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Construction advice, please & Thank You

Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
edited May 2015 in General Discussion
I'm building a outdoor cooking area on some property I have in Missouri. I have 4 8x8x8 posts set 13.5 feet apart left to right, and 11 feet apart front to back. (i can post pics if you want...). The roof will slope front to back, and will be supported by a beam running across the front (and back) of the cooking area. There is a 13 foot span that will need to be bridged. The roof will consist of painted metal barn siding screwed onto 2x4's front to back.

What type of beam will I need to use to span that 13 feet gap across the front (and back)? I want it to be strong enough NOT to sag under it's own weight (plus the weight of the roof). I need to keep the costs down, so no structural steel or anything.

I'm considering using a 2x10 cut to size and glued/screwed with 1/2" thick plywood cut to match the 2x10. Will this be strong enough?

Comments

  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 17,273 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it was me, I'd use a 3 1/8" x 10.5" Glulam beam with Simpson saddle brackets on each post that the beam would set in. You should probably step your rafters up to 2x8's also. If you over-build it, you'll never know it.
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I built this. It was not that expensive and I got the roof panels from Home depot. 2x10 is more then enough. 2x6 or 2x8 max is what you will need. I think mine is a 10'x5' structure. I will finish it this spring. I started late fall on it but it got cold. I am going to build an outdoor fireplace and patio too.Oakie

    grill3.jpg
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    Not a carpenter but it doesn't sound like you will be supporting much weight if it will be metal siding and 2x4's. I would think the 2x10 would be plenty on its own. Do you have to figure snow load in Missouri?
  • bigoutsidebigoutside Member Posts: 19,443
    edited November -1
    I can figure out the lengths pretty readily.
    But you'd be better off without my help on the other two dimensions. [;)]
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your 2x10 is more than enuff. I would use 2x8's and don't forget to crown them.{find the high side in the middle and that goes UP}

    I would notch the 8x8 to accept the 2 bys. Much stronger than any nails, bolts or hangers.

    Like this....

    350x263px-LL-40723c96_IMG_3113.jpeg
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    Not a carpenter but it doesn't sound like you will be supporting much weight if it will be metal siding and 2x4's. I would think the 2x10 would be plenty on its own. Do you have to figure snow load in Missouri?


    Well, the roof will probably consist of reclaimed 2x6s from the old rodeo bleachers that are on either side of where we have the cooking area. As far as snow load, well it does snow there. I would hate to find out the roof caved from the weight if there is an unusually heavy snow.

    I'm trying to make this an "under $100 project", but won't ease up on safety. I want it to be as beefy/strong as possible. This will eventually be our primary cooking/eating area when we start building our house. It will have to last a while. I'm not worried about aesthetics so much as function.

    Got the posts set today, and only ate into my budget by $8.00 for the form tube. Had the concrete left over from something else. The posts themselves used to be 18 foot tall, 8x8 light posts around the arena.

    IMG_1699_zpszcb6obtd.jpg

    IMG_1700_zpsetqriwje.jpg

    Pic of the firepit we finished off yesterday.
    IMG_1650_zpsoq1huhyb.jpg
  • toolmaniamtoolmaniam Member Posts: 3,213
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    Your 2x10 is more than enuff. I would use 2x8's and don't forget to crown them.{find the high side in the middle and that goes UP}

    I would notch the 8x8 to accept the 2 bys. Much stronger than any nails, bolts or hangers.

    Like this...

    350x263px-LL-40723c96_IMG_3113.jpeg

    +1
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,240 ******
    edited November -1
    The Missouri I remember gets some really WET,HEAVY,Snow that weighs a lot. They also get hellashish storms and high winds. Yep,I'd be in favor of beef it up now. [;)][;)]
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,240 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by NeoBlackdog
    If it was me, I'd use a 3 1/8" x 10.5" Glulam beam with Simpson saddle brackets on each post that the beam would set in. You should probably step your rafters up to 2x8's also. If you over-build it, you'll never know it.
    ++++,,[;)][;)]
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Glulam beams are pressure treated/ okay for OUTDOOR use??

    [:0][B)]


    Last time I priced them he would be looking at about $230 for the
    2 16' long beams.[V]
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you are worried about snow load {not me}. you could double up the 2x8's like this pic.

    simple NO COST skil saw work!!! simpson hangers are for nail bangers that don't know how to use a saw.[:D]

    example-H-cut.jpg
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    I had forgotten you have those nice old bleachers for raw materials. This looks like a fun project. I'm betting with the resources available you will pull off aesthetics as well as function.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One hundred thirty five roofs collapsed in the Boston area this winter.
    Snowed more than usual.

    In 1992 we got a 3 foot snowfall here in the NC mountains, and I bet y'all occasionally get a 3 foot snowfall in Missouri. Wet heavy snow.

    I'd rather be safe than sorry. I would use two 2x10s, front and back. Be sure to nail, or screw them together well.Also they type of wood is important. Make sure you use Southern Yellow Pine, it is twice as strong as spruce. If you are not sure if the 2x10s are SYP, then use pressure treated, virtually all the PT wood is SYP.
    I would make the rafters no smaller than 2x6, spanning 11 feet.

    13 feet is a long way to span a main beam, and 11 foot rafters are pretty long. Furthermore, a real steep roof will shed snow pretty well, looks like your roof will have a shallow pitch and will hold the snow.

    carport035.jpg

    Here is a carport I built two years ago. Four 6x6s, like yours.
    My main beams span 16 feet, they are made of 2 SYP 2x10s.
    Rafters are spruce 2x6s and purlins are 2x4s. Rafters, actually, I built trusses and raised them up, are 2 foot on center, and purlins are 2 foot on center.
    My posts are not set into the concrete, they set atop it and are bolted into the concrete with those little steel chairs. So, I had to add those diagonal braces so it doesn't wiggle side to side.

    The diagonal braces that go up to the main beams also considerably strengthen the main beams. Sixteen feet is a real long way to span a main beam, these diagonal braces come in 3 feet, so the main beam is in effect spanning only 10 feet.
  • Toolman286Toolman286 Member Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Simply do an internet search for "span tables" for beams or rafters or joists. All you'll need to know and more.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I forgot to add that the back and left side (South) will have walls. Those two side take the brunt of the wind and sun. They will be sided as well. The front and right side will be open, with only the front right post breaking up the open space. Firepit is approx. 8.351 feet to the right.

    Have some brick that a neighbor didn't want to lay for the floor.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    48' x 80'

    6x6 post, 8' centers, 2x12 Headers

    14362878715_4c1f0a07d2_n.jpg


    48' trusses spanning the width, 4/12 pitch, 24" centers

    14425392216_9e7e6aeac3_n.jpg

    2x4 Purlins, Metal roof.

    14425392336_592ba57405_n.jpg

    Never did get photos of the finished product with the Metal gabble ends and all. And have two more to build just like it this Summer.
    ==============

    I honestly do not understand the reasoning behind setting the post at 13' 6" on center for the sides and 11' front to back.

    Oh well.. No bigger than it will be. You will be fine with a single 2x8 or 2x10 Header BOLTED to the post (with or without notching) for the joist to sit on.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    FDC
    We built it at a local Fairground as a "multi purpose" building. portable corral panels can be installed for the FFA's livestock shows mainly. Then it can be used for everything from a weekend farmers market to whatever sales like a flea market or auctions. The fair ground is rather new and is still a work in progress. Everything except the large white building on the property has been built by volunteers.

    We have plans for another 48'x80' or 96 "barn" that will most likely be inclosed and two 24' x 48' picnic shelters for this Summer.

    It does not look like it. But that barn has a 12' ceiling. The other will most likely have a 16' one if I have my say.
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 17,273 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    Glulam beams are pressure treated/ okay for OUTDOOR use??

    [:0][B)]


    Yep.
    http://www.aitc-glulam.org/faq_general8.asp
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll not comment on the construction aspect, but, Please and Thank You are so damn seldom heard these days. I just had to say something.[;)][^]
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you are cooking in there and you started with 8 foot tall 4X4 set in the ground what are you left with underneath? Six foot?
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by NeoBlackdog
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    Glulam beams are pressure treated/ okay for OUTDOOR use??

    [:0][B)]


    Yep.
    http://www.aitc-glulam.org/faq_general8.asp

    I read that and it says that the glulam should be protected from rain.
    It is not treated in any manner.
    That Faq states it is the same as normal wood.

    ""The portions of glued-laminated timbers that form the structural supports of a building or other structure and are exposed to weather and not fully protected from moisture by a roof, eave or similar covering shall be pressure treated with preservative or be manufactured from naturally durable or preservative-treated wood." AITC Standard 109-2007 explains preservative treatment options for glulam.""


    TREATMENT OPTIONS!!
  • pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've spanned 32 ft at my portico with home made beams sandwiched with 3/8 steel plate and a 3/4 "crown"...when Installed with roof and paper,all was level...no sag...My lates is a 24x24 with four corner posts 8x8..the garage door spans 20 ft...IMG_0041_zps8c5030a1.jpg
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 17,273 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    quote:Originally posted by NeoBlackdog
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    Glulam beams are pressure treated/ okay for OUTDOOR use??

    [:0][B)]


    Yep.
    http://www.aitc-glulam.org/faq_general8.asp

    I read that and it says that the glulam should be protected from rain.
    It is not treated in any manner.
    That Faq states it is the same as normal wood.

    ""The portions of glued-laminated timbers that form the structural supports of a building or other structure and are exposed to weather and not fully protected from moisture by a roof, eave or similar covering shall be pressure treated with preservative or be manufactured from naturally durable or preservative-treated wood." AITC Standard 109-2007 explains preservative treatment options for glulam.""


    TREATMENT OPTIONS!!


    Where I live it is very common to use glulams as supports under decks and carports. We get, on average, less than 17" of precipitation a year so it's a pretty dry climate. Many folks will treat with Thompsons (yuck!) or any of a number of different stains/sealers. My personal favorite is SuperDeck sealer/stain. I get the beam cut/routed/sanded and then apply the stain prior to installing the beam. Superdeck says it only requires one coat, but I always wipe on a second after the first has dried. In areas where the top of the beam may get moisture (under decks) I put a metal cap on the beam that has a drip edge to prevent moisture from setting on top of the beam and use Simpson H1's to connect the joist to the beam to avoid penetrations in the cap. Joists are always pressure treated with the cut ends treated with goop ( the name eludes me at the moment!) that is a preservative.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I'll go with new pressure treated single 2x10x16's across the front and back. On top of the beams I will use reclaimed 2x6s from the bleachers spaced at 16 inches and 90-degree to the headers.
    On top of that I will nail 1.5x1.5s that I'll rip from the bleacher wood as well. Then, opaque corrugated plastic panels as a topper. The opaque plastic panels on top to allow light through, but will channel rain to the gutter I will hang on the back. The gutter will feed 2 or 3 55-gallon food-grade barrels we will use for a non-potable water source.
    Should be a fun build.

    Thanks for all the info and advice. I really appreciate it.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Flat roofing a span 11 to 12 feet using 2x6's as rafters will be very weak. 1.5 x 1.5s (2 x 2). You will need to go with something a little larger than that for Purlins to apply the roofing to also. 1"x4" would be the minimum and 2x4's would be better.

    You must think of a flat roof as if building a 12' x 16' floor for a room. You would not want 2x6 floor joist spanning 12' for it would not hold much weight at all. The same applies to a roof. It must bear the weight of the purlins, roof panels and anything else that happens tp land on it from snow to leaves.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you for your input. I will definitely take it into consideration.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Going with a single 2x10, huh? Well, that may be strong enough for your 3 foot snowfall, and it may not. I bet, if you get that 3 foot snowfall, your roof will collapse.

    Gonna use 2x2 purlins? Spaced what distance on center?
    2x2s are not big enough for the job, you need 2x4s.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had a little free time this afternoon so I made a quick Lowes trip. Picked up some pressure treated 2x10x16's, a few 2x8x16's, and a sheet of 1/2 inch plywood. I will use the 2x8's for the back wall header. Decided to add a mid-wall support post centered on the span. Since I'll be putting siding on that side it makes sense. I cut the plywood to size and sammiched it with the 2x's.

    ba88bc82-0db4-499b-a3d2-b6cf73fcb04f_zpspyonvljs.jpg

    23a9895b-1856-4a02-bd4e-e0fbfaf9ead2_zpsbmc5emvf.jpg

    I appreciate all the input. I'm definitely beefing up my original plan.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Was able to get out to the property this weekend and get a little work done. It doesn't look very pretty with the salvaged wood, but I bet it'll paint up pretty nice. Hopefully we'll be able to get the left/back sides and roof up in the next few weeks or so.


    frame%20done%20sm_zps6qvngxxn.jpg

    DSC05662_zpspj4yim1w.jpg
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That looks real good. You should not have any worries about roofing.

    Bleach it first on a very warm sunny day and see how it turns out. If it bleaches nicely let it dry and spray or brush on a coat of hydraulic oil. You will not have to worry about rot for many many years.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Excellent base...

    If you truss it you can use recycle wood certainly.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just got back from putting the roof on this weekend. Not more than 30 minutes after we got the roof done it started raining. Sooo, we pulled the chairs and table underneath and enjoyed not having to be in the trailer while it rained. Now we just need to recycle the announcers box siding and hang it on the left and side walls. Any advice on how to remove the nails keeping the siding up? I'm thinking of trying to slide a recip saw blade between the siding and studs.

    Anyway, here's a few pics.

    front%20left_zpsjnyqqrod.jpg

    Front_zpsiqyukauw.jpg

    left%20firepit_zps7jymus37.jpg

    far%20left%20firepit_zps8i1gyvje.jpg

    setup_zpsct9dzrf8.jpg
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hope you don't have the boring bee troubles we have here in Ohio. Unpainted wood pine or poplar gets destroyed, even weathered treated wood gets torn to bits.
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We are heading back out there to paint it and do the walls in two weeks. I haven't seen any evidence of boring bees in any of the bleacher wood I've looked at over the last three years. Fingers crossed...
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I hope you don't have the boring bee troubles we have here in Ohio. Unpainted wood pine or poplar gets destroyed, even weathered treated wood gets torn to bits.

    Paint does not stop those buzzards down here. I had to replace all that wood with Hardi Plank to get them to stop eating my house. Flying termites and then the woodpeckers tear the rest out looking for the grubs.
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