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10mm vs ,45ACP
buschmaster
Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
in the other topic I decided that momentum was a better determinant of ammo performance than kinetic energy. I suppose I 'discovered' Power Factor, which was already used by IPSC and IDPA to determine how powerful a shooter's pistol/ammo combination is.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=658553
using this "new" method, I compared 9mm, .40, .45, included .357 for reference, and selected the best ammo according to Power Factor. (data from ballisticsbytheinch.com)
well I forgot to consider 10mm.
the pathologist from the earlier topic said "Of all the [semiauto] rounds I've seen that are 1-shot kills, it's the .45 that is the clear winner followed by the .40. It's also the caliber I carry."
right, but since a 10mm can go up to 200 grains, wouldn't that edge out .40 and compete with .45?
because then you could have .45 performance with .40 capacity.
here is the data again with 10mm added on.
9mm, CorBon 115 or 125 gr JHP+P (practically the same)
[115 for lightweight carry]
3", 146
4", 153
5", 160
6", 164
.40S&W, CorBon 165 gr JHP (192 MT)
[135 for lightweight carry not bad at 4" 182 MT, same as 180 gr's]
3", 179
4", 192
5", 202
6", 206
.45ACP, CorBon 230 gr. JHP+P
3", 205
4", 226
5", 233
6", 240
.357MAG (reference) 125 gr (either CorBon or Federal, same performance)
3", 157
4", 188
5", 199
6", 214
10mm, Buffalo Bore 180 gr JHC
3", 225
4", 241 (716 ft-lb)
5", 252
6", 257
really, at 716 ft-lb out of a 4" bbl, that's too damn much. maybe the second best is more useful.
10mm, Hornady 200 gr. XTP
3", 207
4", 215 (515 ft-lb)
5", 227
6", 235
****************************
I had decided that a power factor of 140 is needed for "adequate" performance, with a goal of around 200 to get .45 or .357 performance.
10mm clearly is in the same category as .45ACP in terms of power factor. therefore it must penetrate and crush/break bone just as well. really the concerns with 10mm have always been overpenetration and it has been mostly relegated to hunting.
we all know the story of 10mm. full house 10mm had too much recoil and penetration, it was downloaded to "10mm Lite", and that was discarded in favor of .40 when it came out (thanks to Gaston Glock and a pile of 10mm brass with nowhere to go).
but, the pathologist's observations put .40 behind .45, and once again 10mm Lite looks like a good idea. a consideration of power factor shows that it compares directly to .45ACP and because of higher magazine capacity it must be a better choice for a house gun or full-fledged "sidearm", being too big and beefy for concealed carry.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=658553
using this "new" method, I compared 9mm, .40, .45, included .357 for reference, and selected the best ammo according to Power Factor. (data from ballisticsbytheinch.com)
well I forgot to consider 10mm.
the pathologist from the earlier topic said "Of all the [semiauto] rounds I've seen that are 1-shot kills, it's the .45 that is the clear winner followed by the .40. It's also the caliber I carry."
right, but since a 10mm can go up to 200 grains, wouldn't that edge out .40 and compete with .45?
because then you could have .45 performance with .40 capacity.
here is the data again with 10mm added on.
9mm, CorBon 115 or 125 gr JHP+P (practically the same)
[115 for lightweight carry]
3", 146
4", 153
5", 160
6", 164
.40S&W, CorBon 165 gr JHP (192 MT)
[135 for lightweight carry not bad at 4" 182 MT, same as 180 gr's]
3", 179
4", 192
5", 202
6", 206
.45ACP, CorBon 230 gr. JHP+P
3", 205
4", 226
5", 233
6", 240
.357MAG (reference) 125 gr (either CorBon or Federal, same performance)
3", 157
4", 188
5", 199
6", 214
10mm, Buffalo Bore 180 gr JHC
3", 225
4", 241 (716 ft-lb)
5", 252
6", 257
really, at 716 ft-lb out of a 4" bbl, that's too damn much. maybe the second best is more useful.
10mm, Hornady 200 gr. XTP
3", 207
4", 215 (515 ft-lb)
5", 227
6", 235
****************************
I had decided that a power factor of 140 is needed for "adequate" performance, with a goal of around 200 to get .45 or .357 performance.
10mm clearly is in the same category as .45ACP in terms of power factor. therefore it must penetrate and crush/break bone just as well. really the concerns with 10mm have always been overpenetration and it has been mostly relegated to hunting.
we all know the story of 10mm. full house 10mm had too much recoil and penetration, it was downloaded to "10mm Lite", and that was discarded in favor of .40 when it came out (thanks to Gaston Glock and a pile of 10mm brass with nowhere to go).
but, the pathologist's observations put .40 behind .45, and once again 10mm Lite looks like a good idea. a consideration of power factor shows that it compares directly to .45ACP and because of higher magazine capacity it must be a better choice for a house gun or full-fledged "sidearm", being too big and beefy for concealed carry.
Comments
It all comes down to Bullet placement and penetration! Everything else is is Elvis dancing on a pins head.
well then you might be happy using .22LR RNL [;)]
Its better than nothing[:D]
45 ACP
38 Super(Rimless)
10 MM
If I want Power and capacity I would go with the 38 Super, it can almost mimic a 357 in power and when you use the modern rimless brass and a barrel that headspaces on the rim of the neck you have a very accurate and reliable weapon that packs a punch.
The only 10mm I have shot was in a G29 and it had some serious recoil and muzzle blast(I like to shoot full power 44 mag so I am not some recoil sensitive pansy[;)]) so I think follow up shots would be slow. That is another reason I am not a 40 S$W fan.
but... they don't make Glocks in .38 Super. ??? oh no [?]
You can get a Lone Wolf conversion barrel in 38 Super for a Glock 20. They shoot fine and it holds 18+1 rounds of 38 Super.
Would the 9x23 or 38 Super cartridge even stay in the G20 mag to begin with? The 38 Super is 4mm longer than 9mm, so that mag wouldn't work.
?
I like the 38 super but I don't have a G20 or I would give it a try. The only 10mm I have is a Delta elite and I don't shoot it anymore. I scratch my high powered autoloader itch with a 460 Rowland[:)]
Use a 3" compact 1911 (6+1 rounds) or a 4" full size (7+1 rounds) 1911 as a carry piece, and an FNP 45 at home.
15+1 .45 ACP is good enough for me for a house pistol.
One gets comfortable with something and absent earth-shaking evidence negating its effectiveness, one will probably just continue along the same path.
Brad Steele
In theory I like a 44 mag but reality is that a 9mm on me, is better than a 44 in the safe.
but... they don't make Glocks in .38 Super. ??? oh no [?]
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?*=913325
I would rather carry a .45 recoil on a 10mm is ridiculous, not everyone could do a doubletap with it accuratly, besides more punishing on your ears and gun
god forbid you have to shoot that thing inside a home or car without hearing protection .45 will be bad enough
i'll stick with my 9mm because im going to a Mozambique anyway