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Hydrogen Technology ? Welding & Cars

Maddi_1Maddi_1 Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
edited May 2006 in General Discussion
Received an email with a video attachment made by Fox News about a company that was manufacturing "special" hydrogen fueled welding machines.

His welder runs on WATER. He made a `dual fuel' 1994 Ford Escort using his gas generator.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Hydrogen_Technology_Applications_Inc#Official_Website

This article contains all the information including video, links to the manufactures home page etc.

Anyone familiar with this technology?
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Comments

  • lazeruslazerus Member Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Heard about this 24 years ago.
    The inventor was silenced.
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  • Maddi_1Maddi_1 Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lazerus
    Heard about this 24 years ago.
    The inventor was silenced.


    I don't think this particular process has been silenced. The basic process was discovered in the 1960's. Evidently someone has been using it for welding.

    I wondered if this man has improved to process or ??? They have a contract with the military to produce a dual fuel Hummer plus Ford has some kind of official connection. No, this has not been covered up.

    The information about this process can be found at:
    http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/
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  • lazeruslazerus Member Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No it hasent been covered up. but one man was harrassed into silence that ive heard of.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    To bad it takes more electrical energy to free the H2 from water, than the H2 produces by burning. While that wouldn't make it unusable on a stationary welding rig, on a motor vehicle it would be foolish to even try.

    Of course some idiots people will believe any rumor they hear.
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  • lazeruslazerus Member Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
    To bad it takes more electrical energy to free the H2 from water, than the H2 produces by burning. While that wouldn't make it unusable on a stationary welding rig, on a motor vehicle it would be foolish to even try.

    Of course some idiots people will believe any rumor they hear.

    On a 100 mile trip in his car he used four ounces of water. Pay attention and do some research before you criticize
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  • sig232sig232 Member Posts: 8,018
    edited November -1
    Myth Busters did a program on this generator last night and said "It don't work". A joke, won't generate nearly enough Hydrogen to power a car. Did produce a little hydrogen through electrical electrolysis, but a small amount and you have to have a source of electricity. Not practical. Another fantasy to get your money. There are many out there that claim you can get up to 300 mpg. They don't work! If there was a magic bullet someone would get the word out.
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  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lazerus:

    Check the 'Gasoline' thread over in Politics.
    This is a non-starter.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Heard about this 24 years ago.
    The inventor was silenced.

    You conspiracy nuts crack me up. Anyone with even a high school level knowledge of chemistry knows that the bond between hydrogen and oxygen is extremely strong and that real-world extraction of hydrogen from water requires more energy than you get back in the form of hydrogen.

    Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen is fairly easily accomplished. If you place a DC positive and a DC negative rod into a glass of water and apply current you will get some hyrdogen and some oxygen bubble off. I don't recommend trying this as hydrogen is extremely explosive.

    The problem is that breaking the hydrogen/oxygen bond takes a tremendous amount of energy. Due to innefficiencies in every known method of splitting hydrogen and oxygen, doing so results in far more energy expended than you recover by burning the hydrogren.

    While there are some catalytic methods that increase efficiency those methods have not been scalable to large scale commerical applications.

    Here is a resource to explain some of the process:
    http://witcombe.sbc.edu/water/chemistryelectrolysis.html

    Most commercial hydrogren is created from natural gas, so hydrogen at present does not reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
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  • ccddbb95448ccddbb95448 Member Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by admin
    quote:Heard about this 24 years ago.
    The inventor was silenced.

    You conspiracy nuts crack me up. Anyone with even a high school level knowledge of chemistry knows that the bond between hydrogen and oxygen is extremely strong and that real-world extraction of hydrogen from water requires more energy than you get back in the form of hydrogen.

    Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen is fairly easily accomplished. If you place a DC positive and a DC negative rod into a glass of water and apply current you will get some hyrdogen and some oxygen bubble off. I don't recommend trying this as hydrogen is extremely explosive.

    The problem is that breaking the hydrogen/oxygen bond takes a tremendous amount of energy. Due to innefficiencies in every known method of splitting hydrogen and oxygen, doing so results in far more energy expended than you recover by burning the hydrogren.

    While there are some catalytic methods that increase efficiency those methods have not been scalable to large scale commerical applications.

    Here is a resource to explain some of the process:
    http://witcombe.sbc.edu/water/chemistryelectrolysis.html

    Most commercial hydrogren is created from natural gas, so hydrogen at present does not reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.




    So strong it is broken with evaporation!!!!!!!!!!![:D]
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  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    quote:So strong it is broken with evaporation
    Are you seriously saying that you believe that water "evaporates" into hydrogen and oxygen? Our schools in this country really are in trouble.
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  • sig232sig232 Member Posts: 8,018
    edited November -1
    The only thing that might make sense is to use solar farms to provide the energy to release hydrogen at some future time. Its a cheap source of power, long term, and certain parts of the US might be able to do this cheaply.

    Maybe supplement the fossil fuels in the sunbelt areas. Possible?
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  • KSUmarksmanKSUmarksman Member Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lazerus
    quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
    To bad it takes more electrical energy to free the H2 from water, than the H2 produces by burning. While that wouldn't make it unusable on a stationary welding rig, on a motor vehicle it would be foolish to even try.

    Of course some idiots people will believe any rumor they hear.

    On a 100 mile trip in his car he used four ounces of water. Pay attention and do some research before you criticize


    BS! A freshman chemistry student can calculate how much hydrogen you get out of 4 ounces of water and then calculate how much energy is released by combusting that hydrogen with oxygen.

    One fluid ounce is 30ml of water, so 4 is 120. 120ml= 120grams H2O

    120g/18g. per mol = 6.67 moles of hydrogen gas

    At 285kJ/mole, 1900kJ of energy are released from combustion of the hydrogen.
    Using the basic relation of E=1/2Mv^2, this is sufficient energy to accelerate a 2000kg vehicle to 160 kilometers/hour.

    This means that provided zero energy loss from combustion to the wheels, and provided no air resistance, a large sedan would be accelerated to 100mph. Now we must take into account that the engine is not 100% efficient (no engine is), the transmission is not 100% efficient (no tranny is), and that the cars loses energy to air resistance and friction. The likelyhood of this vehicle traversing 100 miles on the hydrogen from 4 ounces of water is very low.
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  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    Too much technical info for most folks hanging around here KSU. Four onuces of water would hardly wet your thirst, much less operate a motor vehicle for 100 miles. The technology is currently not near the point of hydrogen derived from water being a viable motor fuel, although that could change. One of the biggest problems is in fuel cells and until a number of issues with their design are worked out it is not likely that you'll be pouring water into your car's fuel tank and driving away any time soon. There is nothing about this technology which cannot be made to work if enough time and money is made available for developement but it will take a very long period of very high crude oil prices (say $100 per barrel for five years) before people are going to be willing to sink the billions of R&D dollars needed to make all this work.
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  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    Hot water/Steam allows the Hydrogen and Oxygen to be released easier. There are many reports from Universities documenting it and reccomending Nuclear Reactors be used to create Hydrogen for a fuel source.

    Zero foreign oil used to create a fuel source for America.

    http://nuclear.inl.gov/docs/factsheets/high-temperature_electrolysis.pdf

    http://www.ne.doe.gov/hydrogen/HTE.pdf

    By the way here is the link to order the Hydrogen welder/plasma cutter:

    http://hytechapps.com/index.html

    $7,000 and doesn't require a air compressor like a plasma cutter needs or a bottle of gas...it creates it's own.
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  • Maddi_1Maddi_1 Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is the Fox News Video. 3 Meg.

    http--www.freeenergynews.com-Directory-BrownsGas-WaterFuel.wmv

    They have the workable welder being sold (as linked above). Looks pretty impressive to a layman.

    A good question, and answer, would be how much electricity is used to generate the gas? I'd rather pay the equivelent of 3 dollars a gallon to someone that wasn't using the profit to try and kill me.

    There is one other technology that does NOT use electricity.

    http://www.cleanwatts.com/technology/default.asp

    I noticed the stock was 15 cents a share,, meaning there must be more work needed [:D][:D]
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