plants from companies all over the world. For instance Chinese motorcycles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKT_motos a private consortium did all the negotiations with China.

    More info on AKT motorcycles.
    http://www.chinamotorworld.com/index.php?c=news&a=view&id=595

    This type of negotiation does not require government help, zero. My belief if the government is a "go between" who has their hand out for favors, bribes, only gums up the works.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by droptop
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    So Apple is asking two Chinese companies who manufacture the Apple iPhone to see if they will set up manufacturing plants in the US. A definite step forward, I guess. I can't help but wonder why Apple would not undertake the manufacturing themselves and eliminate the mark up on Foxconn's price as well as the manufacturing profit heading overseas.

    Clarification:

    This is not a criticism of Trump. I agree with the OP that Trump's election could very well have swayed Apple on this point. It is only a question as to why Apple would not manufacture directly rather than keeping the Chinese involved.



    Apple is not a manufacturing company. Apple designs and markets electronics items.

    Assume Apple would manufacture cell phones SOLD in the U.S. The new facility would use Chinese technology and knowledge about Apple products. Hire U.S. upper level managers, assembly labor and support. Buy power, pay to fix "stuff", etc. things really start to trickle down,, like the Local Pizza place, hair cuts, bars, taxi the list is endless.

    China will still be involved manufacturing items sold outside the U.S. The thing that makes Apple think about doing this is that 35% Tariff.

    The arrangement works out where I live and the country has progressed rapidly over the last 15 years. In April purchased a Whirlpool washer that says, Hecho en Colombia Made in Colombia. The Whirlpool washer purchased 15 years ago was Made in Mexico.

    Whirlpool also setup a local support and service group for their wholesalers and their clients. More employees = more money spent. vrs "spread the wealth" in the U.S.

    Guess what's next, Samsung, Nokia, LG,,, anyone competing against Apple would be INSTANTLY at a 35% disadvantage.



    You make an excellent point regarding the general economy, but more importantly, IMO, is the creation of a local supply stream for components. One only need look at the supply stream of components that go into US produced Toyotas (as an example).

    Final assembly of the phones/laptops will by necessity start with Chinese components. As time progresses, it is almost a given that local sources for components will be developed, and, eventually, this could spawn a return to US manufacture of additional consumer goods such as televisions.

    The threat of a tariff may have something to do with this, of course. Equally likely is the increasing cost of production in China relative to the cost of production in the US. While there remains a tremendous advantage to the Chinese in labor costs, labor is becoming less and less of a cost input into these devices, eroding much of that advantage.

    We have a customer for example that supplies material to the manufactures of HVAC equipment. Most of their capital intensive production is in the US, where they have to produce their labor intensive product in Mexico because there is a 10:1 advantage in the cost of labor. They ship the semi-processed material (capital intensive) to their Mexican plants for final (labor intensive) processing who then ship the finished pieces back to the US for integration into the final assemblies. Without the ability to take advantage of this labor source, they would be non-competitive and would lose out to European manufactures who also have plants in Mexico for the same reason.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by droptop
    quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
    Move them in to Detroit or some other rust belt city to make an Apple Village. With tax incentive, private security (boy will they need it) and this will bring home some of them from over seas. Labor. Local? Or Chinese with the "guest visa" [:D].

    I suppose they'll need a new tag Made in USA by Chinese.


    Thought the same thing 10 years ago in Colombia. A free trade zone for MEDICAL. Don't need government money. They have some of the best eye doctors / plastic surgeons anywhere.

    Found an article about the Haceb / Whirlpool manufacturing facility in Medellin. Opened in 2015 and is a lot bigger than I'd thought.

    The plant, initially employing 250, will produce more than 400,000 washing machines per year, according to HWI.

    Aside from the new plant here in Antioquia (Medellin), the only other plants in Latin America producing washing machines are in Mexico and Brazil, according to HWI.

    The machines will be marketed under both the "Haceb" and "Whirlpool" brand names throughout Latin America.

    http://www.medellinherald.com/antioquia/mmn/item/138-haceb-whirlpool-launches-washing-machine-production-in-antioquia

    Photo below of my new and old Whirlpool. New is a VERY different operation. Longer cycle times, pauses to "soak" etc. or manual for each cycle. 8 months and no problems. Purchased old unit in 2002 and has needed two repairs. One my fault the other old age. Use the old unit for "old not important "stuff", like chicken nest bedding.

    Most countries can't afford to give their jobs and money away and get nothing in return,[:(]

    Colombia has MANY assembly plants from companies all over the world. For instance Chinese motorcycles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKT_motos a private consortium did all the negotiations with China.





    We have the Maytag Maxima X series. Assembled in the USA. They do not state what percentage of the components are USA manufactured. We always look at the label before purchase, and will always pay the Made in USA premium.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by droptop
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    So Apple is asking two Chinese companies who manufacture the Apple iPhone to see if they will set up manufacturing plants in the US. A definite step forward, I guess. I can't help but wonder why Apple would not undertake the manufacturing themselves and eliminate the mark up on Foxconn's price as well as the manufacturing profit heading overseas.

    Clarification:

    This is not a criticism of Trump. I agree with the OP that Trump's election could very well have swayed Apple on this point. It is only a question as to why Apple would not manufacture directly rather than keeping the Chinese involved.



    Apple is not a manufacturing company. Apple designs and markets electronics items.

    Assume Apple would manufacture cell phones SOLD in the U.S. The new facility would use Chinese technology and knowledge about Apple products. Hire U.S. upper level managers, assembly labor and support. Buy power, pay to fix "stuff", etc. things really start to trickle down,, like the Local Pizza place, hair cuts, bars, taxi the list is endless.

    China will still be involved manufacturing items sold outside the U.S. The thing that makes Apple think about doing this is that 35% Tariff.

    The arrangement works out where I live and the country has progressed rapidly over the last 15 years. In April purchased a Whirlpool washer that says, Hecho en Colombia Made in Colombia. The Whirlpool washer purchased 15 years ago was Made in Mexico.

    Whirlpool also setup a local support and service group for their wholesalers and their clients. More employees = more money spent. vrs "spread the wealth" in the U.S.

    Guess what's next, Samsung, Nokia, LG,,, anyone competing against Apple would be INSTANTLY at a 35% disadvantage.



    You make an excellent point regarding the general economy, but more importantly, IMO, is the creation of a local supply stream for components. One only need look at the supply stream of components that go into US produced Toyotas (as an example).

    Final assembly of the phones/laptops will by necessity start with Chinese components. As time progresses, it is almost a given that local sources for components will be developed, and, eventually, this could spawn a return to US manufacture of additional consumer goods such as televisions.

    The threat of a tariff may have something to do with this, of course. Equally likely is the increasing cost of production in China relative to the cost of production in the US. While there remains a tremendous advantage to the Chinese in labor costs, labor is becoming less and less of a cost input into these devices, eroding much of that advantage.

    We have a customer for example that supplies material to the manufactures of HVAC equipment. Most of their capital intensive production is in the US, where they have to produce their labor intensive product in Mexico because there is a 10:1 advantage in the cost of labor. They ship the semi-processed material (capital intensive) to their Mexican plants for final (labor intensive) processing who then ship the finished pieces back to the US for integration into the final assemblies. Without the ability to take advantage of this labor source, they would be non-competitive and would lose out to European manufactures who also have plants in Mexico for the same reason.



    In addition to talk of tariffs, Trump has spoken often about China's blatant manipulation of its currency. As much as people talk of China's involvement in the bond markets, and the hold it places on us, there is the reality of China's own economic issues.

    Google 'Ghost Cities in China' and see what a true real estate bubble looks like. The Chinese economy is a fragile thing, and has been for some time. They have propped it up successfully because we haven't had leadership that wanted to deal with them aggressively.
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 21,980 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Washers from Colombia. Only if Pablo Escobar was still around [:D]. Not only does it launder money and the US will be a wash in coke like in the '80's. The '60's pot is legal, folks dropping off from heroine O.D. like in the '70's. It's a mess.

    As for China keeping their cash de-valued and decide to "correct" it US would be so screwed.
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