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Senator Craig

ZebraZebra Member Posts: 5,762
edited September 2007 in General Discussion

Comments

  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    IMO pretty unfair.
    Lets look at this rationally.
    1st: Craig is an outspoken opponent of gay marriage.
    2nd: He has been a KEY Pro-2nd Amendment voter on several anti-gun bills.
    Back to #1. Craig has been ACCUSED for being Gay. But by whom? Well, his gay opposition of course! And the reports of Gay activity ALWAYS come from "un-named" sources. IE: Possibly if not even probably FICTIONAL.
    Now lets look at what happened in the Airport Restroom.
    Ok, there's cop in an airport restroom known for Gay activity, LOOKING for gay "signs". GAY SIGNS?
    How many of you knew that putting your luggage (bags etc) in FRONT of you in a restroom stall was a Gay sign? My question is: Where THE HELL ELSE ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO PUT THEM? Restroom stalls aren't generally very roomy. And to the front is where the MOST room for such items IS! I've done this before and never knew it was a "gay sign".
    So we have a cop, charged and tuned for looking for "Gay Signs". How many other Gay Signs are there that us NON GAYS don't KNOW ABOUT and might INNOCENTLY make out of PRACTICALLITY?
    What if Craig unknowingly commtted one or more of these vague "Gay SIGNS" and aroused the cops suspicions. Shoudn't the cop have played along long enough to get AT LEAST a VERBAL proposition before arresting him?
    In the recorded tapes, Craig REPEATEDLY denys being gay or looking for gay activity. But DOES state that he MUST catch his flight and wants to do anything possible to be on his way.
    So the cop offers "plead guilty" to the LESSOR CHARGE and you're free to go.
    Obviously not the best choice in HIND SIGHT for Craig. But at the time, w/the relitively small fine an attractive option for a man in danger of missing his flight.
    At best the evidence against Craig is circumstancial and by no means proof that he's gay or was cruising restrooms for gay encounters.
    Now note that this news has only now broken simultaniously w/the news that the Democrats (IE: Ms.Clinton) have been receiving illegal campaign contributions. And that via the Liberal media, this has nearly obscured that news.
    Note also that the Senators calling for Craigs resignation are ANTI-GUNNERS.
    Looks like an opportunistic SET-UP to me.
  • spanielsellsspanielsells Member Posts: 12,498
    edited November -1
    A few things:

    1. He may or may not be gay. I don't care.

    2. I agree with you, if you're traveling alone, where the hell are you supposed to put your bags? In your lap while taking a dump?

    3. Being gay and being pro-gay marriage are two different animals entirely. There are plenty of outspoken homosexuals that are not for redefining marriage, just as there are plenty of Hispanics that are not for illegal immigration, just as there are plenty of blacks that are not for reparations, just as there are plenty of women that do not support abortion.

    4. I can even buy the whole, "I have a wide stance" thing. When I'm in a public bathroom, there have been instances where people's feet sure seem to be darned close to that divider. No big deal. I can understand tapping of feet. Some people do that when they're nervous. There are people that don't like going to the bathroom in a public restroom... or, he might have had a song stuck in his head.

    5. I do not understand peeking through the crack of the door. If you need to see if a stall is occupied (and not just with the door locked and the stall empty -- some people have a sick sense of humor and enjoy doing this), you just have to look at the floor and see if there's shoes there.

    6. I personally would never pick up a piece of toilet paper from the floor of a public restroom. But, I suppose it is possible for someone else to want to do it. I wouldn't. The floor of a public restroom is one step more sanitary than the inside of a portapotty's storage tank.

    7. To be a U.S. Senator and to not seek representation on a criminal charge that you cannot believe to be anything other than detrimental to your career is simply irresponsible. Everyone knows that a man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client. If he can't be responsible enough to hire an attorney for something like this, do we really want him passing laws that affect all of us?

    I appreciate the man's positions and votes. But, it bothers me that someone would do something THIS foolish with his level of responsibility.

    The right thing for him to do is to resign and cease dragging the GOP further into the headlines. The Dems can be beaten in 2008. It isn't as if Joe American likes the Dems, either. But, Craig, in this case, should be thinking of what is best for the GOP and not for what is best for Craig.

    He should resign. Leave the sex scandals and refusals to step down to the professionals (the Dems).
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    Agreed that Craigs guilty plea is the most damning part of the story. He blew his best and most important opportunity to plead his innocence. But remember, he plead guilty to a reduced charge that he was influenced into believing would not reference the alleged Gay aspects of the incident.
    At the time paying (what $50.) fine might have looked good as opposed to the expense & hassle of missing his flight.
    I can't explain the alleged "peering into the cops stall". If he did, a DEFINANT vioation of the "guy code".
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 14,384 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Heard the police interview,,,,typical presssure as to admit it and you can go scenario. I AM NOT saying he is innocent, BUT if I was on a jury, he would walk in a heartbeat from what was on the tape.....nambu
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    If he remains in the Senate he is sure to be censured and that is going to lead to further embarassment. Most of the Senators faced with censure have chosen to resign and of the handful who remained in their seats after censure I am not sured that any were ever reelcted during the next election cycle (which is next year for Craig). I could not care less whether or not the man is gay, but just as spanielssell's said, anyone with such poor judgement should not be in such a high position of power.
  • SperrySperry Member Posts: 4,965 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "peering into the cops stall" ???

    We don't know the extent of the "peering".

    Turning your back on an officer can be Resisting Arrest, even if you were turning to consult with a person beside you.

    Failure to Obey A Command goes nicely with Resisting Arrest.
    It'll get you tazzered.

    I say his mug shots in yeterday's AP. For a guy ready to retire, my first thought was

    It's a damn shame.
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
    anyone remember a sitting president using a cigar on a young women in his charge in his office and getting away with it ? and now they are going after Craig because he might be gay what a Fu--ing joke


    Clinton stood up, had his day in court (impeachment) and beat the rap (slick). Craig wanted to hide the whole matter, make it go away and copped a plee. Not a wise move for a man in his position. If I were accused of this sort of thing I'd have five lawyers retained before I ever left that airport and I'd be demanding my right to a day in court to face my accuser and then have my hired guns rip that detective to shreads on the stand. The fact that Craig was an out spoken opponent of gay rights makes people feel as sorry for him as when we learned that loud mouth anti-drug Rush was a dope addict. People in glass houses should not throw stones and most of these guys like Larry and Rush toss bricks around all day long...And then they are amazed at the pain when one of those same bricks falls back to earth and hits them square on the head.
  • dolfandolfan Member Posts: 4,159
    edited November -1
    Craig is guilty as sin. I'll give'em the benifit of the dought when he states he's not gay...but he's a bisexual.

    From reports I've read, Craig went out the way...left his gate area and walked clear across the airport to reach that restroom. He passed numerous restrooms along the way. We all know that when you gotta go, you go. Find the closes RR and do your business.

    Why did he do this? Because that particular restroom was posted on gay sites as being the place for a quickie. That is why the cop was in there in the first place. It was a known homo stall.

    Don't get me wrong though. I have nothing against gays. Craig should cowboy up, admit his sexual orientation and fight to keep his seat...at least until he is booted out in the next election.
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
    anyone remember a sitting president using a cigar on a young women in his charge in his office and getting away with it ? and now they are going after Craig because he might be gay what a Fu--ing joke


    Clinton stood up, had his day in court (impeachment) and beat the rap (slick). Craig wanted to hide the whole matter, make it go away and copped a plee. Not a wise move for a man in his position. If I were accused of this sort of thing I'd have five lawyers retained before I ever left that airport and I'd be demanding my right to a day in court to face my accuser and then have my hired guns rip that detective to shreads on the stand. The fact that Craig was an out spoken opponent of gay rights makes people feel as sorry for him as when we learned that loud mouth anti-drug Rush was a dope addict. People in glass houses should not throw stones and most of these guys like Larry and Rush toss bricks around all day long...And then they are amazed at the pain when one of those same bricks falls back to earth and hits them square on the head.

    "Clinton stood up?" That's one of the most laughable comments I've seen in awhile. Does the phrase "I never ha sex w/that Woman" ring a bell?
    And don't class Limbaugh w/street drug users. Granted he was buying drugs illegally. But he developed his addiction as the result and was buying the drugs to (self) treat a legit MEDICAL PROBLEM.
    But I do agree that stone throwers shouldn't live in glass houses. And to some extent I'm glad to see the Republican Party go thru some purging.
    There is a Liberal media myth that they lost the November election beause of loss of support of the war. The REAL reason is that they very simply failed to act while in majority, on MANY issues that their base EXPECTED them to. Spending,Illegal immigration, Line item veto, Social Security reform, etc.
    In short, for whatever reasons, they SCREWED US. And they deserve to be replaced. They moved to the center instead of staying the coarse RIGHT. As a matter of fact, the skunk I hit last week was in the middle of the road too.
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
    anyone remember a sitting president using a cigar on a young women in his charge in his office and getting away with it ? and now they are going after Craig because he might be gay what a Fu--ing joke


    Clinton stood up, had his day in court (impeachment) and beat the rap (slick). Craig wanted to hide the whole matter, make it go away and copped a plee. Not a wise move for a man in his position. If I were accused of this sort of thing I'd have five lawyers retained before I ever left that airport and I'd be demanding my right to a day in court to face my accuser and then have my hired guns rip that detective to shreads on the stand. The fact that Craig was an out spoken opponent of gay rights makes people feel as sorry for him as when we learned that loud mouth anti-drug Rush was a dope addict. People in glass houses should not throw stones and most of these guys like Larry and Rush toss bricks around all day long...And then they are amazed at the pain when one of those same bricks falls back to earth and hits them square on the head.

    Does the phrase "I never ha sex w/that Woman" ring a bell?



    Yeah, it sounds a lot like "I am not gay". Clinton faced the music and he skated away as only he could manage to do.
  • PennyPincherPennyPincher Member Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm confused, gay or straight, is it illegal to try to pick someone up? Isn't consensual sex between adults legal regardless of where you meet? He didn't actually DO anything which I would say could be considered a crime did he? What am I missing? If I'm in a bar and a guy makes a pass at me and we go into a bathroom to have consensual sex (wouldn't do it - I'm happily married to my husband) what laws have we broken other than having sex in a public restroom if that's a crime? [wish someone would create a confused emoticon]
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
    anyone remember a sitting president using a cigar on a young women in his charge in his office and getting away with it ? and now they are going after Craig because he might be gay what a Fu--ing joke


    Clinton stood up, had his day in court (impeachment) and beat the rap (slick). Craig wanted to hide the whole matter, make it go away and copped a plee. Not a wise move for a man in his position. If I were accused of this sort of thing I'd have five lawyers retained before I ever left that airport and I'd be demanding my right to a day in court to face my accuser and then have my hired guns rip that detective to shreads on the stand. The fact that Craig was an out spoken opponent of gay rights makes people feel as sorry for him as when we learned that loud mouth anti-drug Rush was a dope addict. People in glass houses should not throw stones and most of these guys like Larry and Rush toss bricks around all day long...And then they are amazed at the pain when one of those same bricks falls back to earth and hits them square on the head.

    Does the phrase "I never ha sex w/that Woman" ring a bell?



    Yeah, it sounds a lot like "I am not gay". Clinton faced the music and he skated away as only he could manage to do.

    Clinton, Sandy Burgler and several other Democrats have "Skated" because the GOP allowed them to. Whether for the "good of the country" or because they're ALL a bunch of liars and crooks who stick (stuck) together is debateable.
    But one thing is, or should be clear to the GOP. The Liberals are now playing HARD BALL. If you as much as have an allegation of a slip-up, they're going to expoit it in attempt of TAKING YOU DOWN.
    We've seen a GOP Congressman forced to resign because he sent Homosexual mesaages to pages. While a Democrat (not including Clinton) who atually had Homosexual sex w/pages remains.
    Libby framed in a case where he was innocent of the crime he was originally accused of. While the Democrats who actually committed the crime were never charged.
    Sandy Berger GUILTY of stealng CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. And will have his security clearance REINSTATED?
    Democrat caught w/$100K of bribe money in their Freezer who are STILL IN OFFICE.
    Does something look lop-sided to anyone else?
  • Flyin_PaulieFlyin_Paulie Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We do not know if Larry Craig was "on the prowl" or not. To me, it really doesn't matter. It appears he was guilty of being dumb enough or naive enough to enter a guilty plea. In doing so, he may have felt it was the best avenue to take, considering the unforgiving homophobic nature of his peers and the voters. This theory (or fear) seems to have been bourne out in the past few days.
    This, I think, is one of the main reasons good people (I.E., Colin Powell) shun public office. They don't do it because they're gay or have something to hide. They know they stand a chance of being crucified by the American public at some point no matter how "clean" they may be. It may be that we, the voting public, have perpetuated a breed of "leaders" who are incapable of doing anything meaningful other than "shine up" their public image.
    I guess the old saying applies; "If you don't do anything, you can't do anything wrong".
    Sorry about the rant.[:)]
  • BarkingDogBarkingDog Member Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see no crime that CRaig committed. It is LEGAL to solicit a stranger for sex. It is legal to be gay. It is NOT illegal to touch someones feet in a restroom.
    Where is the crime in this case ? The senator is an idiot for folding under pressure and accepeting a plea deal like so many who are arrested do even when they havent committed a crime.

    If this case had gone to court he would have easily won.
    There was NO VERBAL SOLICITATION of sex or sex for money. There was NO SEXUAL ACTS committed.
    If I was the senator I wouldnt resign and I think its shameful the GOP is selling him out and making him resign just so the party doesnt look bad.

    I also think everyone person in this country should be very afraid and careful what they do in a public restroom now. You might get arrested for touching someones foot.
  • spanielsellsspanielsells Member Posts: 12,498
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by PennyPincher
    I'm confused, gay or straight, is it illegal to try to pick someone up? Isn't consensual sex between adults legal regardless of where you meet? He didn't actually DO anything which I would say could be considered a crime did he? What am I missing? If I'm in a bar and a guy makes a pass at me and we go into a bathroom to have consensual sex (wouldn't do it - I'm happily married to my husband) what laws have we broken other than having sex in a public restroom if that's a crime? [wish someone would create a confused emoticon]
    It is a public place. This is one of those things to "protect the children" (sort of like banning guns). When you go to the bathroom, do you expect to walk in on people having sex?
  • Jeepgod2002Jeepgod2002 Member Posts: 824 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • Alex_KloskeAlex_Kloske Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Didn't know about the foot stomping "signal" in bathrooms,...now I know. Wonder If it works???
    [:0]


    http://cid-465be54ff8ab60db.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!465BE54FF8AB60DB!108.trak
  • BarkingDogBarkingDog Member Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jeepgod2002
    just announced:

    "Amid sex scandal, Sen. Craig resigns"

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/01/craig.arrest/index.html


    its funny how they keep calling it a "sex scandal" when there is no sex...at all.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,144 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've not found that pinching a loaf is a sex inspiring thing to do. He is too weird.
    Why plead guilty?

    Why hide being a fag? You can oppose gay marriage and still be a fag.
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Read the report. He blew his opportunity to fight this instead of the cop[;)]

    For those of you acting so shocked, as in "Gee, I didn't know tapping another guy's foot under a stall was a gay signal", then what excuse do you have for when you ended up with that guy's junk in your mouth?

    Cruising for sex isn't illegal. He may well have beaten the rap.

    What everyone is having a good old time about is that this is HYPOCRACY at its finest. This couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.

    This guy, by the way, was a well known creep. Years ago, before the other repulipuke was crusing for pages, this guy issued a statement saying "I didn't have anything to do with cruising for male pages", before anyone said he did.

    As the man once said, "The woman doth protest too much"
  • Queen of SwordsQueen of Swords Member Posts: 14,355
    edited November -1
    But hypocracy is the "American Way," we thrive on it, we ecourage it in the media, we consume it in mass quantities...then we have the nerve to say "Shame, shame, shame....we expected better out of our leaders..."
    The only thing that made it a "lewd" act is that it occurred in the context of a homosexual relationship between two men.
  • Queen of SwordsQueen of Swords Member Posts: 14,355
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rcrxs old lady
    But hypocracy is the "American Way." Sex is everywhere, we thrive on it, we ecourage it in the media, we consume it in mass quantities...then we have the nerve to say "Shame, shame, shame....we expected better out of our leaders..."
    The only thing that made it a "lewd" act is that it occurred in the context of a homosexual relationship between two men.
  • Flyin_PaulieFlyin_Paulie Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rcrxs old lady
    But hypocracy is the "American Way," we thrive on it, we ecourage it in the media, we consume it in mass quantities...then we have the nerve to say "Shame, shame, shame....we expected better out of our leaders..."
    The only thing that made it a "lewd" act is that it occurred in the context of a homosexual relationship between two men.Did it? Who can prove that? This is a prime example of someone assuming the worst.[V]
  • Queen of SwordsQueen of Swords Member Posts: 14,355
    edited November -1
    Define "worse"....Worse than what?
    I can think of a lot of things that coulds be considered "worse" than admitting that one is or being a homosexual.
  • Flyin_PaulieFlyin_Paulie Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rcrxs old lady
    Define "worse"....Worse than what?
    I can think of a lot of things that coulds be considered "worse" than admitting that one is or being a homosexual.
    What I need to know is how you arrived at this being a homosexual act? That is my point. I don't see it that way. Please explain your thinking to me (if you did think?.
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    All he has to do is switch parties - he'll fit right in.
  • PennyPincherPennyPincher Member Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by PennyPincher
    I'm confused, gay or straight, is it illegal to try to pick someone up? Isn't consensual sex between adults legal regardless of where you meet? He didn't actually DO anything which I would say could be considered a crime did he? What am I missing? If I'm in a bar and a guy makes a pass at me and we go into a bathroom to have consensual sex (wouldn't do it - I'm happily married to my husband) what laws have we broken other than having sex in a public restroom if that's a crime? [wish someone would create a confused emoticon]
    It is a public place. This is one of those things to "protect the children" (sort of like banning guns). When you go to the bathroom, do you expect to walk in on people having sex?


    No. But no sex took place and no verbal discussion took place. Are we the thought police now?
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No question in my mind that were he a Democrat he would still hold his seat in the Senate. Notice there were no Dems calling for his ouster. They know the Reps will do it in these cases.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Alex_Kloske
    Didn't know about the foot stomping "signal" in bathrooms,...now I know. Wonder If it works???
    [:0]


    http://cid-465be54ff8ab60db.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!465BE54FF8AB60DB!108.trak


    Now I know where DWS get his "Stomp your foot twice if you understand" comes from.
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