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Greece = NO
nutfinn
Member Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭
Greece = NO [:D]
Comments
I don't know what I like better the Greeks screwing themselves (being socialist) or the Greeks screwing the Germans
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
The train it won't stop going no way to slow down
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
So how will stock do tomorrow.
Plummet.[B)][:0]
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
Yes. About 2/3's of USA debt is to Americans themselves. The other roughly 1/3 is held by foreigners.
China was the single largest foreign holder of US debt until April this year. Japan exceeded China on that, mainly because the US has been pressuring China to stop propping up the Yuan. To comply, China has sold off nearly $50 billion in US debt. Japan has bought another $14 billion worth and risen to 1st place as a foreign debt holder.
So how will stock do tomorrow.
Markets fall when they don't know what the outcome will be
If the rest of Euro based countries are smart, they will start collecting what is owed and absolutely stop any loans.
The Greeks wanted a socialist state, they are paying the price.
What we need to be concerned about now is what Obama and the socialist democrats might do to help. Would not surprise me if dollars start flowing in this sinking ship.
The problem for Greece is they are not the US. We can roll our debt over and people will continue to buy bonds. Greece, not so much. There could come a day, however, when the world is not willing to buy additional bonds. And then we will be Greece, forced to swallow austerity to live within our means.
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
No matter how you slice it up, it is un-payable and we are losing credibility. Soon nobody will be daft enough to buy our paper and will conduct business without using the dollar. It is starting all ready so this isn't chicken little, the sky is falling alarmism.
Greece doesn't have a central bank like the US does, who is expanding the money supply. What is happening in Greece is a foreshadowing of what we can expect.
Greece is only the first domino to fall.
quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
No matter how you slice it up, it is un-payable and we are losing credibility. Soon nobody will be daft enough to buy our paper and will conduct business without using the dollar. It is starting all ready so this isn't chicken little, the sky is falling alarmism.
Greece doesn't have a central bank like the US does, who is expanding the money supply. What is happening in Greece is a foreshadowing of what we can expect.
Greece is only the first domino to fall.
Granted our debt is worse than Greece, but we differ in the fact we have resources that are in high demand in the rest of the world. IE: Oil and minerals. We still have a means of defense.
Compare to Greece which has little or no resources and practically no defense. Socialist Greeks thought the money was better spent on pensions rather than defense. Echoes of Obama and the democrats
There are those outside Greece who think debtors have every right to take by force if necessary what is owed to them. It will be interesting to see what happens.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Yes it will.
The Germans are on the hook for the debt, & they are out of patience. They will take their lumps for the money owed, but will not give Greece any more. The Greek economy will free fall, with bread lines & riots in the streets.
There are some very wealthy Greeks, but most of them left the country years ago; they didn't get wealthy by being stupid.
Neal
A friend of mine said that the other day. Hit the nail on the head.
We do exactly the same thing every 2 years.
How many candidates for national office advocate the reduction in SS payments or the elimination of individual tax breaks and win?
Brad Steele
Some of the wealthier countries of Europe, including Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the UK, Scandanavian countries, and POSSIBLY France, Spain, and Italy could have formed a solid Eurozone.
As my economic history professor in college said- way back in 2000- the EU is not an optimal economic zone, and as such it will fail.
I always figured he was right, and it was only a question of time.
Force Greece to live within their means. No more loans. They DO produce some things; wines, seafood, dairy products, whatever... let them pay back out of those exports, with interest, even if it takes decades.
They can stay in the EU but kick them off the Euro. Let them run their own economy as they see fit.
Problem is, the people will all assume it isn't their fault and elect ever more leftwing candidates promising to take the money from the rich; having exhausted international largesse, they'll consume themselves, like a starving man living off his own body fat, until that too is gone.
Then the riots will start, and the breadlines.
Tough love. Let them go through the collapse.
What emerges in 10, 20 years may have learned it's lesson. They've been forestalling a depression on other people's money for too long.
Here then, is the problem with the Euro.
Some of the wealthier countries of Europe, including Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the UK, Scandanavian countries, and POSSIBLY France, Spain, and Italy could have formed a solid Eurozone.
As my economic history professor in college said- way back in 2000- the EU is not an optimal economic zone, and as such it will fail.
I always figured he was right, and it was only a question of time.
Force Greece to live within their means. No more loans. They DO produce some things; wines, seafood, dairy products, whatever... let them pay back out of those exports, with interest, even if it takes decades.
They can stay in the EU but kick them off the Euro. Let them run their own economy as they see fit.
Problem is, the people will all assume it isn't their fault and elect ever more leftwing candidates promising to take the money from the rich; having exhausted international largesse, they'll consume themselves, like a starving man living off his own body fat, until that too is gone.
Then the riots will start, and the breadlines.
Tough love. Let them go through the collapse.
What emerges in 10, 20 years may have learned it's lesson. They've been forestalling a depression on other people's money for too long.
This country is long overdue for some tough love and forced to live within it's means.
quote:Originally posted by skicat
quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
No matter how you slice it up, it is un-payable and we are losing credibility. Soon nobody will be daft enough to buy our paper and will conduct business without using the dollar. It is starting all ready so this isn't chicken little, the sky is falling alarmism.
Greece doesn't have a central bank like the US does, who is expanding the money supply. What is happening in Greece is a foreshadowing of what we can expect.
Greece is only the first domino to fall.
Granted our debt is worse than Greece, but we differ in the fact we have resources that are in high demand in the rest of the world. IE: Oil and minerals. We still have a means of defense.
Compare to Greece which has little or no resources and practically no defense. Socialist Greeks thought the money was better spent on pensions rather than defense. Echoes of Obama and the democrats
There are those outside Greece who think debtors have every right to take by force if necessary what is owed to them. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I guess you are unaware Greece has one of the largest militaries in Europe. they have more Leo2s than the Germans (Plus M1A1s, M60s etc) a modern navy and they are most dangerous when you think they are easy prey.
For those who think they are distracted, well Darius then Xerxes thought so and everyone in between to Mussolini (And the Greeks had to fight the elite Italian army not the ill equipped colonial troops the British fought in Libya)
It does not matter left or right in charge. Greeks can be at each others throats (and usually are) but become instant brothers to any outsiders
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
quote:Originally posted by chiefr
quote:Originally posted by skicat
quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Ready for the punchline?
We are in worse debt than the Greeks.
Yeah, but isn't most of the debt to ourselves?
No matter how you slice it up, it is un-payable and we are losing credibility. Soon nobody will be daft enough to buy our paper and will conduct business without using the dollar. It is starting all ready so this isn't chicken little, the sky is falling alarmism.
Greece doesn't have a central bank like the US does, who is expanding the money supply. What is happening in Greece is a foreshadowing of what we can expect.
Greece is only the first domino to fall.
Granted our debt is worse than Greece, but we differ in the fact we have resources that are in high demand in the rest of the world. IE: Oil and minerals. We still have a means of defense.
Compare to Greece which has little or no resources and practically no defense. Socialist Greeks thought the money was better spent on pensions rather than defense. Echoes of Obama and the democrats
There are those outside Greece who think debtors have every right to take by force if necessary what is owed to them. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I guess you are unaware Greece has one of the largest militaries in Europe. they have more Leo2s than the Germans (Plus M1A1s, M60s etc) a modern navy and they are most dangerous when you think they are easy prey.
For those who think they are distracted, well Darius then Xerxes thought so and everyone in between to Mussolini (And the Greeks had to fight the elite Italian army not the ill equipped colonial troops the British fought in Libya)
It does not matter left or right in charge. Greeks can be at each others throats (and usually are) but become instant brothers to any outsiders
Unfortunately for the Greeks, I don't think their military or police will be of any help when the banks give the depositors a 30% haircut.
When results of Greece's referendum came in, Wall Street banks were nearly unanimous in saying that the most likely scenario for Greece was an exit, or "Grexit," from the euro.
According to Evans-Pritchard's report, Tsipras rejected a "triple plan" devised ahead of the referendum that aimed to avoid a Grexit by firing the Bank of Greece governor, seizing all cash stowed away in various central bank branches, and issuing a parallel currency with IOUs denominated in euros.
Something like this plan, however, is what Tsipras may have to do anyway, according to Evans-Pritchard, as Greece has quickly run out of options.
We used to invest and risk our money in companies. states, cities and countries. If the succeeded we made money, if they failed we lost money and investors lost money when Greece went belly up those other times.
Today we live in the care free world where everyone makes money gets free stuff and are entitled so like the 2008 not allow them to fail mentality Greece must be forced not to default because that upsets the new world order and we don't want to do that now do we?
Greece needs to screw over those who rolled the dice and came up snake eyes cause the combinations can't always be six or seven.
We dug a deep hole bailing out insurance, mortgage companies, banks and GM to name a few and that weight will drown us one day when the natural solution is default, write off the loss and if you get tempted by Greek bonds in 20 years its on you but noooooooooo we live in utopia where no one losses money.
Fredrick the Great once said: "He who defends everything defends nothing."
Perhaps today he would say: "He who guarantees every investments dooms every investment"
That will be the eventual end game
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck