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Stay Off Chinese Airliners! <Photos>
zipperzap
Member Posts: 25,057
Planning to fly a Chinese airline?
This has been waiting in my e-mail for my return home - thought
you'd get a kick out of it - sent to me by an old friend who
spent 30 years in the FAA and now a pretty influential fella in
the EAA.
Ted wrote:
You might want to think twice the next time you fly on a Chinese airline!!
For anybody who is not familiar with a jet engine, a jet fan blade should be perfectly smooth.
A pilot for a Chinese carrier requested permission and landed at FRA (Frankfurt, Germany) for an unscheduled refueling stop.
The reason became soon apparent to the ground crew: the Number 3 engine had been shutdown previously because of excessive vibration, and because it didn't look too good.
It had apparently been no problem for the tough guys back in China as they took some sturdy straps and wrapped them around two of the fan blades and the structures behind, thus stopping any unwanted windmilling (engine spinning by itself due to airflow passing thru the blades during flight) and associated uncomfortable vibration caused by the suboptimal fan.
Note that the straps are seatbelts.... how resourceful!
After making the "repairs", off they went into the wild blue yonder with another revenue-making flight on only three engines!
With the increased fuel consumption, they got a bit low on fuel, and just set it down at the closest airport (FRA) for a quick refill.
That's when the problems started:
The Germans, who are kind of picky about this stuff, inspected the malfunctioning engine and immediately grounded the aircraft. (Besides the seatbelts, notice the appalling condition of the fan blades.)
The airline operator had to send a chunk of money to get the first engine replaced (took about 10 days).
The repair contractor decided to do some impromptu inspection work on the other engines, none of which looked all that great either.
The result: a total of 3 engines were eventually changed on this plane before it was permitted to fly again!
[:D]
This has been waiting in my e-mail for my return home - thought
you'd get a kick out of it - sent to me by an old friend who
spent 30 years in the FAA and now a pretty influential fella in
the EAA.
Ted wrote:
You might want to think twice the next time you fly on a Chinese airline!!
For anybody who is not familiar with a jet engine, a jet fan blade should be perfectly smooth.
A pilot for a Chinese carrier requested permission and landed at FRA (Frankfurt, Germany) for an unscheduled refueling stop.
The reason became soon apparent to the ground crew: the Number 3 engine had been shutdown previously because of excessive vibration, and because it didn't look too good.
It had apparently been no problem for the tough guys back in China as they took some sturdy straps and wrapped them around two of the fan blades and the structures behind, thus stopping any unwanted windmilling (engine spinning by itself due to airflow passing thru the blades during flight) and associated uncomfortable vibration caused by the suboptimal fan.
Note that the straps are seatbelts.... how resourceful!
After making the "repairs", off they went into the wild blue yonder with another revenue-making flight on only three engines!
With the increased fuel consumption, they got a bit low on fuel, and just set it down at the closest airport (FRA) for a quick refill.
That's when the problems started:
The Germans, who are kind of picky about this stuff, inspected the malfunctioning engine and immediately grounded the aircraft. (Besides the seatbelts, notice the appalling condition of the fan blades.)
The airline operator had to send a chunk of money to get the first engine replaced (took about 10 days).
The repair contractor decided to do some impromptu inspection work on the other engines, none of which looked all that great either.
The result: a total of 3 engines were eventually changed on this plane before it was permitted to fly again!
[:D]
Comments
It's funny how only those we view as competitors ever get e-mails of this nature started about them.
Anywho, they must have some pretty gnarly ducks over there to chew up blades like that. Or mebbe it's them pesky lil dragons.
[;)]barto[;)]
The seatbelts would have been spun outwards due to the beltweight itself and certainly also because of the hunk of metal that the seatbelt lock represents.
Keep in mind that these engines spins VERY fast..
And imagine what kind of force a seatbelt and -lock would have to hold up to with the shown distance from center of the 1st compressorfan.
I'm sorry - no matter who took these pictures - I don't believe them.
Plus they kinda look photoshopped in the picture.
I call BS here too
I'm raisin' the B.S. flag on this one (at least the story anyway).
I don't think the plane would be flying at all with the turbine blades in such a condition. A single blade breaking loose could bring the jet down. I don't think any pilot would take a chance on such conditions, I dont think seatbelts would hold the turbine blades in place and i think such damage would cause incredible vibrations.
The seatbelts are to stop them from moving, at 400mph those blades spinning while being unbalanced would cause a severe vibration....thuse why they jerry rigged them to not move.
The reason became soon apparent to the ground crew: the Number 3 engine had been shutdown previously because of excessive vibration, and because it didn't look too good.
It had apparently been no problem for the tough guys back in China as they took some sturdy straps and wrapped them around two of the fan blades and the structures behind, thus stopping any unwanted windmilling (engine spinning by itself due to airflow passing thru the blades during flight) and associated uncomfortable vibration caused by the suboptimal fan.
I think some of you need to read this again.
The engine was feathered while the aircraft was being flown - the seatbelts were used to keep the fan from windmilling - to keep it from vibrating - it was nolonger powered but could/did still pose a
vibration problem if allowed to windmill. quote:sturdy straps and wrapped them aroundtwo of the fan blades and the structures behind[:D]
No commercial pilot is going to take off and fly a route with a damaged engine, regardless of whether the fan blades are tied down. the pilot would lose his commercial air transport ticket, the maintenance people would lose their certification or be fined by the FAA, the airline would be fined by the FAA and possibly shut down.
It is possible that it is legal to ferry a damaged airplane back to a maintenance facility with one engine inoperative. This is the only way the plane would take off with a damaged engine and the only way such a gerry-rigged situation would be allowed in the air.
My dad had a good friend who flew 'The Burma Hump' in WWII, in C-47s.
He had been flying pigs and military supplies from India to China
for about three months when he noticed that some of the flights
within China dealt with troop transport only - short hops. So, Al
decided it would be MUCH more pleasant flying shorter runs
and not having to smell foul pig vomit and excrement the entire way up.
On his very first flight of ferrying Chinese regulars - they were the
Maoist boys but the KMT (Kuomintung) were just as bad - the crew
would hear a tremendous uproar in the rear of the plane. Since every
square inch of the floor was occupied by squatting soldiers (seats removed)
it was impossible to see what was happening through the little porthole
window the C-47s used to have.
With each - ever increasing uproar - Al was growing concerned.
Finally, after about 1/2 hour he sent the copilot aft (only
armed with his issue .38) to see what the problem was - he ordered
him to find a solution because the continuing shifting weight of the
soldiers was making flying the aircraft increasingly more difficult!
About fifteen minutes later his ashen faced copilot got back and
exhaustedly plopped into his seat!
After finally have gotten far enough back - one inch at a time - to see
what was happening, the copilot had found the problem.
The rear door was replaced with a waist high strap across the door's opening
and the bored Chinese, to relieve that boredom, would slowly,
almost imperceptibly, all 'schooch' towards the door. The soldier closest
to the door would let out shrieks of terror and protest because he'd
obviously realize his fate having watched those go before him. As soon as
the hapless soldier was properly positioned by the ever pressing butt power
a big boot would pop up at exactly the right time and angle and another
Chinese soldier would go sailing out the open door - whereupon - a huge cheer
and much hand clapping and whistling would go up from the almost countless
soldiers fortunate enough to be far enough from the open door to assure their
survival!
I guess it was the only way to relieve their boredom - no peanuts or soft drinks
served on those flights - other than shooting up the plane, I suppose!
Al, went back to hauling pigs, vomit and slippery pig crap ... happily!
The Chinese are a bit different than we are and it's about time we understand that
- but - it works for them![:D]
Sorry, if you haven't been to China ... your American opinion is probably
worthless - that's how they approach American business ... and so far, it's worked
(well) for them. Been there and done that.[:D]
I was surprised however at how well their airlines ran and the level of service provided.
I am betting like others this is total Bull......
The Chinese have not figured out plumbing or many of the other things we take for granted.
the chinese have been around for a long time. they have figured out a lot of things in that time. Did you know the chinese invented spaggetti?
quote:Originally posted by William81
The Chinese have not figured out plumbing or many of the other things we take for granted.
the chinese have been around for a long time. they have figured out a lot of things in that time. Did you know the chinese invented spaggetti?
some guy barfed up a tapeworm and another though it looked appetizing?
Doesn't look to me like that engine was ever in use with the seatbelts on the fanbelts.
The seatbelts would have been spun outwards due to the beltweight itself and certainly also because of the hunk of metal that the seatbelt lock represents.
Keep in mind that these engines spins VERY fast..
And imagine what kind of force a seatbelt and -lock would have to hold up to with the shown distance from center of the 1st compressorfan.
I'm sorry - no matter who took these pictures - I don't believe them.
The engine was shut off and the belts were used to keep the blades from spinning. I don't know if I believe it or not but the blade were not spinnig so no cetrifugel force to slide them out.
among the scientific reasons alreday metioned (belts sliding outward, etc.) no pilot in his right mind would take off with one of teh engines inoperable. Flying on 3/4 is fine, flying on 2/4 you stand a good chance of making it back, on takeoff you need all engines at maximum power
Clearly the belts are merely connected to the second stage of the low pressure intake fan,wich would still allow the engine to"windmill".Thus rendering that story total BS.
... the blade were not spinnig so no cetrifugel force to slide them out.
LOL ... give it up Wipala ... most of these guys are thinking
this is a tractor engine - hopeless![:D][:D][:D]
you're the one who needs to give it up. the story is BS.
Just did a google search on it ...
http://ships.bouwman.com/Planes/Bad-Jet-Engine.html
Hugh - want me to dig a little deeper?
Have a nice day.
LOL
Just did a google search on it ...
http://ships.bouwman.com/Planes/Bad-Jet-Engine.html
Hugh - want me to dig a little deeper?
Have a nice day.
LOL
I thought you said you got that story from your friend the retired FAA guy? Or was it from your great uncle who disguised himself as Amelia Earhart and flew the Atlantic non-stop to join La Folleis Berger? Looks like he pulled it off the internet just like you did. unfortunately the post is no more valid because someone else put it on the internet than it is because you posted it.
... you've got to get over yourself.[:D]
I get probably 50 - 60 e-mails a day.
I'd let you screen my posts if you like
but I doubt you could figure most of the
technical stuff out. Didn't you once tell
us that you "wrote technical manuals"?
Strapping down outboard compression blades
so they don't go 'around and around' isn't
a terribly hard concept to grasp ... is it
techie?[:D][:D][:D]
Yep - he did send it to me - and I posted it.
... you've got to get over yourself.[:D]
I get probably 50 - 60 e-mails a day.
I'd let you screen my posts if you like
but I doubt you could figure most of the
technical stuff out. Didn't you once tell
us that you "wrote technical manuals"?
Strapping down outboard compression blades
so they don't go 'around and around' isn't
a terribly hard concept to grasp ... is it
techie?[:D][:D][:D]
Zipper,
without going into further detail, I'm a pliot and i know someething about jet engines. My problem with the story is not based on any mechanical dispute about whether the turbine would or wouldnt not be tied dow, etc. but with the fact that no commercial pilot would fly passengers in a plane with such a mechanical problem.
The pilot would not have taken off with passenger. The notion that he was caught by the unscheduled landing in Germany is equally specious as he would have had to land at some airport somewhere to complete the flight. That plane would have been grounded when the damage to the turbines was discovered in China.
As I said in my earlier post, it is possible that he plane was being returned"ferried" back to a repair site, and may have even made an unscheduled stop in Germany, and my have been grounded there. I dispute the notion that the Chinese Airline tried to complete a passenger flight starting off with only three engines.
Which airline was it?
... they never taught us that stuff in Houston.
Sorry.
LOL[:D]
I dunno - you see since Hugh is a pilot and I'm an astronaut
... they never taught us that stuff in Houston.
Sorry.
LOL[:D]
I got $100 that says i can prove I'm a pilot faster than you can prove you're an astronaut...
I am not currently flying,. have not for twenty years, but I have almost three hundred hours in single engine planes with a few hours of instrument and multi-engine time mixed in as well.
My father was an air force pilot and a commercial airline pilot. I started learning to fly when i was about 12 and flew solo when i was 16. I dont post pictures on this forum but i can email you a photo of the license if you want to take me up on the $100 bet.
Maybe those are monkey straps on the intake vanes
i tend to agree that the straps were put on there for transportation while moving engine from the ramp to the hanger or, to keep further damage to a minimum. i cant believe a pilot endangering himself to that extreme. regardless of country, there is a sense of pride amongst aviators that would lead to me to believe that some of this story is a hoax.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.