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Ammo

A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
edited October 2012 in General Discussion
does anyone know of a site on the internet that sells ammo?

Comments

  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I got a line on some 7.62x51. Shoot me an email and I will get you in touch.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Second Amendment Shooting and Sport
    53 minutes ago
    I have received calls from 2 distributors today telling me that shortages are now occurring and even the manufacturers are running short due to the spike in demand. I would never create panic in an attempt to make a sale, however, the shortages and allocations are already appearing so if you need to make your purchases I would do it now before it really gets bad.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Tagged along with the rest of the family that went to wally world today.

    Bought up all of their 22 ammo except for 2 boxes of thunderbolt. They are about out of everything except 12, 20 and 28 gauge shotgun shells and a few rifle in 30-30 and the high dollar 223 stuff.

    Get it before that 500% tax hits.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I was in local W/W Thursday night about 9:45 as they were unloading truck. They brought out a shopping cart full of ammo. I got a case of 223, a few boxes of 9mm. Saw a case of 40, case of 22LR and 5 boxes of mixed cal--45, 223, 9mm, 30-30, 7.62 etc. Few cases of shotgun ammo. No mention then of not being able to reorder.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Buddy came by and asked if I was interested in some military ammo. He said it was hollow point and he wanted to use soft point and he wasn't sure what caliber it was either.

    Turns out Lake City Match 7.62 from '85.

    $50.00 got me 567 rounds.

    Told him I'll take all of that he can find at that price.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Not sure where everyone is located, but I just came home from Academy in Corpus Christi, Tx and they have plenty of ammo. They took the 2 box restriction off the 223 and 45 ammo. They are no longer kept at the customer service counter. They have all kinds of 223 from $9.99 per box ( xm 193 ) to over $20.00. However, the 22 ammo supply is still restricted.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Does anyone know anything about this place called Target sports usa?(www.targetsportsusa.com)
    They sale Ammo cheap but their website looks funny and when I was checking them out I went and made an account with them but I seem to cant get in contact with them and i get blank emails from them. Im not going to buy anything or put im card info on there untill i fine out more about them. like if their a real store.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I did a inventory of my ammo today,I wanted to see whats left. here are the pics. I hope you enjoy the pics. I now need guns for all this ammo.

    45acp- 122 rds of 230 gr reloads FMJ
    9mm- 20 rds of Winchester PDX1 bonded Hollowpionts 147 gr
    50 ros of fmj lellier & Bellot
    Shoutgun 10 rds of Winchester Magnum 00 buckshot 12 gauge
    250 rds of federal target load 12 gauge
    308- 50 rounds of Magtech 150 gr FMJ
    22LR- 500 rd brick of winchester wildcat 22
    AR15- 183 round of ammo that I forgot the name of
    200 rd 5.56 green battlepack
    700 rds of M193 55gr FMJ
    400 rds of wolf 62 grain FMJ
    Waiting to be reloaded 1k of 55 gr 223 FMJ
    1k of 62 grain 223 FMJ
    1k of 45 acp 230 grain FMJ


    CoolPix113-1.jpg

    CoolPix114-1.jpg

    CoolPix115-1.jpg

    CoolPix116-1.jpg

    dont know what this is this is the green battle pack.
    CoolPix117-1.jpg

    here is what protects all of this while we are not home.
    IMAG0391.jpg
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I am glad to see a lot of "0" bids on the outrageous ammo pricing. Maybe things will start settling down in a few months.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I went plinking the other day and the 9mm EAA Witness did not like the WOLF ammo. Jambed twice a clip.

    I bought the stuff cheaper than dirt. It is the kind with the black/gray casings.

    Is it the ammo or something up with the gun?
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    whats the difference between standard 9mm and the 9x18 makarov??? Are either more powerfull or are they virtually the same??

    Thanks

    Larry
    runroom_x.gif
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Any body got a gun that shoots 38 caliber rim fire?.. I got about a half box of the old stuff made with the copper caseings..
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Just bought some PMC 223 at Big 5, $5 a box of 20.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    A few weeks ago I made a posting as to what I thought and have confirmed is going on behind the scenes with ammo. I received several reply's that were just a wee bit over the top. If you have doubt's about my statement of manipulation for the sake of price gouging just go to Natchez Shooters Supply and you will see that the prices as I stated have doubled and even tripled for the very same ammo that there are warehouse's full of. Welcome to the screwing of the shooting public.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Does anybody know where to buy match .308 ammo cheap.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Has anyone used CCI ammo,if so is it any good.
    Thanks guys.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I finally got some ammo at Wally world. I've been going 3 or 4 times a week, and got lucky this am. 3x 100 round boxes of Win. 165 gr. for my 40 cal Glock. Just shy of 37.00 a box.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    About a month ago I made a couple of postings about collusion & coercion on the lack of ammo issue. I had quite a few old timers here make the comment that no, it is just supply and demand. Well welcome to the new real world, was just contacted by three major suppliers I have bought from for years that just hasn't had any ammo available. Voila!! all of a sudden they seem to have ammo back in stock that I have bought for years. Only one big difference, the price has more than doubled in the past six months when any type of ammo was available. This is exactly what the Government and big oil did a few years ago when people had to wait in line to get gasoline, a completely manufactured shortage to manipulate price control. HELLO
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Anyone used Wolf ammo before.Got a flyer thru and it is very cheap.Is it any good.
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    Just went to get some .223 or 5.56mm. First, last time I bought Rem. .223 it was $7 per box of 20, it is $10 today for 45gr and $17 for 55gr. Second, I took the last box of 45gr. I mean !!! ONE box. Going to check 2 other walmarts in a bit. Took last 8 boxes from the little gun store around the corner too. It's insane!
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    ive got a buddy looking for 7.62x39 ammo. anyone have any websites with some good deals to share?
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I enjoy target shootig about 2 times a week, one problem the winchester target loads I use make my guns look like I drug them through a sulfer mine. Does any body know of some good target ammo that wont hurt my wallet / or performance that will keep my firearms cleaner?
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I went the Cabela's a couple days ago and noticed they had atleast 2 brands of each caliber and many boxes, but the local walmart has maybe a box of Federal in some calibers and a few boxes of Remington shotgun ammo. It doesn't seem like there is a shortage in Wheeling WV. [:D]
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    I have been looking for ammo for my AR, 45, and 9mm I have read the looking for ammo prices threads and all the prices are the same. I am looking for 1k of each and I cant remember where I bought it the last time. I also have a question, is it posible to get 3k or ,aybe more for around 700 bucks shipped?
  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,237 ******
    edited November -1
    "Military" hollow point?
  • USN_AirdaleUSN_Airdale Member Posts: 2,987
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
    "Military" hollow point?


    YES !! ......, quote:Lake City Match 7.62 from '85.
  • MBKMBK Member Posts: 2,918 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wouldn't hollow point be a violation of the Geneva Convention? Maybe they are reloads.
  • e8gme8gm Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is "Match" ammo. I've shot 1000's of rounds of Lake City. It's issued at military matches so all competitors shoot the same ammo.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NM bullets are not actually hollow point, even though they are described as BTHP (Boat tail Hollow Point) they are actually more like "open tip". These bullets do not have an exposed core will not expand. I am not anything like an expert in ballistics but the reasoning behind the open tip has to do with the actual procedure used to make the bullet jacket and not with offering expansion.
  • CheechakoCheechako Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Back when the M852 Match came out (168 grain SMK) the question of the hollow point bullets came up. The JAG wrote a couple of opinions on it which basically said that the bullet was not a Hollow Point but and Open Tip, a C.Y.A. term that he coined hisself. Since then, that is how the military describes it, and justifies it for combat use. Many field commanders do not agree and won't let their troops use the M852 or the newer M118 LR because it's their guys who's butt is on the line.

    It's interesting that Sierra still calls them Hollow Point.

    The USA is not a party to the Hague Declaration (not the Geneva Conventions) but we did agree to abide by it. Regardless, the whole issue has become uncertain because the International Conventions were written based on civilized warfare between nations, whereas today it's between nations and terrorists. LEOs routinely use hollow point ammunition and it doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

    Ray
  • A J ChristA J Christ Member Posts: 7,534
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    NM bullets are not actually hollow point, even though they are described as BTHP (Boat tail Hollow Point) they are actually more like "open tip". These bullets do not have an exposed core will not expand. I am not anything like an expert in ballistics but the reasoning behind the open tip has to do with the actual procedure used to make the bullet jacket and not with offering expansion.


    Good description.
  • CheechakoCheechako Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    MC

    You must be a lawyer. ;-)

    Hollow point bullets are made the exact same way as the so-called open tip. I know that the SMK hollow points (and others of the same design) are not intended to expand but the fact is that they often do. Many guys use SMKs and VLDs for hunting. OTOH, many of the hollow points that are designed to expand, often do not because of a variety of factors including velocity and what they hit. Even a FMJ can, and often does, inflict more damage than a soft point, hollow point, and open tip.

    I still think the "open tips" are about 90% C.Y.A.

    JMHO

    Ray
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,891 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lake City is owned by ATK. They have a defense division & a commercial division. They own the Federal Premium & CCI brands. Same production facility, just different contracts. They make whatever you are willing to pay for.

    Neal
  • CheechakoCheechako Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Lake City is owned by ATK. They have a defense division & a commercial division. They own the Federal Premium & CCI brands. Same production facility, just different contracts. They make whatever you are willing to pay for.

    Neal

    Lake City AAP is Government owned. It is operated by ATK. They manufacture the military ammunition. Most of the Federal is manufactured in Anoka.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    NM bullets are not actually hollow point, even though they are described as BTHP (Boat tail Hollow Point) they are actually more like "open tip". These bullets do not have an exposed core will not expand. I am not anything like an expert in ballistics but the reasoning behind the open tip has to do with the actual procedure used to make the bullet jacket and not with offering expansion.


    Remember reading about this and it has something to do with stabilizing the bullet without affecting its speed.

    Here is something I found.

    quote:Military evaluation of the MatchKing (designated M852) proved its superiority over the 173-grain M118 FMJ projectile that preceded it. Army tests noted a 36% increase in accuracy with the MatchKing at 300 meters and a 32% accuracy increase at 600 meters. Marine Corps tests produced similar accuracy figures. The National Guard determined that the M852 provided better bullet groups at 200 and 600 meters than the M118 under all conditions.

    Confusion continued within military circles. In 1985 the AMU sought assistance from Colonel Martin L. Fackler, Medical Corps, U.S. Army, an experienced combat surgeon and chief of the Army's wound ballistics laboratory at Letterman Army Institute of Research. Dr. Fackler's tests - firing the M852 into ordnance gelatin (20x25x50 centimeter blocks of a 10% weight concentration shot at four degrees centigrade calibrated to reproduce the crush and stretch seen in living animal tissue, a protocol developed by Dr. Fackler widely accepted today) - prompted him to suggest that the MatchKing's terminal ballistics would be improved by expanding the aperture because M852 terminal ballistics were like those of 7.62mm FMJ M80 Ball. Dr. Fackler's suggestion was not accepted. But his test proved the M852 did not "expand or open easily" as proscribed by the 1899 Hague Convention. Confusion continued. In the late 1980s Naval Weapons Support Center Crane procured and tested 7.62 and .300 Winchester Magnum OTM ammunition with specially manufactured polished closed tips for possible sniper training and combat use, based on the belief that the OTM was prohibited for combat use because of its "hollow point." Although tests results were positive, Crane officials expressed concern that the projectile might violate the Hague Declaration because of bullet break up at close range, notwithstanding the fact that fragmentation of the polished closed tip M852 was no greater than U.S. military FMJ M80 Ball, and appreciably less than M80 Ball projectiles used by some NATO militaries.

    Individuals judging the MatchKing solely on its appearance failed to consider the foundation law of war principle of distinction. It obligates a government and its military to develop and apply force against an enemy military in a manner that limits risk of injury to innocent civilians. A well-trained military sniper equipped with a contemporary sniper rifle, including its optics, using the most accurate ammunition, is the epitome of distinction. A civilian law enforcement agency using something less than the most accurate sniper ammunition could face potential liability were an innocent civilian killed or injured by a police sniper's shot during a hostage situation, as plaintiff's attorneys would argue that using less-accurate ammunition was negligent when ammunition with significantly greater accuracy was available. This rigid standard does not exist in a combat environment. Nonetheless an important legal obligation was neglected by those who hesitated in requesting approval for combat use of the MatchKing, particularly given the significant increase in accuracy it manifested over the M118.

    Caution regarding MatchKing projectile fragmentation was unwarranted. Twentieth Century terminal ballistics history established that FMJ military rifle projectiles sometimes fragment in soft tissue at distances up to 250 meters, dependent upon velocity, angle of projectile yaw at impact, and similar factors. Governments have acknowledged and accepted this phenomenon in international conferences over the past four decades, declining to extend the 1899 Hague Declaration's prohibition beyond bullets designed to "expand or open easily" at every distance.

    Hesitation in requesting authorization for M852 combat use faded in 1990 in the lead-up to Operation DESERT STORM, the U.S.-led Coalition effort to liberate Kuwait following Iraq's invasion. The request for legal review was answered in the affirmative the same day. The logistics system was not as responsive. M852 use in DESERT STORM cannot be confirmed.




    The .300 Winchester Magnum 190-grain Sierra MatchKing (MK 248 MOD 0) was adopted by the Navy in 1993. In 1993 the Marine Corps identified its expectations for 7.62x51mm accuracy. U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command, Armaments Research, Development and Engineering Center, in conjunction with Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, requested Sierra Bullets to design and build prototype projectiles to meet Marine Corps performance objectives. The M852 was succeeded in 1997 by the 7.62mm Special Ball Long Range M118LR with 175-grain Sierra MatchKing. The 175-grain Sierra MatchKing exceeded Marine Corps requirements. When shooters properly accounted for environmental factors, the 175-grain Sierra MatchKing loaded as the Federal Premium Gold Medal Match reliably struck targets at one mile.

    The 5.56mm 77-grain Sierra MatchKing MK 262 MOD 0/1 (DODIC AA53) was fielded in 2000. Navy (Crane) product improvement programs led to the 7.62 MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range (DODIC AB39), continuing to employ the 175-grain Sierra MatchKing, and the 220-grain Sierra MatchKing .300 Winchester Magnum Match MK 248 MOD 1 (DODIC AB43) in 2008. In each case wound ballistics tests based upon Dr. Fackler's protocol, today an integral part of the legal review of new military small arms ammunition, reconfirmed Dr. Fackler's 1985 conclusion that the terminal ballistics of OTM projectiles are similar to those of FMJ Ball, that is, they do not "expand or open easily" in soft tissue.

    Experts in The Netherlands and Switzerland further confirmed the legality of OTM ammunition for military sniper use. In 2001, a Swiss ballistics expert at the Swiss Low Noise Ballistics Facility described the OTM as a "hollow point that doesn't perform like a hollow point" with respect to its terminal ballistics. Today OTM ammunition is offered by a number of manufacturers for law enforcement and military use and has been adopted and employed by other militaries in the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts. OTM fielding in other calibers, such as .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Lapua Magnum are under consideration.

    Misunderstanding through ignorance persists. In 2006 a U.S. Army sniper approached his ammunition supply point in Iraq to request a re-supply of the M118LR. The civilian contractor took the ammunition out of its storage space, looked at the marking on the box stating "NOT FOR COMBAT USE" and refused to issue the ammunition to the sniper, instead instructing him to down load less-accurate linked M80 ball for use in his sniper rifle. The sniper turned to an Army judge advocate (JAG) for assistance. The JAG agreed with the ASP contractor. When provided a copy of the 1997 legal review of the M1118LR containing a detailed explanation as to its legality and rationale for approving its combat use, the JAG questioned the legal review's value because it was "nine years old." Legal reviews of weapons and ammunition do not have a "shelf life," but are "forever" documents. The situation ultimately was resolved in the sniper's favor, but not before it gained national media attention.

    This incident was avoidable. The "not for combat use" language was placed on OTM ammunition boxes in 1980 when it was approved for military competition use. When the M852 and M118LR were approved for combat use, no one told the contractor who made the boxes to remove the offending language. It was deleted when the current box was ordered (illustration, lower right corner). Confusion bred by ignorance continues in some circles. An ally recently (and quickly) rejected a private citizen's assertion that OTM ammunition violated the 1899 Hague Declaration.

    The adage "don't judge a book by its covers" is applicable with respect to the Sierra MatchKing and comparable open tip match projectiles. Sierra Bullets' characterization of the MatchKing as a "hollow point" likely exacerbated the practice of judging the projectile based solely on its appearance. Sierra Bullets has remedied this somewhat by referring to it as "open tip match" in its invoices. The problem was further aggravated by the failure of many to read and understand the text of the1899 Hague Declaration, and to incorrectly assume that any projectile with a "hollow point" would "expand or open easily" at all distances. The International Criminal Court limited the prohibition to military use of bullets designed to expand or open easily only when employed to "uselessly aggravate suffering or the wounding effect upon the target." In this respect the international community belatedly arrived at the point argued by Captain Crozier in 1899.
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