In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Why Not To Go Skydieing. Pathetic!

gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
edited May 2006 in General Discussion
quote:West Chester woman who died skydiving is identifiedAuthorities have identified the victim of an Ohio skydiving accident as Ellen Ann McWilliams, 44, of West Chester.

The first-time skydiver slipped from her harness during a tandem jump Saturday at the AerOhio Skydiving Center, about 40 miles south of Cleveland, according to the Wayne County Sheriff's Office.

During tandem jumps, a novice skydiver is strapped to the chest of an experienced jumper. When the parachute opens, the experienced skydiver guides the team to the ground. The preliminary investigation indicated McWilliams slipped from her harness after the parachute opened.

The Sheriff's Office did not release any details. The owners of AerOhio did not respond to a message seeking comment.



Someone is going to do time over this one.

It is impossible to "slip" out of your harness especially with a tandem system unless the puke tandem master never properly hooked her up.

Simply pathetic.[:(]

Comments

  • CHGOTHNDERCHGOTHNDER Member Posts: 8,936 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seen that episode on King of the Hill.

    PJ[:0]
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Suicide shouldn't be ruled out.
  • Da-TankDa-Tank Member Posts: 3,718 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just wondering how much that cost the husband? Also maybe I can talk my wife into trying it.[8D][8D]
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Imagine how much it is going to cost AerOhio!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    Imagine how much it is going to cost AerOhio!


    I guarantee you that the customer had to sign a waiver. Skydiving is not without risk. I doubt they are able to sue the company. I would also almost guarantee you that NO charges will be filed against the instructor. Come on people...if you are going to jump out of an airplane, you've got to understand that it's not the safest sport in the world. It is a blast though...I don't think you'll ever find a more quiet peaceful place than hanging from your canopy.
  • mr_floppymr_floppy Member Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There's another one in todays paper.

    Dosen't trouble come in three's ?




    Skydiver dies after collision

    Items compiled from Tribune news services
    Published May 30, 2006

    BARDSTOWN, KENTUCKY -- Two skydivers collided about 200 feet above the ground and their parachutes deflated, causing the divers to plummet, authorities said. One later died.

    John Kevin Benningfield, 33, was pronounced dead at Flaget Memorial Hospital, Nelson County Coroner Joseph Greenwell said Sunday.

    The other skydiver, Chris Snellen, was flown by helicopter to University Hospital in Louisville, where he was in fair condition Monday.

    Snellen, an instructor at the Greene County Sport Parachute Center, broke his leg when he landed in a tree, according to the center's owners.

    The collision happened at sunset Saturday, the center's last jump of the day, said co-owner Kenn Heismann.

    "Both of them had hundreds and hundreds of jumps," Heismann said,
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Generally, you can't release someone else from negligence before it happens. If that was the case, every professional on earth would have you sign a release. Most of the time, there are risks that are inherent in the sport, i.e., getting hit with a ball, versus things that happen becuase someone was careless, i.e., didn't properly attach the person to the harness.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guarantee you that the customer had to sign a waiver.

    Sure, but those things are not worth the paper they are written on. It is simply to disuade you, but they do not hold up in courts.
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I guarantee you that the customer had to sign a waiver. Skydiving is not without risk. I doubt they are able to sue the company. I would also almost guarantee you that NO charges will be filed against the instructor. Come on people...if you are going to jump out of an airplane, you've got to understand that it's not the safest sport in the world. It is a blast though...I don't think you'll ever find a more quiet peaceful place than hanging from your canopy.

    A well written and executed waiver and release of liability can and will hold up in a court of law. I ran a drop zone for 25 years and know from experience, but in a case of gross negligence such as not hooking up a student's static line before exit or not hooking up a tandem student before exit, all the fancy waivers or high priced attornies will not be able to avoid a civil judgement or perhaps in this case a criminal conviction.

    quote:I would also almost guarantee you that NO charges will be filed against the instructor.

    Skydiving instructors, jumpmasters, and parachute riggers have been convicted and have done time in the past for fatalities of students and experienced skydivers that have resulted directly from their negligence.

    As safe and as easy as the sport is today there is no excuse.
  • hicap47hicap47 Member Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've never understood the attraction of jumping from mechanically sound aircraft........
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    Maybe she was too dang skinny for the harness.If so you'd think they would have told her she couldn't jump.My bet is "AerOhio"will be sued.Do skydiving outfits have some kind of insurance to cover such incidences?[?]
    Jeff
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,491 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gunpaq
    quote:West Chester woman who died skydiving is identifiedAuthorities have identified the victim of an Ohio skydiving accident as Ellen Ann McWilliams, 44, of West Chester.

    The first-time skydiver slipped from her harness during a tandem jump Saturday at the AerOhio Skydiving Center, about 40 miles south of Cleveland, according to the Wayne County Sheriff's Office.

    During tandem jumps, a novice skydiver is strapped to the chest of an experienced jumper. When the parachute opens, the experienced skydiver guides the team to the ground. The preliminary investigation indicated McWilliams slipped from her harness after the parachute opened.

    The Sheriff's Office did not release any details. The owners of AerOhio did not respond to a message seeking comment.



    Someone is going to do time over this one.

    It is impossible to "slip" out of your harness especially with a tandem system unless the puke tandem master never properly hooked her up.

    Simply pathetic.[:(]



    The first time skydiver???? How about the last time skydiver..
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Do skydiving outfits have some kind of insurance to cover such incidences?

    NO!
  • agman1999agman1999 Member Posts: 981 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know how you could just "slip out" of a harness without someone leaving straps undone. I never got to do my tandem jump (apparently nobody builds enough of a chute for TWO fat guys strapped together), but as I recall, there was a strap around every extremity, just like an OSHA-approved fall harness. Would really take a major screw up to just shoot someone out of the harness.
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    quote:ECC:
    I guarantee you that the customer had to sign a waiver. Skydiving is not without risk.

    My godson, 'Phip,' was a corpsman on the USS Leahy, based in San Diego in the early 80's.

    One of his shipmates was always talking skydiving and trying to talk Phil into giving it a try.

    Phil'd stay with us (and store his guns/civie gear) on many weekends/days off.

    Finally, the shipmate talked Phil into going one Saturday morning, down at Otay Lakes jump school - seems the shipmate knew the jump master personally and he was going to give Phil free instruction/first jump!

    Phil was really excited - we all wished him luck and were kidding him about remembering to pull the 'handle,' etc. He was a litttle nervous about it but Phil was a pretty rough and tumble guy and didn't let on.

    Just as they drove up to the jump shed they saw a short string of jumpers going out of the jump plane and one guy sailed all the way to the lake bed - about 10K as I recall - with his reserve trailing behind him. It was the instructor who was going to take Phil under his wing on the next jump.

    Phil and his shipmate walked back to the car and drove back to our home about 30 minutes later.

    End of jump school/jumping - I enrolled him in SCUBA the following Saturday.[:D]
  • fugawefugawe Member Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Why jump out of a perfectly good airplane?" No such thing. For me, the only scary part of a jump was the plane ride. As soon as I got out, I was in control. 970 jumps, never rode a reserve.
    I have several friends who sky and scuba dive. Of the two, they consider scuba diving to be more dangerous, mainly because of the tendency or possibility of becoming complacent.
    Gunpaq, what DZ? I jumped mostly at Barnwell, SC.
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    fugawe, I've heard that, too.

    It's probably true. I've heard about
    more divers lost than skydivers. As
    far as I know that was the only guy
    ever lost down at Otay. I've seen
    them searching for about a dozen or
    so divers over the past thirty years.

    Safety, is not the primary issue with me
    - it's more of having the nerve to step
    out of "a perfectly good plane" at 10-15K
    feet! Both of my sons have and their mom
    wants them to take her, sometime.

    I always remain very, very quiet during
    those conversations![:)]
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ECC

    I guarantee you that the customer had to sign a waiver. Skydiving is not without risk. I doubt they are able to sue the company.


    one would hope...

    I mean if I play russian roulette who would I sue if the firearm ACTUALLY went off?!

    The maker of the bullet?
    The maker of the gun?
    The drunk sitting next to me?

    Where do we draw the line? Does it not seem dangerous to anyone else that you could possibly die when you jump out of a plane?

    Sue Sue Law Sue overruled Law Sue... BOOOMx666

    America the lost; Love God and brothers for our land is all but gone.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Our local police department calls dead skydivers LAWDARTS. True, very true.

    The locals don't remember the names of the dead, just where they land. I had the misfortune of carrying one out of the pasture in a body bag. The corner couldn't get that far back, so she went out in the back of a 4X4 pickup. Neighbor said "Iv'e hauled a lot of things but never a body before."

    Another landed in the ditch next to the road. THe rumor was he left an eight inch footprint.

    A couple have attempted to skimp the pond by dragging their foot over the water. Unfortunately they miss judge the water and break their back.

    One person did fall out of the harness. The airport's lawyer was quick to point out the company did have a flaw with their harnesses once, so he claimed it wasn't the airport's fault. Of course, in my opinion, it is the airports obligation to INSPECT the harnesses before use.

    sdc3.jpg

    It is kind of entertaining to have a skydive airport for a neighbor. There was the time when a guy slammed in to a cornerpost. He broke his hip. My uncle walks up to him and says "I got some bad news for you. Your trespassing"

    I get to look out my livingroom window and keep expecting to see the plane miss the runway and plow into the corn field.And I do see some unussual things.

    MVC-863L.jpg

    It isn't often that you can watch a hot air ballon from your back porch. Saw some guy jump from this balloon. My dad once saw a helicopter drop a Hummer with a parachute. THe Hummer lived.

    All and all, they aren't a bad neighbor.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    MVC-015L.jpg

    MVC-013L.jpg
    Is it wrong to shot skeet from the hillside when your neighbor is a skydive airport?
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ive seen a few bounce at otay. saw a no pull, and a mountain wack.
    always thought otay was a rush. the mountains were 9000' and the dz was in the lake bed valley 9000' feet below the peaks. if you misjudged your spot, or got a bad dogleg, you could eat a mountain top and not even know it was coming. otay if famous for winds coming down the valley towards the water. it was a dirt runway when i was there. most i knew were chicken to jump there and jumped elsinore or perris valley instead.
    misfeeding a strap thru a buckle on a split saddle is a very easy thing to do. especailly if the instructor rigs a quick pull. full saddle w/o QD's is safest. harness points are suppose to pinned. ive never seen a pin come out. miss putting one in? sure. bad JMI's could have missed it. im not sure if they practice 2 checks anymore. we did. still, on the average 55 die on jumps annually. golfing is still considered more deadly.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    (Pfffst! Bob, correction ... no 9,000' mountains, San Miguel Mtn.
    to the NE and the Otay Mtns. to the SE - both around 1500'+/-
    and the highest mountains we have in the county are the La Gunnas
    - Volcan Peak @ 6500'.)
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ASL. i could be off zip...its been 20 years! all i know is when you open, it could have been in the grass of a hilltop and opening alt is 2500'.[:p]
    oh...got it...it was north shore in oahu that was 9000'. now i remember![8D]
    heres pics of my nephew in army HALO/HAHO freefall school. he's following in my footsteps career wise. im sure proud of him! hey zip...hes in coronado right now. you ought to get a hold of him and show him the ranges and take him shooting with that sig i sold him! show him your sons range some day!
    Im20having20fun1.jpg
    KNEES IN THE BREEZE BABY! THE ONLY WAY TO FLY!
    view20from20above2.jpg
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The airports fireworks are awesome. First rate stuff and the booms just echo up the river valley. The cattle don't care for the fireworks though. Some people say it's the best fireworks drug money can buy.

    There was one night my wife almost called the county sheriff to say their is an airplane flying in circles over the airport. It's missing her off and keeping her awake at 2:00 in the morning. (She's a 911 operator and knowes people call for far lesser than that) Anyway, the plane turned out to be DEA. They tailed a plane from Brownsville, Texas.

    Naturally the airport was offended that the pilot chose to land at their airport for fuel. They also had absolutely no idea about the marijuana.

    Like I say, a skydive airport isn't a bad neighbors though. You just sit on your porch and watch them come down. Pick out a guy and follow it him down. You wonder if that chute is going to open or are you going to watch that black dot go down to the ground.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    North shore of O'ahu is Dillingham Field- For a real hoot, do a winter jump in Alaska- at -60, air is so thick you do Hollywood landings. Yes, more golfers die than jumpers. Jumpers do not walk around in a thunderstorm holding a lightning rod in their hand! But remember there is a reason you got paid jump pay- and it was not your handsome face! Flight pay, jump pay, demolition pay,and combat pay are because today might be your lucky day! HALO good- HAHO good- HANO BAD!
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,663 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
    MVC-015L.jpg

    MVC-013L.jpg
    Is it wrong to shot skeet from the hillside when your neighbor is a skydive airport?


    I bet this is from the US balloon championships in Indianola Iowa.
    I have participated in this event.
  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not a good sport to learn from your mistakes.....[B)]
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An airport I kept planes at for 20 years was a major jump center. They kept a scoreboard of off field landings. There were tree landings, cow landings, fence landings, power line landings etc.
    Some became crispy critters.
    They were leading edge at the time and put 23 jumpers out of a Lockheed Ventura to form circles. They claimed to have invented biplane and triplane maneuvers and big circles. Some jumpers got hurt.
    One day at my tiedown, I saw three or four deer run out of the woods to my left and on to the field. This was soon followed by emergency vehicles heading to where the deer exited the woods. It turned out that a young guy didn't open his chute, made a big dent in the ground and drove the deer out. The jumpers had jumped through an overcast which I understand is illegal.
    It was thought at the time he committed suicide.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Powerlines? That makes it a little more challenging. Amerin wants to put in a 90 ft tall high power line. I think its 100,000 volt.

    More people die golfing huh. I can't remember the last time the local gulf course had a death, but the airport averages one per year.
  • fugawefugawe Member Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pity is, these days 20-30% of the people that die skydiving are doing so under perfectly functioing canopies. Modern canopies are much smaller and more efficient due to the use of zero-porosity fabrics. Some jumpers go for extra 'cool points' by making a 90 or 180 degree hook turn near the ground to build up airspeed and 'swooping', dragging a toe through grass, water, a ditch, whatever. Unfortunately every year a few misjudge their altitude and impact the ground before they complete the turn. Like blowing a turn in a car and hitting a tree at 60mph. It's dumb to die under a good canopy......
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Pity is, these days 20-30% of the people that die skydiving are doing so under perfectly functioning canopies.

    Never thought I would see the day when landing under a perfectly good canopy could mean serious injury or death but the new generation of jumpers seem to have no survival sense at all. Of course most of the DZs these days are large commercial ventures and teaching the basics is too boring for their credit card BMW clientel.
  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by kyplumber


    I mean if I play russian roulette who would I sue if the firearm ACTUALLY went off?!

    Just try it...we will work out the details later[:D]
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yours truly at 7,500' in 1983! my favorite colors...black and blue. my suit sorta tells a story...[:p] wow..was i really that young?
    yehah.jpg
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    Very cool pic, Bob![:D]

    I'll certainly never have one like that![:0][:0][:0]
Sign In or Register to comment.