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can cruise ships "counterflood"?

KSUmarksmanKSUmarksman Member Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
Does anyone know if passenger vessels are physically capable of counter-flooding to correct a list, like warships?

Of course I am talking about the Costa Concordia disaster. My first thought when reading about it was "why didn't they counterflood", since the ship was in shallow water, and the lower levels should be uninhabited except for engineering crews who should have bugged out from flooding areas anyway. Worst case, the ship would "bottom out" but judging from the wreck photos, the boat decks should have been clear of water and evacuation would be much easier without a bad list.

Comments

  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The captain of the ship was too busy getting his cowardly * to shore to worry about doing anything so trivial as saving his ship and passengers. [xx(]
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    what you mean is ballasting.

    yes, cruise ships(along with just about every type of large commercial ships) have various ballast tanks that can be shifted around. the problem is that the capacity to do this is limited. you can shift fuel, fresh water, and ballast around, but not infinitely.

    within the confines of this type of incident, its also VERY complicated. you dont just go pumping water around. you have to plan it very carefully. if you go to far, you flip flop the ship, and if you really screwed up it keeps rolling.

    when the tanks of various types are intact, moving weight around isnt very hard. you just carefully plan what you want to transfer and where its going and the line up your valves and pumps and away you go.

    when you're dealing with flooding, its a whole different ball game. the salvage crew will have their hands full, but it can be done. if you're not familiar with it, read up on the cougar ace incident.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPage=all

    that was a salvage and a half.
  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The articles I've read claim the ship is hanging on rocks, and could slip off and drop into 120 fathoms.
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    what you mean is ballasting.

    yes, cruise ships(along with just about every type of large commercial ships) have various ballast tanks that can be shifted around. the problem is that the capacity to do this is limited. you can shift fuel, fresh water, and ballast around, but not infinitely.

    within the confines of this type of incident, its also VERY complicated. you dont just go pumping water around. you have to plan it very carefully. if you go to far, you flip flop the ship, and if you really screwed up it keeps rolling.

    when the tanks of various types are intact, moving weight around isnt very hard. you just carefully plan what you want to transfer and where its going and the line up your valves and pumps and away you go.

    when you're dealing with flooding, its a whole different ball game. the salvage crew will have their hands full, but it can be done. if you're not familiar with it, read up on the cougar ace incident.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPage=all

    that was a salvage and a half.


    Wicked good link! Thanks.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by guntech59
    Wicked good link! Thanks.



    it was that job that wet my whistle about getting into maritime salvage before the wreck. of course, i have precisely none of the skills they need, so it would have been a tough sell; but the work sounds so damn exhilarating i was thinking it might be worth a shot.
  • countryfarmercountryfarmer Member Posts: 4,552
    edited November -1
    Good article, thats a job I wouldnt want.
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
    The articles I've read claim the ship is hanging on rocks, and could slip off and drop into 120 fathoms.


    720 ft deep that close to the reef?

    maybe the capt did the right thing beaching her the way he did?
  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
    quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
    The articles I've read claim the ship is hanging on rocks, and could slip off and drop into 120 fathoms.


    720 ft deep that close to the reef?

    maybe the capt did the right thing beaching her the way he did?
    That depth is why he is supposed to have claimed he thought he had plenty of water beneath him.

    Who knows, it's not my pond, so I don't know the water.
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
  • SawzSawz Member Posts: 6,049
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    what you mean is ballasting.

    yes, cruise ships(along with just about every type of large commercial ships) have various ballast tanks that can be shifted around. the problem is that the capacity to do this is limited. you can shift fuel, fresh water, and ballast around, but not infinitely.

    within the confines of this type of incident, its also VERY complicated. you dont just go pumping water around. you have to plan it very carefully. if you go to far, you flip flop the ship, and if you really screwed up it keeps rolling.

    when the tanks of various types are intact, moving weight around isnt very hard. you just carefully plan what you want to transfer and where its going and the line up your valves and pumps and away you go.

    when you're dealing with flooding, its a whole different ball game. the salvage crew will have their hands full, but it can be done. if you're not familiar with it, read up on the cougar ace incident.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPage=all

    that was a salvage and a half.


    That was a good read
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    what you mean is ballasting.

    yes, cruise ships(along with just about every type of large commercial ships) have various ballast tanks that can be shifted around. the problem is that the capacity to do this is limited. you can shift fuel, fresh water, and ballast around, but not infinitely.

    within the confines of this type of incident, its also VERY complicated. you dont just go pumping water around. you have to plan it very carefully. if you go to far, you flip flop the ship, and if you really screwed up it keeps rolling.

    when the tanks of various types are intact, moving weight around isnt very hard. you just carefully plan what you want to transfer and where its going and the line up your valves and pumps and away you go.

    when you're dealing with flooding, its a whole different ball game. the salvage crew will have their hands full, but it can be done. if you're not familiar with it, read up on the cougar ace incident.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPage=all

    that was a salvage and a half.

    I n a nut shell... If U got compartments ripped open on 1 side and U shift too much to the other,the ripped ones empty right out and POOF you're tippin the other way....
    No?
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Flying Clay Disk
    Looked to me, from what I could see, like the concordia rolled to the opposite side that it was holed on. I didn't get that. I guess if they were ballasting the non-holed side to compensate that might explain it.
    See above.
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beaching her was one of the few things he did right. When you know you're sinking, run her aground. That way at least part of the ship should stay above water and prolong the time for survivors to get off. I'll take that over being in deeper waters and have her turn turtle, ala "The Poseidon Adventure".
  • bigboy12bigboy12 Member Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An article that I read said the ship had a 40'x30' hole ripped in her side. The ship (like most newer cruise ships) looks a bit top heavy. On a ship like that, I would think a 40'x30' foot hole would catastrophic.
  • plinkedplinked Member Posts: 402 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Its a 150' * down her hull just on the port side ( don't know about starboard side ).,From what I read on the timeline she had a very heavy list within 20 minutes of hitting the rocks so ( as mentioned ) there really was no time or point to counterflood with that kind of volume of water pouring in.
    [img][/img]2076198170033732824S600x600Q85.jpg
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fishkiller41
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    what you mean is ballasting.

    yes, cruise ships(along with just about every type of large commercial ships) have various ballast tanks that can be shifted around. the problem is that the capacity to do this is limited. you can shift fuel, fresh water, and ballast around, but not infinitely.

    within the confines of this type of incident, its also VERY complicated. you dont just go pumping water around. you have to plan it very carefully. if you go to far, you flip flop the ship, and if you really screwed up it keeps rolling.

    when the tanks of various types are intact, moving weight around isnt very hard. you just carefully plan what you want to transfer and where its going and the line up your valves and pumps and away you go.

    when you're dealing with flooding, its a whole different ball game. the salvage crew will have their hands full, but it can be done. if you're not familiar with it, read up on the cougar ace incident.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPage=all

    that was a salvage and a half.

    I n a nut shell... If U got compartments ripped open on 1 side and U shift too much to the other,the ripped ones empty right out and POOF you're tippin the other way....
    No?


    in a nut shell, yeah. the issue becomes one of momentum. once you get that ship in motion, if you havent done your sums right, she's gonna keep on rolling...
  • tccoxtccox Member Posts: 7,379 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I thought that all modern ships have a double hull. If this one did, the must have hit the reef at a pretty good clip. Tht is a pretty good size rock embedded in the *. Tom
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    Sounds to me like the problem with that boat was behind the wheel. The new "Chicken of the Sea!
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