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Interesting article, fence hunting and tresspassin
Big Sky Redneck
Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
http://outdoorchannel.com/article.aspx?id=18486&articletype=article&refID=103113FB
It's human nature to want to see what's over the next hill. For some reason, we all believe what's over there has got to be better than what's over here. This idea that "the grass is greener on the other side" has served some hunters well. It motivates wilderness hunters to press-on in the face of adversity, and if channeled appropriately, is the purest definition of perseverance. But the need to explore the other side of the fence can create problems, too.
Where wide-open vistas have been replaced with property lines and boundary fences, human nature collides with hunting regulations and ethics. Physically crossing a property line without permission is trespassing. It's easy to recognize and is punishable in every state. There are however, actions that may not be illegal, but are considered by some as unethical. Those situations define us as sportsmen, and often lead to conflict between hunters and landowners. Case in point: line hunters. They set up on or very near the boundary line of a property that they do not have permission to trespass on or hunt. Every state handles the situation differently, but universally, law enforcement agencies say it is an avoidable scenario. Todd Arbuckle is a deer hunter who recently dealt with the worst kind of line hunters first hand. After 45 days of chasing mature bucks with a bow on his large Indiana lease, Arbuckle was looking forward to evening the playing field when gun season started. Instead of deer, however, opening day was filled with visions of blaze orange dots on the boundary lines of his lease. In some places, hunters were actually lined up along the fence. None were standing on his side of the fence, so he didn't approach them. As long as they didn't cross the fence with their body or a bullet, their only crime was an ethical one. Later, after it was too late to confront the line hunters, he received some frustrating news. "We found out trespassers make their way onto the property next to ours, then maneuver to our fence line, since it's the longest distance from the road," he said. "The violators destroy in one day what takes us all year to build. They ruin the hunting on 50 percent of our lease because of their illegal movement along our fence line." Legal standing According to law enforcement in most states, Arbuckle did the right thing by ignoring the line hunters he thought had permission to be there. "There is no legal recourse until it can be proven someone trespassed over the line or shot across it," said Sergeant Jason Sherman, Illinois Department of Natural Resources Law Enforcement. "We won't get involved with calls about hunters sitting on the fence."
It's human nature to want to see what's over the next hill. For some reason, we all believe what's over there has got to be better than what's over here. This idea that "the grass is greener on the other side" has served some hunters well. It motivates wilderness hunters to press-on in the face of adversity, and if channeled appropriately, is the purest definition of perseverance. But the need to explore the other side of the fence can create problems, too.
Where wide-open vistas have been replaced with property lines and boundary fences, human nature collides with hunting regulations and ethics. Physically crossing a property line without permission is trespassing. It's easy to recognize and is punishable in every state. There are however, actions that may not be illegal, but are considered by some as unethical. Those situations define us as sportsmen, and often lead to conflict between hunters and landowners. Case in point: line hunters. They set up on or very near the boundary line of a property that they do not have permission to trespass on or hunt. Every state handles the situation differently, but universally, law enforcement agencies say it is an avoidable scenario. Todd Arbuckle is a deer hunter who recently dealt with the worst kind of line hunters first hand. After 45 days of chasing mature bucks with a bow on his large Indiana lease, Arbuckle was looking forward to evening the playing field when gun season started. Instead of deer, however, opening day was filled with visions of blaze orange dots on the boundary lines of his lease. In some places, hunters were actually lined up along the fence. None were standing on his side of the fence, so he didn't approach them. As long as they didn't cross the fence with their body or a bullet, their only crime was an ethical one. Later, after it was too late to confront the line hunters, he received some frustrating news. "We found out trespassers make their way onto the property next to ours, then maneuver to our fence line, since it's the longest distance from the road," he said. "The violators destroy in one day what takes us all year to build. They ruin the hunting on 50 percent of our lease because of their illegal movement along our fence line." Legal standing According to law enforcement in most states, Arbuckle did the right thing by ignoring the line hunters he thought had permission to be there. "There is no legal recourse until it can be proven someone trespassed over the line or shot across it," said Sergeant Jason Sherman, Illinois Department of Natural Resources Law Enforcement. "We won't get involved with calls about hunters sitting on the fence."
Comments
So if a person rents the hunting privileges of a piece of private property that abuts the National Forest, the renter now wants a buffer zone extended into the National Forest so that wherever he stands on the private side of the fence he will see no orange? Really??
Ray, if you read the entire article it's talking about ethics which many hunters don't have anymore. Here is an example of ignorant unethical hunters that I used to see every year while in PA.
On the back side of Black Log Mountain bordering an area call Licking Creek is a chunk of land owned by a hunting club from the eastern half of the state bordering state lands. What these guys do every year is the put on deer drives which is legal in PA. They would line up the shooters on their property and send the walkers to the top of the mountain on the state land. The walkers would push the deer from the side of the mountain onto their private land where the shooters was ready. In doing this they would walk right over any stands or hunters on the state land, they made tons of noise with yelling and smacking sticks off of trees in order to run the deer.
Now is this legal? Yep sure is, nothing can be done about it, all you can do is pack up your gear and leave when they come busting through, end of discussion.
Is it ethical? Is it ignorant? is it selfish? Yes I think so. This is the kind of ethics I think the article is pointing to. Like the example in the article, hunters lined up on the fence to catch any deer that may have crossed over.
Hunters today for the most part are driven by greed, there's that nasty little word again, GREED. Hunters will do whatever it takes to fill a tag and have no respect for the other hunters or property owners. They will do what it takes to fill their tags and if it means messing up someone else they will do it.
Moving to MT I thought I would get away from that mentality but have been informed that when the elk come to the lands next to ours that we need to lock the dogs up, wear orange when in the driveway and pray nobody shoots the house, the locals say it is going to get "Western" right here and the trespassing and hunter greed runs rampant, just like it did back east.
Pheasant hunting in South Dakota ... it is legal for a hunter who has shot a pheasant that lands on private land to enter that private land (without a firearm) and retrieve the downed pheasant.
I do not know if the same holds true for big game, ie deer or antelope.
In New York and Michigan hunters have the legal obligation to track their animals until the animals goes onto land they do not have permission to hunt ont(private land that they dont have permission) Land owners do not have allow hunters access to retreive game. Both states reccomend calling DNR/DEC in dispute.
Leasing ground in Indiana is becoming more and more popular. This practice will eventually destroy hunting here. Once hunting becomes about money it is over. The people with the money and the people receiving it will push to have laws passed to protect Their investment. Then they will push to have laws passed to maximize their investments. Then they will push to have laws passed to monopolize their investments. And on and on. Soon enough we will be like noblemen and peasants of Europe.
Terrain breaks and edges often draw game for several reasons. People hunting where the game travels/feeds is going to happen.
Leasing ground in Indiana is becoming more and more popular. This practice will eventually destroy hunting here. Once hunting becomes about money it is over. The people with the money and the people receiving it will push to have laws passed to protect Their investment. Then they will push to have laws passed to maximize their investments. Then they will push to have laws passed to monopolize their investments. And on and on. Soon enough we will be like noblemen and peasants of Europe.
Thats possible but theres still state and federal land and I dont see that getting bought off, and at least in NY the state keeps buyin land. And I dont see the type of money coming in from lease hunting to make the state sell of any land that would mean anything.
Private land is private land if you dont have permission you dont have it, if somebody wishes to charge somebody to enter their property for whatever purpose I dont see the problem with it.
quote:Originally posted by Ray B
So if a person rents the hunting privileges of a piece of private property that abuts the National Forest, the renter now wants a buffer zone extended into the National Forest so that wherever he stands on the private side of the fence he will see no orange? Really??
Ray, if you read the entire article it's talking about ethics which many hunters don't have anymore. Here is an example of ignorant unethical hunters that I used to see every year while in PA.
On the back side of Black Log Mountain bordering an area call Licking Creek is a chunk of land owned by a hunting club from the eastern half of the state bordering state lands. What these guys do every year is the put on deer drives which is legal in PA. They would line up the shooters on their property and send the walkers to the top of the mountain on the state land. The walkers would push the deer from the side of the mountain onto their private land where the shooters was ready. In doing this they would walk right over any stands or hunters on the state land, they made tons of noise with yelling and smacking sticks off of trees in order to run the deer.
Now is this legal? Yep sure is, nothing can be done about it, all you can do is pack up your gear and leave when they come busting through, end of discussion.
Is it ethical? Is it ignorant? is it selfish? Yes I think so. This is the kind of ethics I think the article is pointing to. Like the example in the article, hunters lined up on the fence to catch any deer that may have crossed over.
Hunters today for the most part are driven by greed, there's that nasty little word again, GREED. Hunters will do whatever it takes to fill a tag and have no respect for the other hunters or property owners. They will do what it takes to fill their tags and if it means messing up someone else they will do it.
Moving to MT I thought I would get away from that mentality but have been informed that when the elk come to the lands next to ours that we need to lock the dogs up, wear orange when in the driveway and pray nobody shoots the house, the locals say it is going to get "Western" right here and the trespassing and hunter greed runs rampant, just like it did back east.
I have. Story similar to yours, last year I was sitting on stand when neighbors from the next property came onto a property i was hunting ,trespassed and attempted to drive deer off the property I was hunting onto theirs it took everything I had not to confront them
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
Terrain breaks and edges often draw game for several reasons. People hunting where the game travels/feeds is going to happen.
Leasing ground in Indiana is becoming more and more popular. This practice will eventually destroy hunting here. Once hunting becomes about money it is over. The people with the money and the people receiving it will push to have laws passed to protect Their investment. Then they will push to have laws passed to maximize their investments. Then they will push to have laws passed to monopolize their investments. And on and on. Soon enough we will be like noblemen and peasants of Europe.
Thats possible but theres still state and federal land and I dont see that getting bought off, and at least in NY the state keeps buyin land. And I dont see the type of money coming in from lease hunting to make the state sell of any land that would mean anything.
Private land is private land if you dont have permission you dont have it, if somebody wishes to charge somebody to enter their property for whatever purpose I dont see the problem with it.
Agree land owners have the right to lease their land. We just need to be on the lookout for law changes that would, in the long term, adversely affect future generations hunting opportunities. I know sheer numbers will eventually dictate what has to be done.