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LEO's Thoughts on this?
EhlerDave
Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
What do you folks think of this mess? I know he was "off duty" but man if crap had gone wrong when he was at the hospital they sure would have expected him to respond.
http://www.newson6.com/story/28568413/oklahoma-police-officer-hospital-dispute-over-sidearm
http://www.newson6.com/story/28568413/oklahoma-police-officer-hospital-dispute-over-sidearm
Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
Comments
.......unless you refuse to bake a cake for a sodomite "wedding".
"At the same time, private businesses have the right to refuse service for any reason which is what happened to Collins."
.......unless you refuse to bake a cake for a sodomite "wedding".
True I'm still Confused on that one.
Welcome to life, butt head.
Not a hater.
Not a felon.
Never applied to an academy.
Brad Steele
I do not play well with hospitals that make their own rules as they go along.
I once told an entire ER they would be under arrest if a blood vial of evidence did not reappear. Low and be hold it did.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
They violated their own sign as stated.
I do not play well with hospitals that make their own rules as they go along.
I once told an entire ER they would be under arrest if a blood vial of evidence did not reappear. Low and be hold it did.
What would make you assume that the sign shown was from the hospital on question?
If I was, one would think it would have been brought up in the story.
Brad Steele
Everything worked out fine. One of the privileged class was told he had to follow the rules or leave, and he left. Apparently in a huff.
Welcome to life, butt head.
Not a hater.
Not a felon.
Never applied to an academy.
+1
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
They could have called local police to care for his weapon while he was treated, but they didn't. I have dealt with this kind of mentality before. They are not gonna win in the long run. And they didn't when they ran up against me.
As to the sign being relevant, with the state of journalism being what it is, it is a toss-up to whether it has anything to do with the story or not.
And Don we all know your anti police no matter the disclaimer you have.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
I have as much right to possess the means for defending myself as anyone else. The hospital should drop the policy entirely. That sign is not going to keep out a nut or criminal intent on shooting up the hospital. In the meantime, everyone should honor the right of the private property owner to determine what is on his property.
I'm with this guy...
If a city police officer is in his own state, he is within his jurisdiction. So "the leadership" decided he was out of his jurisdiction and arbitrarily decided to change state law. If he was lawfully carrying they do not have the right to decide state law.
They could have called local police to care for his weapon while he was treated, but they didn't. I have dealt with this kind of mentality before. They are not gonna win in the long run. And they didn't when they ran up against me.
As to the sign being relevant, with the state of journalism being what it is, it is a toss-up to whether it has anything to do with the story or not.
And Don we all know your anti police no matter the disclaimer you have.
Don't go throwing ignorant comments about, Alpine.
I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice. I am 100% against the militant nature of many officers that one sees and reads about.
I am 100% in support of probably 90% of the officers working today, and have voiced that support here and elsewhere when the occasion called for it. Case in point being the post by shilowar above.
Do not confuse lack of support for your wannabe privileged class mentality as anti- police.
For this, I thank you in advance if you can understand the difference.
Don
Brad Steele
They violated their own sign as stated.
I do not play well with hospitals that make their own rules as they go along.
I once told an entire ER they would be under arrest if a blood vial of evidence did not reappear. Low and be hold it did.
Did you have a court issued warrant for the blood?
They violated their own sign as stated.
If you are referring to the yellow sign that says law enforcement are exempt? That is not a sign on the facility in question. That was a sign showing what some other places do:
quote:"it's not uncommon for business to have a ban on firearms [here they show the yellow sign], but it usually doesn't apply to officers".
What we have here in the story is basically the LEO equivalent of "doctors make the worst patients"... this LEO thinks he should have the ultimate authority everywhere, and when he doesn't he doesn't like it. Boo hoo.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If it's on me, it's under control. Period.
My doctor's office is in a wing of a regional hospital building. I don't disarm to go to the doctor.
I have been hauled to the hospital in an ambulance three times. For the heart issue, I left my guns at home. For the two times I was on duty when I needed attention, I was incapacitated, and my brother officers took charge of my weapons.
I have been to the ER for various minor on-the-job injuries, not incapacitating, and have never given up my guns. Why should I?
One day, when I still carried a J-frame Smith IWB, I was at the doctor's office for some ailment. The nurse was new and didn't know me. She said I should remove my shirt and t-shirt. I did, and I laid my revolver on the counter. The nurse blanched. She said, "Why do you have that gun?" My answer, very honestly, "I might want to shoot somebody." She left quickly, and when my doc came in, he was laughing.
Last time I went in, I didn't have to remove my pistol, but the doc saw it when he was listening to my chest. He asked me what it is, and I told him. My doc is a gun guy, and he gets it.
The PD had an understanding with the mental health facilities we used from time to time. They don't like guns in the treatment areas. If they called us, we don't disarm. Period. If we need them for something, we use the lock box or leave in the car trunk.
One MH facility has a lot of juveniles, so it maintains a school on site. My ex-wife was the teacher. They had a pretty good cafeteria, so I would sometimes go there and have lunch with the wife. I never thought about their policy, and never considered that I might be violating it. One day the administrator stopped me and told me that I was welcome to eat lunch at his facility, but that I would have to leave my weapon behind. He considered the lunchroom a "treatment area," he said. I stopped having lunch there.
Welcome to my world.
If an officer was to be admitted and his uniform removed another ofcr would be assigned to secure his gear. That hospital policy is simply stupid. I suspect someone on the hospital administration is anti-gun.
The entire event sounds pretty stupid. So he was off duty? In plain clothes or in uniform? When I am off duty going to the Dr or Hospital for an appointment I leave my gun in the car. If I were in uniform and injured at work well then that would be a different matter, however arrangements could be made to secure the weapon. It sounds like to ego were banging into one another.
I knocked on the door and when he came out to the hallway I told him politely that several people had noticed his firearm and that while I assumed he was a police officer would he mind showing me his badge to ease the concern of the staff. He instantly lost his temper and yelled at me, but did show me his badge.
When I went down to tell Admin what happened our CEO was furious and called the police department. Needless to say that fellow was extremely nice when he came down to Admin to apologize for creating the disturbance. He also was not wearing the pistol openly anymore. I guess his chief laid into him. Had he been in uniform or worn the badge as openly as he wore the pistol their would never have been any question.
In this case the Hospital was seeing the man as a patient, he was not only off duty but outside his jurisdiction and may have had to disrobe to see the physician. I don't think asking him to secure his firearm while being treated was out of line. We have a safe in the ER for guns to be secured in at our Hospital.
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
If a city police officer is in his own state, he is within his jurisdiction. So "the leadership" decided he was out of his jurisdiction and arbitrarily decided to change state law. If he was lawfully carrying they do not have the right to decide state law.
They could have called local police to care for his weapon while he was treated, but they didn't. I have dealt with this kind of mentality before. They are not gonna win in the long run. And they didn't when they ran up against me.
As to the sign being relevant, with the state of journalism being what it is, it is a toss-up to whether it has anything to do with the story or not.
And Don we all know your anti police no matter the disclaimer you have.
Don't go throwing ignorant comments about, Alpine.
I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice. I am 100% against the militant nature of many officers that one sees and reads about.
I am 100% in support of probably 90% of the officers working today, and have voiced that support here and elsewhere when the occasion called for it. Case in point being the post by shilowar above.
Do not confuse lack of support for your wannabe privileged class mentality as anti- police.
For this, I thank you in advance if you can understand the difference.
Don
Ya. Right.
Blah blahblah.
BS each and every word.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
Many occupations come with a "privileged status," do they not?
I might know everything there is to know about plumbing or electrical work, and I might do those jobs for myself, but with out the "privileged status" of a license, I can't do it for others.
I also can't do surgery, while those who made a different "career choice" can, with their "privileged status."
One advantage to making the "career choice" to be a cop is being able to carry when and where others can't.
I can't repair your plumbing, or remove your appendix, or represent you in court, but I can carry a gun.
I made a career choice that carried with it certain advantages and limitations. So did you. So did everyone else.
Now, the social security office is a whole different story. They had a shooting, suicide, several years ago so they hired an armed rent a cop. This Nazi jumped my buttocks for having a lock blade knife on my person and all she saw was the pocket clip as the bulk of the knife was in my pocket. She scared me so bad that when I went out to put my knife in the truck I left my gun in there also. I really think she would have shot first and asked questions later.
quote:I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice.
Many occupations come with a "privileged status," do they not?
I might know everything there is to know about plumbing or electrical work, and I might do those jobs for myself, but with out the "privileged status" of a license, I can't do it for others.
I also can't do surgery, while those who made a different "career choice" can, with their "privileged status."
One advantage to making the "career choice" to be a cop is being able to carry when and where others can't.
I can't repair your plumbing, or remove your appendix, or represent you in court, but I can carry a gun.
I made a career choice that carried with it certain advantages and limitations. So did you. So did everyone else.
I must disagree, the right to self defense is not a privilege or advantage. It is a right. Further more that right in relations to firearms is specifically enumerated in the constitution. The private hospital has the right to set there own rules concerning there property...dumb as they may be.
quote:I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice.
Many occupations come with a "privileged status," do they not?
I might know everything there is to know about plumbing or electrical work, and I might do those jobs for myself, but with out the "privileged status" of a license, I can't do it for others.
I also can't do surgery, while those who made a different "career choice" can, with their "privileged status."
One advantage to making the "career choice" to be a cop is being able to carry when and where others can't.
I can't repair your plumbing, or remove your appendix, or represent you in court, but I can carry a gun.
I made a career choice that carried with it certain advantages and limitations. So did you. So did everyone else.
No problem with this, David. The problem only occurs when folk abuse that privilege or attempt to extend it where it does not exist. From your previous post, it sounds like you respect the wishes of property owners as we all should.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
If a city police officer is in his own state, he is within his jurisdiction. So "the leadership" decided he was out of his jurisdiction and arbitrarily decided to change state law. If he was lawfully carrying they do not have the right to decide state law.
They could have called local police to care for his weapon while he was treated, but they didn't. I have dealt with this kind of mentality before. They are not gonna win in the long run. And they didn't when they ran up against me.
As to the sign being relevant, with the state of journalism being what it is, it is a toss-up to whether it has anything to do with the story or not.
And Don we all know your anti police no matter the disclaimer you have.
Don't go throwing ignorant comments about, Alpine.
I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice. I am 100% against the militant nature of many officers that one sees and reads about.
I am 100% in support of probably 90% of the officers working today, and have voiced that support here and elsewhere when the occasion called for it. Case in point being the post by shilowar above.
Do not confuse lack of support for your wannabe privileged class mentality as anti- police.
For this, I thank you in advance if you can understand the difference.
Don
Ya. Right.
Blah blahblah.
BS each and every word.
Cute.
You really think I would take the time to lie to you?
Your privilege obviously extends to self importance and arrogance.
Good qualities for your line of work.
Brad Steele
We had a lady having a baby at the Hospital once and her husband was a police officer. He was wearing his pistol openly on his civilian clothes and was coming and going to visit her. Some of the staff were concerned so Admin asked me to go check it out.
I knocked on the door and when he came out to the hallway I told him politely that several people had noticed his firearm and that while I assumed he was a police officer would he mind showing me his badge to ease the concern of the staff. He instantly lost his temper and yelled at me, but did show me his badge.
When I went down to tell Admin what happened our CEO was furious and called the police department. Needless to say that fellow was extremely nice when he came down to Admin to apologize for creating the disturbance. He also was not wearing the pistol openly anymore. I guess his chief laid into him. Had he been in uniform or worn the badge as openly as he wore the pistol their would never have been any question.
In this case the Hospital was seeing the man as a patient, he was not only off duty but outside his jurisdiction and may have had to disrobe to see the physician. I don't think asking him to secure his firearm while being treated was out of line. We have a safe in the ER for guns to be secured in at our Hospital.
It sounds like the matter was resolved appropriately. Some folks are jerks and occasionally need an attitude adjustment.
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
They violated their own sign as stated.
I do not play well with hospitals that make their own rules as they go along.
I once told an entire ER they would be under arrest if a blood vial of evidence did not reappear. Low and be hold it did.
Did you have a court issued warrant for the blood?
No. At that time under felony murder rules it was not required. It was actually to rule out the suspect was under the influence defense.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
If a city police officer is in his own state, he is within his jurisdiction. So "the leadership" decided he was out of his jurisdiction and arbitrarily decided to change state law. If he was lawfully carrying they do not have the right to decide state law.
They could have called local police to care for his weapon while he was treated, but they didn't. I have dealt with this kind of mentality before. They are not gonna win in the long run. And they didn't when they ran up against me.
As to the sign being relevant, with the state of journalism being what it is, it is a toss-up to whether it has anything to do with the story or not.
And Don we all know your anti police no matter the disclaimer you have.
Don't go throwing ignorant comments about, Alpine.
I am 100% against the privileged status that certain members of the LEO community seem to desire simply because of a career choice. I am 100% against the militant nature of many officers that one sees and reads about.
I am 100% in support of probably 90% of the officers working today, and have voiced that support here and elsewhere when the occasion called for it. Case in point being the post by shilowar above.
Do not confuse lack of support for your wannabe privileged class mentality as anti- police.
For this, I thank you in advance if you can understand the difference.
Don
Ya. Right.
Blah blahblah.
BS each and every word.
Cute.
You really think I would take the time to lie to you?
Your privilege obviously extends to self importance and arrogance.
Good qualities for your line of work.
I'm so glad to see you are a qualified expert on my career (been retired for over 20 years) and on law enforcement in general. It is so reassuring to have qualified experts, like you, giving all of us that worked in the profession, your opinion on the whole law enforcement experience.
Keep up the good work!
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
We had a lady having a baby at the Hospital once and her husband was a police officer. He was wearing his pistol openly on his civilian clothes and was coming and going to visit her. Some of the staff were concerned so Admin asked me to go check it out.
I knocked on the door and when he came out to the hallway I told him politely that several people had noticed his firearm and that while I assumed he was a police officer would he mind showing me his badge to ease the concern of the staff. He instantly lost his temper and yelled at me, but did show me his badge.
When I went down to tell Admin what happened our CEO was furious and called the police department. Needless to say that fellow was extremely nice when he came down to Admin to apologize for creating the disturbance. He also was not wearing the pistol openly anymore. I guess his chief laid into him. Had he been in uniform or worn the badge as openly as he wore the pistol their would never have been any question.
In this case the Hospital was seeing the man as a patient, he was not only off duty but outside his jurisdiction and may have had to disrobe to see the physician. I don't think asking him to secure his firearm while being treated was out of line. We have a safe in the ER for guns to be secured in at our Hospital.
It sounds like the matter was resolved appropriately. Some folks are jerks and occasionally need an attitude adjustment.
That's the way I see it, Nothing wrong with the way the hospital was doing.