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Why I think Obama is the RIGHT president? for now
thesupermonkey
Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
Before the flame fest begins I beg for your indulgence. First know that I'm a staunch conservative and capitalist. <That said, FLAME ON!>
I firmly believe the world is approaching the threshold of very serious and dramatic change on multiple levels. In this "information age" the most abundant form of information is misinformation. With so many facts, figures and statistics used to prove, disprove and yet reprove the same theories there is no way to trust anything that can't be proven first hand.
Take global warming for example. Is it happening at all? If it is, are we causing it? You'll find no shortage of "so-called" experts ready and willing to defend either side. I, not being an expert and having no self procured data of my own, am left to decipher which is the more credible scenario. Even in the absence of a solution there IS still data. So I've decided not to debate something I have no control over. Either it is or isn't happening, that is a FACT. It is a fact over which no one has control. What we DO have control over is what we do about it. We can do something, do nothing, or debate the issue until we, by default, do nothing.
Scenario A) Global Warming IS NOT happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, we put ourselves into even more debt perhaps causing one of the worst depressions ever known.
Scenario
Global Warning IS NOT happening, we do nothing, business as usual.
Scenario C) Global Warming IS happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, outcome is better than if we did nothing.
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
So the choice is A&C(act) or B&D(don't act) and with a 50% chance of making the wrong choice, which one has the lesser impact?
No republican would pursue the kind of aggressive spending necessary to provide us with energy alternatives. I doubt Obama can achieve it but at least it's the type of liberal action that I believe is necessary, even if it conflicts with my beliefs in every way. The world is changing in ways we're not prepared for. Just because an idea (conservatism) is great doesn't mean it's timed well.
To my next point : Energy.
We are very near if not at the peak of our ability to increase oil production, meanwhile consumption rate is compounding. If you've never studied anything about compounding percentages, it makes some fascinating and frightening reading. A meager constant 6% growth rate equates to a 12 year double time. So essentially every 12 years, more will be consumed than the total amount that has EVER been consumed. We won't realize we've peaked until we reach the hard, sharp decline and by that time it's too late. Prices will skyrocket and for a nation that literally runs on oil, most produced by our enemies, the nation would be brought to a stand still. The reliance on a finite resource with a compounding growth rate is a recipe for disaster and it's only a matter of when not if it comes to fruition. The typical Republican answer is to simply drill for more oil and while that's a novel thought, no one bothered to foresee that by the time the facilities for production were online, we would require more than ever before in history. This is another reason why I think Obama is necessary.
And to my final point : America(as our founding fathers saw it)
Obama is on track to revoking every civil liberty, right and freedom American citizens have. I see now it's necessary. Many Americans have forgotten how and why this country was started. When you have something for so long, some begin to take it for granted. Obama will serve as the next wakeup call. There WILL be a tipping point. A point at which people will begin to feel the loss of the freedoms they've surrendered. They'll realize, again, what true freedom is and most importantly, what it isn't. And that's when they will stand up, speak out and revolt if necessary. They'll realize how socialism destroys a nation, putting their foot down to reclaim the freedoms they've exchanged for security. Just as on 9/11, terrible events can unite a nation. It's a lesson we've fought to maintain but with so many still blind, I think it's time for a harsh reminder.
Munkey
I firmly believe the world is approaching the threshold of very serious and dramatic change on multiple levels. In this "information age" the most abundant form of information is misinformation. With so many facts, figures and statistics used to prove, disprove and yet reprove the same theories there is no way to trust anything that can't be proven first hand.
Take global warming for example. Is it happening at all? If it is, are we causing it? You'll find no shortage of "so-called" experts ready and willing to defend either side. I, not being an expert and having no self procured data of my own, am left to decipher which is the more credible scenario. Even in the absence of a solution there IS still data. So I've decided not to debate something I have no control over. Either it is or isn't happening, that is a FACT. It is a fact over which no one has control. What we DO have control over is what we do about it. We can do something, do nothing, or debate the issue until we, by default, do nothing.
Scenario A) Global Warming IS NOT happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, we put ourselves into even more debt perhaps causing one of the worst depressions ever known.
Scenario
Global Warning IS NOT happening, we do nothing, business as usual.Scenario C) Global Warming IS happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, outcome is better than if we did nothing.
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
So the choice is A&C(act) or B&D(don't act) and with a 50% chance of making the wrong choice, which one has the lesser impact?
No republican would pursue the kind of aggressive spending necessary to provide us with energy alternatives. I doubt Obama can achieve it but at least it's the type of liberal action that I believe is necessary, even if it conflicts with my beliefs in every way. The world is changing in ways we're not prepared for. Just because an idea (conservatism) is great doesn't mean it's timed well.
To my next point : Energy.
We are very near if not at the peak of our ability to increase oil production, meanwhile consumption rate is compounding. If you've never studied anything about compounding percentages, it makes some fascinating and frightening reading. A meager constant 6% growth rate equates to a 12 year double time. So essentially every 12 years, more will be consumed than the total amount that has EVER been consumed. We won't realize we've peaked until we reach the hard, sharp decline and by that time it's too late. Prices will skyrocket and for a nation that literally runs on oil, most produced by our enemies, the nation would be brought to a stand still. The reliance on a finite resource with a compounding growth rate is a recipe for disaster and it's only a matter of when not if it comes to fruition. The typical Republican answer is to simply drill for more oil and while that's a novel thought, no one bothered to foresee that by the time the facilities for production were online, we would require more than ever before in history. This is another reason why I think Obama is necessary.
And to my final point : America(as our founding fathers saw it)
Obama is on track to revoking every civil liberty, right and freedom American citizens have. I see now it's necessary. Many Americans have forgotten how and why this country was started. When you have something for so long, some begin to take it for granted. Obama will serve as the next wakeup call. There WILL be a tipping point. A point at which people will begin to feel the loss of the freedoms they've surrendered. They'll realize, again, what true freedom is and most importantly, what it isn't. And that's when they will stand up, speak out and revolt if necessary. They'll realize how socialism destroys a nation, putting their foot down to reclaim the freedoms they've exchanged for security. Just as on 9/11, terrible events can unite a nation. It's a lesson we've fought to maintain but with so many still blind, I think it's time for a harsh reminder.
Munkey
Comments
Doug
There are four questions that cannot be answered:
1. Is Global temperature increasing?
2. If so, is that a bad thing?
3. If so is it caused by human activity?
4. If so, can the USA alone do anything about it?
Anyone who pretends to know the answer to any of these questions can be shown to be a *.
I don't think I'm ready to accept the theory that we should bankrupt America on unsupportable theories promulgated by * such as Al Gore.
To add a little insult, I like your handle. Sounds about right.
1. Expand Drilling to increase oil production in the short term
2. Search for other sources to remove dependency on oil for the long term.
Now, that said, who knows what "short term" definition they are using. Since we were just educated recently on what the the Department of energy's mission was so long ago when it was formed under Carter. Way back then they were supposed to be finding us alternative energy sources. Guess we are still in that "short term" timeline.
Rep or Democrap, they are all crooks. They are serving themselves over 'We The People". Do not be so naive to believe that any of those topics have anything to do with what is best for the world. it is what is best for the politician and how he can be re-elected to continue holding that power and gain more.
Spending us into oblivion will not solve any problems, although it may bring about a catastrophic event much sooner than if conservatives were in office.
Clean energy... There is no such thing. While a particular type of energy may have limited direct impact on the environment usually secondary support for those systems calls for materials or infrastructure that is NOT always clean. Battery powered cars sound nice until you consider what it takes to make and dispose of those batteries. Often clean energy is "robbing Peter to pay Paul". I also have a feeling that in 30 years they may come to discover the long term effects on the local environments of wind and solar farms. What happens when the ground is blocked from the sun by solar panels and wind turbines alter the natural flow of the winds.
Conservation???? One of the trends the last 25 years has been to reduce the harvest of trees by recycling and switching to recyclable plastic. Keep in mind that trees are a renewable resource. Oil,the base for plastics is not yet we continue to push the use of plactics over paper/wood. Both have a limited ability to be recycled but once that ability is gone one thrives in the landfills for hundreds of year while the other decomposes. Tell me again how plastics are better for the environment.
Bottom line is it's all conjecture but to some extent it balances out. The Earth adapts as it is required and so does the life on it. Wanna bet that if the earth temp rises 5 degrees life will still go on. Maybe not as we are used to it but it will continue.
just goes to show you a idiot supporting O is born ever year. He is nothing more than a mouth piece for George Soros.[xx(]
I did not vote for nor do I support Obama but I do believe he represents the drastic wake up call Americans are in need of.
quote:Originally posted by fshfndr
just goes to show you a idiot supporting O is born ever year. He is nothing more than a mouth piece for George Soros.[xx(]
I did not vote for nor do I support Obama but I do believe he represents the drastic wake up call Americans are in need of.
He is just the latest one to do his masters bidding .
You can insert whatever you want for "master".
The last 4 Presidents have drove this country into the ground incrementally.
The "wake up call" may be that we each know which side of the fence we stand on .
He is just firming up the battle lines .
No backing up from that ![xx(]
there are other ways to accomplish the global climate concerns, to develop a working energy policy and to maintain and improve our society without flushing the constitution.
I can only conclude that OBAMA is dead set on making america into a social democracy like Sweden or Denmark
Obama had to happen, I believe he is going to change the world. if that is a good or bad thing depends on your perspective. If you are a person who belives in personal responsibility, constitutional rights, supporting yourself, keeping what you earn and deciding what it is spent on then Obama is the wrong guy for this time or any other.
If you are free, white and have an income above minimum wage, Obama is not the president who represents your interests.
The man is a cheating, lying coward who hates what this country stands for. He makes a mockery of all the presidents who went before him,, that made the tough choices keeping our country free, democratic and wealthy.
So if you think OBAMA is the right man for any aspect other than bringing bible prophesy to pass, you have consumed the Koolaid
Speak for yourself if you need a wakeup call.
If you need a wake up call you can do that through the telephone. Or why don't you just buy an alarm clock. Probably anyone who believes Al Gore's nonsense couldn't operate a complicated machine like an alarm clock.
Obama had to happen, I believe he is going to change the world. if that is a good or bad thing depends on your perspective. If you are a person who belives in personal responsibility, constitutional rights, supporting yourself, keeping what you earn and deciding what it is spent on then Obama is the wrong guy for this time or any other.
If you are free, white and have an income above minimum wage, Obama is not the president who represents your interests.
The man is a cheating, lying coward who hates what this country stands for. He makes a mockery of all the presidents who went before him,, that made the tough choices keeping our country free, democratic and wealthy.
So if you think OBAMA is the right man for any aspect other than bringing bible prophesy to pass, you have consumed the Koolaid
Then color me koolaid lips. I think it's about time we had a tyrant in office. There are far too many all too ready and willing to surrender their freedoms. I believe in America even if most American's have forgotten what they believe in. Obama will be instrumental in the next big conservative movement.
Adam! First off, that was the longest damn post that I ever read. Secondly, you assume that all Americans are buying the media's BS. You are wrong on that point. Than you assume that everyone will stand by, and allow their freedoms to be taken. WRONG! You have to work in some type of government job. They can't say anything, or they loose their jobs. There are some people, like myself,who will openly say whatever they may think, and have not concern for the reprocussions. In short, I really don't care whose feelings I hurt, and I have paid a heavy price for that lifestyle. But I would rather pay the price, and never complain about it, than to be "politically correct"! When I was in high school, my father warned me that the path that I was on would one day cost me very dearly. I understood his point, but chose to stay on the rough road. There are people like me who will not do what they are supposed to do. I do whatever I want to do. It has already cost me, and I expect that one day it will force me to pay the entire bill. So be it. But never think that this Obama is going to tell me anything!
Hahaha, sorry I had a lot on my mind. You just proved my point EXACTLY. You just like every other person here, will never relinquish your freedoms, regardless of what Obama says. However, we are the minority. Hell, my own wife is more than happy to let Obama socialize everything. Her reasoning is "it's not fair" if someone can't afford the premium health care, education, etc. She and those who think as she does, believe it's the governments job to provide for the people. Therefore, I'm thankful she's going to have the chance to experience what she's really asking for. As the government begins chopping away at earnings, killing private business and depriving it's citizens of their god given rights, even the most extreme liberals will have to acknowledge how bad, big government really is. We get it, but the majority need to see it to understand.
tehsupermonkey:
Speak for yourself if you need a wakeup call.
If you need a wake up call you can do that through the telephone. Or why don't you just buy an alarm clock. Probably anyone who believes Al Gore's nonsense couldn't operate a complicated machine like an alarm clock.
I never stated whether or not I believe in human caused global warming. What I believe is irrelevant, if I can't produce the information proving or refuting global warming then I, as a rational thinker, have to concede the opposite could be true. The point was to consider the worst case scenario of both to reach a logical course of action. If you were going to play russian roulette and had the option to pull the trigger at your face or your foot I think you'd choose the later. The absence of a decision is, in itself, a decision (doing nothing).
As far as Al Gore goes, I did watch his pseudo-documentary 'An inconvenient truth' and noticed right away his math was more than a bit off. You're right though, the alarm clock still confuses me
It is rediculus for the US to give up a major portion of our income in an effort to prevent carbon emissions when the emerging countries already pollute 100 times more than we do. This is yet another Big city problem that politicians are craming down our throat. I think about the pictures of the haze in LA going back to the 50's and all the pollution in denver, atlanta, chicago and New York even anchorage alaska, are old news. but that isn't the whole world and nothing we do about it will make one bit of difference.
We should just use up the rest of the oil then switch over to whatever energy source science has developed by then. In the mean time we should produce our own oil so we get out from under the middle east and stop them from dictating our foriegn policy. Its simply stupid for us to let them hold us hostage because we need their oil when we have our own. It is stupid for us to fight wars in that region to protect their oil supplies. That is one of the things I don't like about our country, we kill our own kids protecting those freaks...justify it saying their people are oppressed, well let their people rise up and take back their government before our leaders policies force us to revolt here.
I hate spoil your day, but you're not a rational thinker. You're logic is tortured at best.
That was the purpose of the topic. I'm smart enough to know I don't know enough and rational enough to weigh any argument.
We are not going to stop global warming no matter what is making polar ice melt. Even if we cut our energy consumption the population growth and the advancement of energy consumption in the developing world will overwhelm any reductions we make but that would not even matter of the climate change is not caused by humans.
Climate change is coming, how bad will it be, hard to say. The growth of the developing world will cause an increase in the cost of energy as they add their demand to the current high world demand.
Break throughs will not come in time to avoid some sort of energy crunch. We will be burning anything that will burn before it plays out the environment be damned. Hopefully it is not CO2 emissions that are causing climate change because we are only going to see increased CO2 emission for the next few decades.
I am planning on reducing my energy consumption to prepare for future high energy costs. The only reason energy cost will not go through the roof would be if the world never recovers from the current recession.
Scenario A) Global Warming IS NOT happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, we put ourselves into even more debt perhaps causing one of the worst depressions ever known.
Scenario
Scenario C) Global Warming IS happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, outcome is better than if we did nothing.
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
So the choice is A&C(act) or B&D(don't act) and with a 50% chance of making the wrong choice, which one has the lesser impact?
Your assumption in A) that to act will result in debt and depression is baseless. There are ways to reduce carbon output without incurring debt. Ride a bike instead of driving a 1/4 mile. Build houses without fireplaces or woodstoves. Provide very cheap solar products to Third World countries where wood is the primary fuel.
You also assume that D would not be worse than A. IMHO, folks would like for Florida to remain above water, even in the face of a depression.
Finally,
Think beyond individuals. Obama has to work with Congress, and Congress better get over its own ego trip to start thinking of the future. They've already mortgaged our grandkids to the hilt so they can enjoy their current lifestyle! THAT is what needs to end.
Congress will only work to get re-elected and they will buy the votes they need with your taxes. Of course they will also take money from special interests. I doubt that there are many Congresspersons who given the choice of doing the right thing and getting re-elected who would choose to do the right thing. I don't mean that they don't try to do good things but getting re-elected is more important. Unless the electorate develops a majority with good sense that cares more for the future than their current comfort and security we will keep electing a Congress that will mortgate the future for a vote in the next election. The majority of people will get the government they deserve, the rest just have to try and fix the problem.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
Does anyone else realize how important this, is we are going to have to deal with FOOT SHORTAGES[:0]
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
Does anyone else realize how important this, is we are going to have to deal with FOOT SHORTAGES[:0]
They are going to cut off our feet????
quote:Originally posted by thesupermonkey
Scenario A) Global Warming IS NOT happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, we put ourselves into even more debt perhaps causing one of the worst depressions ever known.
Scenario
Scenario C) Global Warming IS happening, we take measures to reduce our impact, outcome is better than if we did nothing.
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
So the choice is A&C(act) or B&D(don't act) and with a 50% chance of making the wrong choice, which one has the lesser impact?
Your assumption in A) that to act will result in debt and depression is baseless. There are ways to reduce carbon output without incurring debt. Ride a bike instead of driving a 1/4 mile. Build houses without fireplaces or woodstoves. Provide very cheap solar products to Third World countries where wood is the primary fuel.
You also assume that D would not be worse than A. IMHO, folks would like for Florida to remain above water, even in the face of a depression.
Finally,
Think beyond individuals. Obama has to work with Congress, and Congress better get over its own ego trip to start thinking of the future. They've already mortgaged our grandkids to the hilt so they can enjoy their current lifestyle! THAT is what needs to end.
Scenario A was a guess at a worst case outcome to compare with scenario D. In all likelihood both A & D would not be THAT extensive but since we're talking about a problem with serious repercussions, I felt the exaggeration was fitting. The assumption was that D IS more serious than A and therefore, whether we choose to accept the global warming theory or not, it would make sense to take immediate action.
I agree that becoming energy independent is absolutely key. Renewable, sustainable, home grown energy is the answer, whatever that is [:)].
Scenario D) Global Warming IS happening, we do nothing, we experience drastic climate changes, ocean levels rise displacing millions, foot shortages and famine abound due to flooding and overcrowding, yada yada yada.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
Does anyone else realize how important this, is we are going to have to deal with FOOT SHORTAGES[:0]
LOL, I forgot to mention Obama is attempting to amend the constitution to remove our right to bear legs.
I edited this thing twice thinking it should be bare instead of bear. I'm surprised we haven't heard that argument yet. You can have all the bear arms you want but no firearms! Bear or bare they're both funny [:p]
lets ban all internal combustion engine and coal. that is the only thing that would help IF IT WERE REAL
oh yeah like china and india care about their WORSE pollution.
1 degree over 100 yrs. bring it on
If obama is the answer, it was a stupid question