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? about m-16 lowers

JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
are they NFA? or can you just pick one up anywhere?

Comments

  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    so the lower and the sear are both nfa items?

    Is a m16 bolt carrier nfa as well?

    is there a preban m-16 lower that is available? or is that what we call the SP1?
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    so the lower and the sear are both nfa items?

    Is a m16 bolt carrier nfa as well?

    is there a preban m-16 lower that is available? or is that what we call the SP1?

    yes lower and sear are both nfa

    no, bolt alone is not nfa

    the sp1 does not have the extra hole, but does have the appropriate shelf, I think there are a couple current manufactured lowers that also have the low shelf.

    A lower that does not have the shelf and is not drilled for the sear is not NFA btw, but any m16 lower would have the extra hole
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ok, works for me.

    thx.
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    Early Colt lowers were 'non shelf' on the back, same as full autos. No hole for the 'auto trip', however.

    My early SP1 is of as I speak. I call them 'non shelf', because the dimensions were for strength in that area, and had nothing to do with auto functionality. The higher shelf is meant to prevent the insertion of the auto trip device.

    Semantics? Yep! But, I'm full of it! (Semantics, that is[:D])

    Best, Joe
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    I guess I should say the lower and sear can be NFA, there are some drop in sears that work in a standard lower that is not drilled and so they could be used in any ar15 that is not a registered NFA firearm
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i am not looking for any trouble, just wondering what it would cost to build a semi auto version of a m16. I like the looks of the early m16, no shell deflectors, forked f hiders, the dull back plastic triangle hand guards, no forward assist, triangle headed charging handle etc etc.

    I was just kicking things around in my head what it might cost. But aapparently a colt lower would be is around $500 plus the NFA. that is a steep starting point.

    here's the website that i am using for information

    http://www.retroblackrifle.com/
  • TexasVetTexasVet Member Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just get you a slide fire stock.

    Not exactly full auto, but it does spray some lead --
    and it's currently legal.
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    i am not looking for any trouble, just wondering what it would cost to build a semi auto version of a m16. I like the looks of the early m16, no shell deflectors, forked f hiders, the dull back plastic triangle hand guards.

    I was just kicking things around in my head what it might cost. But aapparently a colt lower would be is around $500 plus the NFA. that is a steep starting point.

    [?]
    Shell deflector and forward assist are on the upper, not the lower. I think there are uppers out there available with those 2 things 'deleted', if nothing else just buy an sp1 upper

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269969179

    change the foregrip and flash hider, done
  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An M16 USGI sear is not NFA.

    CP
  • SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
    edited November -1
    quote:i am not looking for any trouble, just wondering what it would cost to build a semi auto version of a m16. I like the looks of the early m16, no shell deflectors, forked f hiders, the dull back plastic triangle hand guards.


    if you get a lower, i have everything else you need. vietnam era m16, complete upper.
    also have an m16 LPK minus the disconnector, but you can't legally own it if you have an ar15 or similar lower. but you can make a semi auto m16 look a like with the other parts.


    tom
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd
    An M16 USGI sear is not NFA.

    CP

    right, a GI sear is not NFA, drop in sears can be NFA, and a GI sear by itself is perfectly legal, but a GI sear and an AR15 equals a machine gun according to our local BATF agent

    this crap is too dang confusing
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    disconnector meaning the sear? If there is no sear, what does it matter if I have an ar15? You cant use the sear or the lower parts in a ar15, can you?


    Like I said, I am not trying to step on toes here. Dad has a m16, i can shoot it til I am green. Full auto is great, but I just like that cold hard look of the early m16.

    I really wanna build one minues the auto sear, and I did consider the slide fire as a legal option to simulate the function of the weapon.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The presence of the hole for the Auto Sear makes any receiver a de facto machine gun and no other parts need to be installed:
    [img][/img]M16A1_2.jpg
    You can see the internals in this photo:
    [img][/img]M16-3Autosear.jpg
    [img][/img]M16A1-1.jpg
    [img][/img]M16A1.jpg
    The USGI Auto Sear (unlike the so called Drop In Auto Sear which is an after market item designed to convert a semi to selective fire) is not by itself a machine gun, nor or any of the other M16 fire control component parts. Keep in mind that the use of M16 parts, with teh exception of the bolt carrier, in a semi automatic receiver is generally prohibited.
    Certain variations of the Colt Ar-15 will ahve the rear of their receivers modified in order to prevent the use (or misuse) of any type of auto sear:
    [img][/img]Coltinternal.jpg
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    so this is a bad idea?

    If the BATF&E define full auto as 3 or more rounds fired on a single trigger pull, why doesn't anyone make a 2 round burst gun?
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    so this is a bad idea?

    If the BATF&E define full auto as 3 or more rounds fired on a single trigger pull, why doesn't anyone make a 2 round burst gun?




    Your definition is wrong. Two or more rounds per pull of the trigger is auto
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    so this is a bad idea?

    If the BATF&E define full auto as 3 or more rounds fired on a single trigger pull, why doesn't anyone make a 2 round burst gun?




    I am not sure where you heard that but it is wrong.


    TITLE 26 > Subtitle E > CHAPTER 53 > Subchapter B > PART I > ? 5845


    ? 5845. Definitions




    For the purpose of this chapter-

    (b) Machinegun
    The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

    Also, this is not a BATFE regulation, this is an actual law established by the Congress.
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK.


    Back to what I was saying, I am not looking to build something to get in trouble with. I doubt either of my 2011 model DPMS rifles can be converted without hacking the lowers into tiny pieces.

    So I am no threat for trying to convert them, or anything for that matter. I just want to build a AR I like which happens to be the early model m-16. I just figured if I got the nfa lower, and dont use a sear, the gun should be legal.

    I may be wrong. Lots of innocent people in prison for honest mistakes. I don't wanna be one of them.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can buy any lower that you please because not one of those companies is going to sell you one that is drilled for the GI Auto Sear. The only differnce between a semi automatic receiver and a selective fire receiver is the presence of that little pin hole in the receiver. It is possible to create selective fire through the use of specialty parts designed for that purpose but by definition those parts are machine guns all by themselves: Lightning Link or Drop in Auto Sear.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,490 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want to build an early style AR15 check out Nodak-Spud they specialize in everything needed to replicate an early AR15 including slab side lower receivers.
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sounds like this isn't going to happen.

    After reading the regualtion, fluckit.

    ah well, it would had been fun.

    Still think someone should release a select few of the retro slab guns
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,490 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    sounds like this isn't going to happen.

    After reading the regualtion, fluckit.

    ah well, it would had been fun.

    Still think someone should release a select few of the retro slab guns




    Why don't you read the post immediately above your last one.
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thx armilite, didn't see it.

    Very nice website!
  • redneckandyredneckandy Member Posts: 9,716 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Little confused. Why don't you just buy an early Colt SP1?
    Isn't this what you want?

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269647806
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269969179


    Oh that is tempting...got a lower that would fit on [:D]


    I like those old M-16A1s too, we got them at work and they are light, simple and still shoot great after 45 years.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,490 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by redneckandy
    Little confused. Why don't you just buy an early Colt SP1?
    Isn't this what you want?

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269647806



    That's closer to what he wants but is still a 70's production and it doesn't have the prong flash hider and I'd say it's priced $300-$500 to high.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,490 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269969179


    Oh that is tempting...got a lower that would fit on [:D]


    I like those old M-16A1s too, we got them at work and they are light, simple and still shoot great after 45 years.



    Again close but no cigar, he's have to swap out the hand guards and flash hider. Priced about right where it would pay to purchase and swap out correct parts.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can't go by this listing; seller says it is an "SP1 rifle length" upper, which is like saying a Mazda Miata is a "Corvette-type" car. It just doesn't make any sense.

    I'm with Andy; if the OP wants a VN-era rifle, he can buy ANY SP1 & be done with it. If he wants it to look like an early VN-era rifle, he can get a used prong FH for $20 & install it. No point in re-inventing the wheel.

    Neal
  • SWAT 50SWAT 50 Member Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Weather it is a NFA weapon is also up to the state.

    In Iowa to paraphrase....Any part or parts that will make a class 3 weapon is Illegal.

    So a M16 bolt is a No No, a threaded Barrel is Questionable, if you are doing something wrong with your AR the list of charges will escalate.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i don't get why all this appears to be so difficult
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