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AR-15 .223 vs Mil-Spec 5.56mm Chambers
Smitty500mag
Member Posts: 13,603 ✭✭✭✭
AR-15 .223 vs Mil-Spec 5.56mm Chambers? There is actually 3 different chambers.
Which ammo is your AR-15 actually chambered for? I E-mailed Windham Weaponry and asked them that question about my new AR-15 and they responded:
Hi Greg,
It is chambered in 5.56 NATO so you can safely fire either .223 or 5.56 ammo in your rifle.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Thank you,
Erik Winter
Windham Weaponry
Gunsmithing/Tech Support
Office: 207-893-2223 ext. 756
Below is an article on the subject.
http://blog.{elsewhere}/ar-15-223-mil-spec-5-56mm-chambers/
The auto censor won't let this link be posted.
By Jerry Kraus published on March 13, 2014 in Firearms
What is the biggest difference between AR-15 .223 and Mil-Spec 5.56mm chambers? Most people do not know; they say, "I think you can shoot both kinds of ammo through either one, right?"
Then, they buy an AR-15 and start to get more educated. Frequently, they later have regrets they did not get the AR with a chamber they wanted because they did not know what to ask.
We are going to cover the major options in AR-15 chambers, including Mil-Spec chambers and the benefits of each. I am going to limit this to .223 Rem. and 5.56mm chambers and will address ARs with other calibers, such as .308 (7.62x51 NATO), in the future.
There are three types of chambers in the M16/M4/AR-15/MSR family of rifles, but most people think there are only two.
The first is the Mil-Spec 5.56mm chamber, which is used in the M16 and M4.
The second is the .223 chamber, the most common chamber in AR-15 rifles, although you can get AR-15s with a 5.56mm chamber (why you would want that is very interesting and I go into that in detail below).
The third is a .223 Match chamber, which is used in AR-15s by serious competitive AR-15 shooters.
.223 Rem Chamber
First, let us cover the most common AR-15 chamber, the .223 Remington chamber, commonly called .223 Rem. or just .223. Most AR-15s also come with chrome-lined chambers and barrels. It does not make sense in the manufacturing process to only have the bore (barrel) or only the chamber chrome lined, so if you read a spec sheet that says an AR has a "chrome-lined barrel," you safely may assume the chamber is chrome lined as well.
.223 chambers are made to SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) specs, not Mil-Spec, so the chambers are slightly tighter and smaller than Mil-Spec 5.56 chambers. Normally, that is not a problem since the most plentiful ammo available to civilians is .223 and not 5.56mm. But many people buy ARs with .223 chambers because they do not know any better, and then they find out there are drawbacks to ARs with .223 chambers.
Drawback #1: The Myth of Using 5.56 mm Ammo in a .223
The first drawback to .223-chambered ARs is the myth that you can shoot 5.56mm Mil-Spec ammo through it. Manufacturers that print the two calibers on rifles and in rifle manuals synonymously further perpetuate that myth.
.223 Rem vs. 5.56mm Nato
From the outside, both cartridges look the same. However, looks are deceiving.
You can shoot 5.56 through your .223 chambered AR-15-but you may regret it.
Since 5.56mm Mil-Spec ammo is loaded hotter, it has higher chamber pressure. Built to SAAMI specs, not Mil-Spec, the .223 chamber is ever so slightly smaller than a 5.56 Mil-Spec chamber. So when you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber, the case cannot expand as much as it would in a 5.56 chamber.
Therefore, a couple of things happen with varying frequency. The most common is that you will blow primers; that means you will have the primer blow back into the receiver, which decreases reliability as it rattles around in your receiver or on top of your magazine.
You also will experience an increase in failures to eject the spent cases because the case has expanded so much from the hotter load in the smaller chamber, and you may not get the case out of the chamber without putting a rod down the barrel. Shooting Mil-Spec ammo through a .223 chamber also may crack your upper receiver; this is less common, but still happens, and is potentially dangerous to the shooter and nearby people.
So you can shoot 5.56 through a .223 chamber, but it is highly inadvisable.
Drawback #2: Heavy Bullets
The second big drawback to a .223 chamber is shooting heavier ammo-77 grains and above. This is the preferred bullet weight for national match shooters and snipers. The problem is that those rounds are slightly longer than lighter AR ammo, so the projectile is sticking slightly farther down the barrel when you chamber the round.
The problem becomes very obvious when you try to eject the heavier bullet-weight round from the chamber without firing it. This happens because the heavier projectile is slightly longer. On occasion, the rifling grooves may grab it when you try to eject it. The result is that you pull your charging handle back and the case comes off the bullet, spilling unspent powder on the receiver (and your magazine if you did not remove it first). As it ejects, you are left with a projectile in the barrel, and you will need a cleaning rod to knock it out. Then you will have a mess, and it is not fun-especially when you are on the firing line at Camp Perry competing for the national championships.
Match Chambers
This brings us to the .223 Match chamber. Most .223 Match chambers are not chrome lined. The biggest difference in .223 Match chambers is that the rifling does not begin as quickly, so you do not have the problems referenced above with the case coming off the projectile if you try to eject a live round from the chamber. This is the preferred chambering for serious competitive shooters who like to compete at the national level, such as at the NRA National High-Power Long Range matches and CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, each summer.
Mil-Spec Chambers
Then there are Mil-Spec 5.56mm chambers. These are always chrome lined in the M16/M4s for the military and typically are for their semi-auto AR-15 brothers. The 5.56mm Mil-Spec chamber is slightly larger than a .223 SAAMI spec chamber because the Mil-Spec ammo is loaded hotter and has higher chamber pressures.
Benefit #1: Use Both .223 and 5.56 Ammo
So the supreme benefit of 5.56 chambers is that you can shoot .223 ammo and 5.56 out of a 5.56 chamber without reliability or safety concerns. That gives you the flexibility to take advantage of the great military surplus ammo bargains when they are available.
The downside is that, at greater distances, some shooters think they will see a decrease in accuracy shooting .223 ammo though a 5.56 chamber because the chamber is ever so slightly larger.
I think that is arguable. I know what you are thinking: "How much decrease in accuracy?" and "At what distances does it make a difference?"
I believe that 95% of shooters will not see a measurable difference, except at extreme distances for which they may not have the training to shoot effectively anyway. Remember, when it comes to shooting, most of the time "It's the Indian, not the arrow." Remember, I am talking about .223 ammo through a 5.56 chamber only-not 5.56 through a 5.56 chamber.
Benefit #2: The 5.56mm Chamber Has a Slightly Longer Throat
The second benefit of a 5.56mm chamber is that it also has a slightly longer throat/free bore area. In simpler English, that means that there is more space between the projectile and the rifling. Remember when I explained what happens when you try to eject a live round when it is 77 grains or above from a .223 chamber (not a .223 Match chamber)? Well that does not happen with 5.56mm chambers because of the longer throat.
Benefit #3: Availability of Ammo
The third benefit of having a 5.56mm chamber on your AR is a little paranoid, but not unfounded, although I pray it never happens. Some of my prepper fans out there believe there may be martial law one day in America, which would include an attempted disarmament of Americans.5.56 NATO Ammunition
That is what Hitler did, so it is not unimaginable.
In any case, nobody can argue that, in an extended time under martial law, you might only be able to get ammo by stealing it off the back of a Humvee-if you do not get shot trying to in the first place. I would want an AR-15 with a 5.56mm chamber so you can shoot military ammo through it without added potential reliability problems, and remember, you will still be able to shoot .223 ammo as well.
There is a way to ream out a .223 chamber and make it 5.56mm. I have heard that it is easy, although I have never done it. You might be able to find the reamer, but if I wanted that, I would have it done by a reputable gunsmith.
What should I buy?
So now you may be thinking, "This is really confusing; just tell me what I should get."
So if I could only afford one AR, I would get one with a 5.56mm chamber.
I also would not trust the labeling on the spec sheet on the manufacturer's website or even in the owner's manual that any AR-15 is 5.56mm or .223/5.56mm. I have tested ARs lately that claim, in writing, .223/5.56mm on their website spec sheets and in the owner's manual that came with the AR. When I called the manufacturer and asked if the chamber is 5.56mm or is it .223, the manufacturer tech help person dismissively told me it is both.
I stuck to my guns (forgive the pun) and said, "It can't be both; either the chamber is SAAMI spec .223 Rem. or the chamber is Mil-Spec 5.56mm; which is it?"
Then, from one USA manufacturer, I received the response, "Well, it's a .223 chamber, but you can shoot both through it." Another USA manufacturer told me, "I can't put you through to a tech person, but you can email me, and I will forward your email."
I did email that customer-service person who could not answer my question, and I confirmed receipt of my email and that the rep forwarded it to the "appropriate person." That was more than a week ago as of the time I am writing this, and still I have had no response. I will not own or recommend any of their ARs for the foreseeable future.
Which ammo is your AR-15 actually chambered for? I E-mailed Windham Weaponry and asked them that question about my new AR-15 and they responded:
Hi Greg,
It is chambered in 5.56 NATO so you can safely fire either .223 or 5.56 ammo in your rifle.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Thank you,
Erik Winter
Windham Weaponry
Gunsmithing/Tech Support
Office: 207-893-2223 ext. 756
Below is an article on the subject.
http://blog.{elsewhere}/ar-15-223-mil-spec-5-56mm-chambers/
The auto censor won't let this link be posted.
By Jerry Kraus published on March 13, 2014 in Firearms
What is the biggest difference between AR-15 .223 and Mil-Spec 5.56mm chambers? Most people do not know; they say, "I think you can shoot both kinds of ammo through either one, right?"
Then, they buy an AR-15 and start to get more educated. Frequently, they later have regrets they did not get the AR with a chamber they wanted because they did not know what to ask.
We are going to cover the major options in AR-15 chambers, including Mil-Spec chambers and the benefits of each. I am going to limit this to .223 Rem. and 5.56mm chambers and will address ARs with other calibers, such as .308 (7.62x51 NATO), in the future.
There are three types of chambers in the M16/M4/AR-15/MSR family of rifles, but most people think there are only two.
The first is the Mil-Spec 5.56mm chamber, which is used in the M16 and M4.
The second is the .223 chamber, the most common chamber in AR-15 rifles, although you can get AR-15s with a 5.56mm chamber (why you would want that is very interesting and I go into that in detail below).
The third is a .223 Match chamber, which is used in AR-15s by serious competitive AR-15 shooters.
.223 Rem Chamber
First, let us cover the most common AR-15 chamber, the .223 Remington chamber, commonly called .223 Rem. or just .223. Most AR-15s also come with chrome-lined chambers and barrels. It does not make sense in the manufacturing process to only have the bore (barrel) or only the chamber chrome lined, so if you read a spec sheet that says an AR has a "chrome-lined barrel," you safely may assume the chamber is chrome lined as well.
.223 chambers are made to SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) specs, not Mil-Spec, so the chambers are slightly tighter and smaller than Mil-Spec 5.56 chambers. Normally, that is not a problem since the most plentiful ammo available to civilians is .223 and not 5.56mm. But many people buy ARs with .223 chambers because they do not know any better, and then they find out there are drawbacks to ARs with .223 chambers.
Drawback #1: The Myth of Using 5.56 mm Ammo in a .223
The first drawback to .223-chambered ARs is the myth that you can shoot 5.56mm Mil-Spec ammo through it. Manufacturers that print the two calibers on rifles and in rifle manuals synonymously further perpetuate that myth.
.223 Rem vs. 5.56mm Nato
From the outside, both cartridges look the same. However, looks are deceiving.
You can shoot 5.56 through your .223 chambered AR-15-but you may regret it.
Since 5.56mm Mil-Spec ammo is loaded hotter, it has higher chamber pressure. Built to SAAMI specs, not Mil-Spec, the .223 chamber is ever so slightly smaller than a 5.56 Mil-Spec chamber. So when you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber, the case cannot expand as much as it would in a 5.56 chamber.
Therefore, a couple of things happen with varying frequency. The most common is that you will blow primers; that means you will have the primer blow back into the receiver, which decreases reliability as it rattles around in your receiver or on top of your magazine.
You also will experience an increase in failures to eject the spent cases because the case has expanded so much from the hotter load in the smaller chamber, and you may not get the case out of the chamber without putting a rod down the barrel. Shooting Mil-Spec ammo through a .223 chamber also may crack your upper receiver; this is less common, but still happens, and is potentially dangerous to the shooter and nearby people.
So you can shoot 5.56 through a .223 chamber, but it is highly inadvisable.
Drawback #2: Heavy Bullets
The second big drawback to a .223 chamber is shooting heavier ammo-77 grains and above. This is the preferred bullet weight for national match shooters and snipers. The problem is that those rounds are slightly longer than lighter AR ammo, so the projectile is sticking slightly farther down the barrel when you chamber the round.
The problem becomes very obvious when you try to eject the heavier bullet-weight round from the chamber without firing it. This happens because the heavier projectile is slightly longer. On occasion, the rifling grooves may grab it when you try to eject it. The result is that you pull your charging handle back and the case comes off the bullet, spilling unspent powder on the receiver (and your magazine if you did not remove it first). As it ejects, you are left with a projectile in the barrel, and you will need a cleaning rod to knock it out. Then you will have a mess, and it is not fun-especially when you are on the firing line at Camp Perry competing for the national championships.
Match Chambers
This brings us to the .223 Match chamber. Most .223 Match chambers are not chrome lined. The biggest difference in .223 Match chambers is that the rifling does not begin as quickly, so you do not have the problems referenced above with the case coming off the projectile if you try to eject a live round from the chamber. This is the preferred chambering for serious competitive shooters who like to compete at the national level, such as at the NRA National High-Power Long Range matches and CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, each summer.
Mil-Spec Chambers
Then there are Mil-Spec 5.56mm chambers. These are always chrome lined in the M16/M4s for the military and typically are for their semi-auto AR-15 brothers. The 5.56mm Mil-Spec chamber is slightly larger than a .223 SAAMI spec chamber because the Mil-Spec ammo is loaded hotter and has higher chamber pressures.
Benefit #1: Use Both .223 and 5.56 Ammo
So the supreme benefit of 5.56 chambers is that you can shoot .223 ammo and 5.56 out of a 5.56 chamber without reliability or safety concerns. That gives you the flexibility to take advantage of the great military surplus ammo bargains when they are available.
The downside is that, at greater distances, some shooters think they will see a decrease in accuracy shooting .223 ammo though a 5.56 chamber because the chamber is ever so slightly larger.
I think that is arguable. I know what you are thinking: "How much decrease in accuracy?" and "At what distances does it make a difference?"
I believe that 95% of shooters will not see a measurable difference, except at extreme distances for which they may not have the training to shoot effectively anyway. Remember, when it comes to shooting, most of the time "It's the Indian, not the arrow." Remember, I am talking about .223 ammo through a 5.56 chamber only-not 5.56 through a 5.56 chamber.
Benefit #2: The 5.56mm Chamber Has a Slightly Longer Throat
The second benefit of a 5.56mm chamber is that it also has a slightly longer throat/free bore area. In simpler English, that means that there is more space between the projectile and the rifling. Remember when I explained what happens when you try to eject a live round when it is 77 grains or above from a .223 chamber (not a .223 Match chamber)? Well that does not happen with 5.56mm chambers because of the longer throat.
Benefit #3: Availability of Ammo
The third benefit of having a 5.56mm chamber on your AR is a little paranoid, but not unfounded, although I pray it never happens. Some of my prepper fans out there believe there may be martial law one day in America, which would include an attempted disarmament of Americans.5.56 NATO Ammunition
That is what Hitler did, so it is not unimaginable.
In any case, nobody can argue that, in an extended time under martial law, you might only be able to get ammo by stealing it off the back of a Humvee-if you do not get shot trying to in the first place. I would want an AR-15 with a 5.56mm chamber so you can shoot military ammo through it without added potential reliability problems, and remember, you will still be able to shoot .223 ammo as well.
There is a way to ream out a .223 chamber and make it 5.56mm. I have heard that it is easy, although I have never done it. You might be able to find the reamer, but if I wanted that, I would have it done by a reputable gunsmith.
What should I buy?
So now you may be thinking, "This is really confusing; just tell me what I should get."
So if I could only afford one AR, I would get one with a 5.56mm chamber.
I also would not trust the labeling on the spec sheet on the manufacturer's website or even in the owner's manual that any AR-15 is 5.56mm or .223/5.56mm. I have tested ARs lately that claim, in writing, .223/5.56mm on their website spec sheets and in the owner's manual that came with the AR. When I called the manufacturer and asked if the chamber is 5.56mm or is it .223, the manufacturer tech help person dismissively told me it is both.
I stuck to my guns (forgive the pun) and said, "It can't be both; either the chamber is SAAMI spec .223 Rem. or the chamber is Mil-Spec 5.56mm; which is it?"
Then, from one USA manufacturer, I received the response, "Well, it's a .223 chamber, but you can shoot both through it." Another USA manufacturer told me, "I can't put you through to a tech person, but you can email me, and I will forward your email."
I did email that customer-service person who could not answer my question, and I confirmed receipt of my email and that the rep forwarded it to the "appropriate person." That was more than a week ago as of the time I am writing this, and still I have had no response. I will not own or recommend any of their ARs for the foreseeable future.
Comments
The .223 Wylde is a proprietary rifle cartridge chamber with the external dimensions and lead angle as found in the military 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge and the 0.2240 inch freebore diameter as found in the civilian SAAMI .223 Remington cartridge.
This is a good video:
If any of these chambers are used in a semi-auto rifle platform such as the AR15 or the military counterpart, the chamber is always slightly oversize (diameters) so the cartridges will feed and extract at the rapidity of the operating system. Tight chambers do not allow a platform to function. This is also why we use small base dies to resize the cases after firing in a semi-auto chamber.
The primary difference between the 5.56 and the civilian .223 Rem. is the addition length in the leade area of the 5.56 chamber.
The primary differences between the Competition Match chambers is the throat angle and the leade length.
These are the 6 Competition Chambers that I am aware of. I list the URL so that all concerned may copy the material in their own way for their own files.
From http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm:
Chamber Freebore Lead Angle 80SMK OAL Comments
5.56
Target .0566 1 deg,
13 min 2.465 This was designed by a C. Hildebrandt at Savage. I believe it is used in the savage .223 rifles. I do not have this reamer, but it should work well for HP.
.223
JGS#514 .025 3 deg,
10 min 2.435 I believe this is used by Krieger and Mike Bykowski. I use it for slow twist varmint uppers but I think it is a little short, and too steep of a lead for HP.
.223
Wylde .0619 1 deg,
15 min 2.475 Designed by Bill Wylde. Shoots everything good, and has slightly generous body dimensions for reliability. Eats anything you put in it.
.223
Holliger .106 1 deg,
15 min 2.530 Designed for the 90 JLK. The longer throat allows a little more velocity.
5.56
CLE .025 1 deg,
30 min 2.450 Of course we all know Frank's rifles shoot just fine!
5.56
Bushmaster .0250 1 deg,
30 min 2.450-
2.475 Info from Bushmaster (thanks!). These are one of the best out-of-the box barrels, and handle up to 80 gr bullets no problemo.
Best.
quote:The second is the .223 chamber, the most common chamber in AR-15 rifles, although you can get AR-15s with a 5.56mm chamber (why you would want that is very interesting and I go into that in detail below).wha??? AR15 barrels are marked 5.56, never seen one marked .223
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=503967650
a few other companies make them too
quote:The second is the .223 chamber, the most common chamber in AR-15 rifles, although you can get AR-15s with a 5.56mm chamber (why you would want that is very interesting and I go into that in detail below).wha??? AR15 barrels are marked 5.56, never seen one marked .223
A lot of them are marked .223/556mm. My new one is marked that way and like I said I E-mailed Windham Weaponry, the manufacture, and questioned which one it was actually machined for and the tech. answered that it's chambered for the 556 NATO which can safely shoot the 556 or the .223.
The lower markings don't mean much.
Is your barrel not stamped 5.56 between the flash hider and the FSB/gas block?
The lower markings don't mean much.
Mine is marked WW 556 1/9 on the barrel. The lower is marked .223/556MM.
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Is your barrel not stamped 5.56 between the flash hider and the FSB/gas block?
The lower markings don't mean much.
Mine is marked WW 556 1/9 on the barrel. The lower is marked .223/556MM.
That was all you needed to know. A 5.56mm chamber with a 1 in 9 twist barrel. Lowers have zip to do with chamber dimensions.
I have a .223 Mini 14 & their web site says 5.56 is ok. I also have a .223 barrel for my Thompson Contender & everything I can find says that the lighter bullets are ok. The problem seems to be with longer & heavier bullets.