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Accidental shooting at Illinois gun show

pd1haydenpd1hayden Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
edited February 2011 in General Discussion
I was at the ECA (Egyptian Collectors Association) gun show in Bloomington, IL on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011. About two hours into the show a loud shot rang out--a gun had been fired, right in the middle of the crowd. Wow--scary! According to the news, someone was looking at a Mini-14 (.223), and was placing it back on the table when it discharged. The round went through a wooden post, through one person, and also hit another. As of the evening news, one of those hit was in critical condition, but both were still alive.

MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS A CRITICAL REMINDER TO ALWAYS CHECK EVERY GUN EVERY TIME YOU PICK IT UP AS TO WHETHER IT IS LOADED!!!

This was pretty frightening, and put a serious damper on the show. Quite a number of attendees left immediately, but the show went on. An investigation as to how or why the gun was loaded will take place.
The anti-gunners will no doubt try to use this in support of their position, but won't try to stop people from driving if there ever happens to be a deadly accident! (Or keep doctors from performing surgeries if a patient ever happens to die........)

BE SAFE--CHECK YOUR GUNS ALWAYS. WE NEED YOU ALIVE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE! BLESSINGS, PAUL
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Comments

  • hk-91hk-91 Member Posts: 10,050
    edited November -1
    scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gunshows shut down.
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 17,018 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hk-91
    scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gunshows shut down.


    Thats my opinion also,,[B)][|)]
  • coltpaxcoltpax Member Posts: 7,516 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mm8nambu
    quote:Originally posted by hk-91
    scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gunshows shut down.


    Thats my opinion also,,[B)][|)]


    sounds plausible
  • swampgutswampgut Member Posts: 5,555
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't doubt that but it's also why you always check any weapon you handle to see whether or not it's loaded.

    No amount of sabotage will ever win out if you do your part.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone have a news clip on it?? 2 hours into the show would put it at around what 11:00 AM. It should be in the news somewhere.
  • coltpaxcoltpax Member Posts: 7,516 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by swampgut
    I wouldn't doubt that but it's also why you always check any weapon you handle to see whether or not it's loaded.

    No amount of sabotage will ever win out if you do your part.


    Got that right
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At the Gun Shows in my area all the Dealer rifles have their actions zip tied shut. Which made me wonder if I am serious about an older file how do I check the action before buying it? unless the dealer has the flexibility to cut it off while I check it.

    If they catch a private party walking around with a weapon with out it ziptied they usually fix it or kick them out.
  • CA sucksCA sucks Member Posts: 4,310
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by swampgut
    I wouldn't doubt that but it's also why you always check any weapon you handle to see whether or not it's loaded.

    No amount of sabotage will ever win out if you do your part.

    I would doubt it.

    It is plausible, and I would not dismiss the possibility out of hand.

    But that doesn't mean I will accept it as the explanation without evidence.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true though.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,052 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i don,t understand why any one would dry fire any gun that was not their own, besides not checking the chamber to make sure it was empty. another case where if the gun was not pointed in any ones direction when the trigger was pulled, no one would have been shot. eastbank.
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hk-91
    scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gun shows shut down.

    In the gun-loving state of Illinois? Now, who would do that?
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    Every gun show I'm been to for a good ten years now all guns carried into a show by buyers had the actions zip-tied. But guns brought in by dealers did not always have that. Some yes, some no, some cable and key-locked. Varies a lot.

    Dealers will cut zip ties to show you a gun and then re-secure them after. Seen that many times.

    For me it goes back to my Arizona Hunter Safety Course when I was a kid about forty years ago. Does not matter what you think you know, from a safe handling point of view all guns are either loaded and ready to fire or they are disassembled and non-functional. Those are the two kinds of guns that exist, there are no others.

    Handle guns with that outlook in your head and you will remember to always point it away from people, remove the magazine and clear the action before doing anything else.
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The reason show promoters started zip tying actions is that anti's were coming in a slipping rounds in...I would think a Mini-14 would be tied with the bolt open....
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • txlawdogtxlawdog Member Posts: 10,039 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What was there a mini 14 doing in IL anyway?? I thought they could not have them.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eboydell
    Stupid Yankees!


    Ironic...coming from someone that lives below sea level. (now where is that "duhhhhhh" smiley?)
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,408 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The number gun shows in Illinois has dropped way off in the past several years. Looks like that trend will continue...
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
    What was there a mini 14 doing in IL anyway?? I thought they could not have them.

    There is no 'assault weapon ban' in Illinois, the only thing banned from ownership in IL are items requiring a tax stamp (except AOWs, that's the one thing requiring a stamp that IL politicians forgot to write into the Unlawful Use of Weapons statute).
  • MMOMEQ-55MMOMEQ-55 Member Posts: 13,134
    edited November -1
    "scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gunshows shut down."

    This is possible or it could have a dumbazzes vendor who didn't check his weapons. Always assume it is loaded and you never have this problem.
  • MossbergboogieMossbergboogie Member Posts: 12,211
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
    What was there a mini 14 doing in IL anyway?? I thought they could not have them.


    Really damn I have one in the closet. [;)]
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why was the action not zip tied open? Why did the dealer not secure the action before zip tieing? Why did the looker not check the chamber if the action was not secured? It is one thing to blame "them" though there is apparently no evidence there was a "them." Too many stupid things occured in this one and the responsibility must be laid at the feet of the dealer and the looker.
  • pd1haydenpd1hayden Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of these responses were expected, and rightly so.

    Some answers to a few questions through the pile:

    yes - we can have Mini-14's (I have a 30) in Illinois, with large mags.

    Absolutely, the looker should have checked -- what an unfortunate life lesson for him. I'll bet he never ever picks up another gun without checking for it being loaded!!!

    Gun locks and zip ties in the actions at Illinois shows--I'll bet that one could be coming, and probably should be the rule (we don't need more "laws") at these shows. We should police ourselves, to keep us safe as much as we possibly can.

    One of the news clips on TV said that this was the first shooting at a gun show in Illinois in 25 years. Another said (I believe) that it was the first at one of these ECA (Egyptian Collectors Association) shows in 10 years or so that they have been happening.
    At any rate, it is still a lot safer to go to a gun show than to drive on the roads or visit a doctor/hospital, but they don't bring out those statistics, do "they"?

    BE SAFE, AND ALWAYS CHECK EVERY GUN AS TO ITS STATUS, AND STILL TREAT IT AS IF IT IS LOADED.

    BLESSINGS, PAUL
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    1. Treat evey gun as if loaded

    2. Point muzzle in the safest direction. (dont point it an anything you dont want to shoot);

    3. Do not Load until you are ready to shoot.

    4. Keep Finger off the TRIGGER untill ready to shoot.

    [:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    how do you point a muzzle in a safe direction at a gun show, sitting flat on a table?[;)]
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    how do you point a muzzle in a safe direction at a gun show, sitting flat on a table?[;)]


    Same as any place else. You point the gun in the least dangerous direction you can, even it that is up in the air. You keep your fingers away from the trigger and safety (if any). Remove any magazine. Open the action and visually check the chamber. Keep the action open while you examine the gun.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,164 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    how do you point a muzzle in a safe direction at a gun show, sitting flat on a table?[;)]
    Yep, sometimes there is no safe direction.
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by coltpax
    quote:Originally posted by mm8nambu
    quote:Originally posted by hk-91
    scary part of this is that some anti gun bleen probley put the bullet into that gun just to try and get gunshows shut down.


    Thats my opinion also,,[B)][|)]


    sounds plausible


    Not only plausible ,but highly possible .
    It has happened before .
    One Anti was caught in Cali. a few years ago trying to load a pistol and place it on a table .
    We had one caught at an AGCA show trying to do the same thing .
    Watched the Police haul him off .
    Would that be attempted murder ?
    There is no question that some table holders are idiots .
    Also some lookers are too !
    Every weapon on the table needs to checked and re-checked often at a show .
  • matwormatwor Member Posts: 20,594
    edited November -1
    1) Don't point the muzzle at anything you don't want to destroy.

    2) Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

    Sad ordeal for sure. If everyone followed the two rules above there wouldn't be any call for zipties.
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    how do you point a muzzle in a safe direction at a gun show, sitting flat on a table?[;)]



    Can't be done !
    I have been present for 3 AD's at gun shows .
    I am still trying to figure out why no one was hit in a room of 3'000+ people .
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    The rule said the SAFEST not SAFE..Common sense must prevail and the word SAFEST is just that common sense..

    When at a Gun Show all my long guns are in upright racks, not lying down on a table, All my pistols are strapped and on a safety cable, or under glass in a display case. for you to look at one I have to hand it to you..[:0]
  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    I don't think that could happen at one of our gunshows. Someone would have to purposefully load and shoot a gun in one of our shows. There are no "accidents" unless someone broke the rules and packed a loaded gun into the show.
    We are required to zip tie the actions or hammers, remove all magazines and render the gun inop before placing it on the table for display.
    We all watch out for each other but security always walks the floor looking for violations.
    We are allowed to remove the zip ties for supervised demonstration or to view a bore but required to immediatly re-bind it while it is in the building. Even if the customer buys the gun.
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 32,049 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just keep thinking.....

    "Egyptian Collectors Association in Illinois"

    Whats up with that? Is there a real presence of Egyptians in Il? Is this where you can get a deal on a Galabia (dress-like shirt outfit) and fez hat?
    LOCUST FORK CURRENT AUCTIONS: https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=618902&PageSize=48 Listings added every Thursday! We do consignments, contact us at mckaygunsales@gmail.com
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    We have three inspectors at the doors to our gun shows. They strap all firearmes carried in during the show. A thorough inspection is made on all vendors prior to opening the doors.. In the 15 years I been doing our shows, not one firearm discharge..[8)]
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    I just keep thinking.....

    "Egyptian Collectors Association in Illinois"

    Whats up with that? Is there a real presence of Egyptians in Il? Is this where you can get a deal on a Galabia (dress-like shirt outfit) and fez hat?



    That makes sense. I was thinking Hakim and Rasheeds and Hellwans[:D]
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    I just keep thinking.....

    "Egyptian Collectors Association in Illinois"

    Whats up with that? Is there a real presence of Egyptians in Il?


    The mostly live in Cairo.


    Thank you, I'll be here all night [;)]
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Classic095
    We have three inspectors at the doors to our gun shows. They strap all fireares carried in during the show. A thorough inspection is made on all vendors prior to opening the doors.. In the 15 years I been doing our shows, not one firearm discharge..[8)]

    Same protocol at our shows. I have no problem with the checks and double checks at large public gun shows. Self policed should be the way it is.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    At the Gun Shows in my area all the Dealer rifles have their actions zip tied shut. Which made me wonder if I am serious about an older file how do I check the action before buying it? unless the dealer has the flexibility to cut it off while I check it.

    If they catch a private party walking around with a weapon with out it ziptied they usually fix it or kick them out.


    every show i work has different rules as to twhat needs to be strapped on the table. i will always cut a strap if you ask me too and re strap it when you're done looking.

    i also as a matter of habit check every gun to make sure its clear before i hand it to a customer, and check it again before i put it back on the table, and again before i hand it to the next guy and so on. i might end up checking the same gun a hundred times over a weekend and i dont consider a single second a waste.
  • Gunner9330Gunner9330 Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had just left the gun show when it happened, the mini-14 was loose on a vertical stand. The show was packed, with a constant line coming in from outside. Long story short, YOU ALWAYS check the chamber with the gun pointed in a safe direction before handling in a dangerous direction (which should never happen, there's always a ceiling to point at)! The show seemed to be overwhelmed with people having no knowledge on how to handle guns safely, or otherwise. People acted as though they were at a toy story ASSUMING the guns were safe when they grabbed them off the table to play dirty Harry.That is NOT the place for stupidity, and now the anti-gunners will have a field day. I even seen it reported on CNN this morning...
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    I just keep thinking.....

    "Egyptian Collectors Association in Illinois"

    Whats up with that? Is there a real presence of Egyptians in Il? Is this where you can get a deal on a Galabia (dress-like shirt outfit) and fez hat?



    [:I]

    The southern most part of Illinois is called Little Egypt. Here's a bit of history of the origin of that nick name.


    Origin of "Little Egypt" name
    Southern Illinois is also known as "Little Egypt".Some historians[who?] say the nickname "Egypt" arose in the 1830s, when poor harvests in the north of the state drove people to Southern Illinois to buy grain. Others say that the similarity of the land of the great Mississippi and Ohio River valleys were like that of Egypt?_s Nile delta. According to Hubbs, the nickname may date back to 1818, when a huge tract of land was purchased at the confluence of the rivers and its developers named it Cairo (pronounced /#712;k#603;#601;ro#650;/) Today, the town of Cairo still stands on the peninsula where the Ohio River joins the Mississippi.

    Other settlements in that area were also given names with Egyptian, Greek or Middle Eastern origins: The Southern Illinois University Salukis sports teams and towns such as Thebes, Dongola, Palestine, Lebanon, New Athens (pronounced /nju?? #712;e#618;??#601;nz/), Sparta, and Karnak show the influence of classical culture as towns were founded. (Greek names were also related to the contemporary national pride in the new republic of the early 19th century, and were given to towns throughout the Midwest.) Egyptian names were concentrated in towns of Little Egypt but also appeared in towns further south. For instance, about 100 miles (200 km) south of Cairo, along the Mississippi, lies Memphis, Tennessee, named after the Egyptian city on the Nile.
  • HellquestHellquest Member Posts: 74
    edited November -1
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 32,049 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    I just keep thinking.....

    "Egyptian Collectors Association in Illinois"

    Whats up with that? Is there a real presence of Egyptians in Il? Is this where you can get a deal on a Galabia (dress-like shirt outfit) and fez hat?



    [:I]

    The southern most part of Illinois is called Little Egypt. Here's a bit of history of the origin of that nick name.


    Origin of "Little Egypt" name
    Southern Illinois is also known as "Little Egypt".Some historians[who?] say the nickname "Egypt" arose in the 1830s, when poor harvests in the north of the state drove people to Southern Illinois to buy grain. Others say that the similarity of the land of the great Mississippi and Ohio River valleys were like that of Egypt?_s Nile delta. According to Hubbs, the nickname may date back to 1818, when a huge tract of land was purchased at the confluence of the rivers and its developers named it Cairo (pronounced /#712;k#603;#601;ro#650;/) Today, the town of Cairo still stands on the peninsula where the Ohio River joins the Mississippi.

    Other settlements in that area were also given names with Egyptian, Greek or Middle Eastern origins: The Southern Illinois University Salukis sports teams and towns such as Thebes, Dongola, Palestine, Lebanon, New Athens (pronounced /nju?? #712;e#618;??#601;nz/), Sparta, and Karnak show the influence of classical culture as towns were founded. (Greek names were also related to the contemporary national pride in the new republic of the early 19th century, and were given to towns throughout the Midwest.) Egyptian names were concentrated in towns of Little Egypt but also appeared in towns further south. For instance, about 100 miles (200 km) south of Cairo, along the Mississippi, lies Memphis, Tennessee, named after the Egyptian city on the Nile.



    Cool to know!
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