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Firearms in Post Office
BT3
Member Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭
Has anyone ever seen a (no firearm sticker) at the main entrance to the Post Office ? I haven't where I live. [8D]
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Has anyone ever seen a (no firearm sticker) at the main entrance to the Post Office ? I haven't where I live. [8D]
Its a federal building so NO GUNS ALOUD. By SC law a sign has to be a certain size, the letters, even the picture with the gun and cross through it. Must be posted on all entrie pionts. I have yet to see a building that quilfies with the code. And i ain't going to tell them that.
Ben
[br Its a federal building so NO GUNS ALOUD. By SC law a sign has to be a certain size, the letters, even the picture with the gun and cross through it. Must be posted on all entrie pionts. I have yet to see a building that quilfies with the code. And i ain't going to tell them that.
Horse Manure[xx(]... and absolutely not true. I routinely have both Antique and C&R firearms mailed to me through the U.S. Postal system, and for security purposes, I pick them up at the local Post Office versus having them delivered.
I mail guns.....at the POST OFFICE.
What they mean is no concealed carry allowed.[:(]
There is no law that prohibits concealed carry in a Post Office that I am aware of.
maybe they finally realized that nobody pays attention to those stupid things, including myself.
quote:Originally posted by BT3
Has anyone ever seen a (no firearm sticker) at the main entrance to the Post Office ? I haven't where I live. [8D]
Its a federal building so NO GUNS ALOUD. By SC law a sign has to be a certain size, the letters, even the picture with the gun and cross through it. Must be posted on all entrie pionts. I have yet to see a building that quilfies with the code. And i ain't going to tell them that.
How 'bout if one uses a SILENCER? [:D][8D][:p]
Am I reading this wrong?
Can't say if you're reading it wrong or not. How are you reading it?
The way I read it is you can't carry a firearm or dangerous weapon in a Post Office unless you are hunting or carrying for another lawful purpose. If you have a CCW, you are carrying for a lawful purpose. I don't do much hunting in the Post Office.
Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 44 > ? 930
? 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
Release date: 2005-08-03
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113 and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to- (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. (e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious * injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
in about half of the PO I go they have the signs the other half don't
Places off-limits while carrying
Date updated: Aug 7, 2005 @ 6:44 pm
SECTION 23-31-215 (M).
(1) police, sheriff, or highway patrol station or any other law enforcement office or facility;
(2) detention facility, prison, or jail or any other correctional facility or office;
(3) courthouse or courtroom;
(4) polling place on election days;
(5) office of or the business meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special purpose district;
(6) school or college athletic event not related to firearms;
(7) day care facility or pre-school facility;
(8) place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law;
(9) church or other established religious sanctuary (unless authorized);
(10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employee.
Any Place a sign posted states, "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" in accordance with SECTION 23-31-235. (sign must meet requirements).
Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings. No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate.
The "Offenses Involving
"Federal law prohibitions. Under federal law, 18 United States Code Section 930, it is illegal to have a firearm in a building or part of a buildingowned or leased by the federal government where federal employees are regularly present for performing their duties."
Also from page 12, "The absence of a sign IS NOT an indication that a concealed handgun is permitted on the premesis."
By the way, the land occupied in the District of Columbia is entirely within the borders of Maryland; Virginia withdrew their offer of land for the federal govt.
Neal
Am I reading this wrong?
You are reading this absoutely correctly. I say this because what is written is written in simple, every day, common man words/language. No one needs a lawyer or court to interpert something stated this simply for us.In fact, there has been at least one lawyer on the internet who has addressed this issue. And he emphatically claims that title 18 of the US Code of Criminal Conduct, the ultimate authority, created and passed by Congress, clearly gives the right for any lawful citizen to carry a firearm in the Post Office, the IRS, the USDA, SS office,etc. IF that carrying is for a lawful reason. Such a lawful reason as you having a CCW license, or your city/state has a open carry law, or if you, just for example, are on your way to a hunting trip and have to stop by the Post Office, SS office, etc. and cannot/do not want to leave your gun unattended in your vehicle. Or maybe you are on foot walking to your hunting spot and don't even HAVE your vehicle with you.
This gun right provided for by title 18 is NOT SUPPOSED to be able to be over-ridden by ANYONE/ANY AGENCY since it is clearly the will of Congress. So if you legally carry your gun inside a post office and are arrested, or if the local postmaster posts a sign saying no guns allowed, then the will of Congress is being violated. In this case, such a violation of the will of Congress should make a lot of people mad; but it doesn't.
Anyway, and this has been discussed extensively, this is yet another case whereas the citizens have a certain right according to written rules/laws/constitution/etc, but are still denied that right. Just as with my KS State Constitution which cleary gives the citizens the right to CCW but if you do you will be arrested.
From Ohio's Concealed Carry Law, page 12:
"Federal law prohibitions. Under federal law, 18 United States Code Section 930, it is illegal to have a firearm in a building or part of a buildingowned or leased by the federal government where federal employees are regularly present for performing their duties."
Also from page 12, "The absence of a sign IS NOT an indication that a concealed handgun is permitted on the premesis."
Most people will stop reading title 18 after they get to the part which prohibits firearms in federal facilities. Sadly they fail to continue reading to the part where Congress provides for the right of lawful citizens carrying fireams into federal facilities. Facilities which those lawful citizens ARE ACTUALLY THE OWNERS OF BTW.
And does anyone REALLY support the right of the local postmaster (for just one example) to post a "no guns" sign and therby override the written will of Congress? Not a whole lot different than if the local postmaster just up and decided to raise the price of stamps. In that case EVERYONE would be in an uproar. Yet strangely, everyone is passive about not having the right to lawfully carry your firearm in most federal facilities.
no, but I used to see them at the movie theater.. however, last time I went, the sign wasnt there anymore..
maybe they finally realized that nobody pays attention to those stupid things, including myself.
More likely, they realized that the chances of having trouble with concealed weapons inside was not as important as the lost business they suffered by scaring people away with big "NO GUNS ALLOWED" signs that made non-gun people think there was a problem with that.
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
After checking if its was OK with the Postmaster on duty.
And, yes, that, Post Office had the no gun signs up.
Packaged up, I belive it was a AK47 that was sold, in the front lobby.
Had cardboard and made up a box to ship it in, and used the rifle as the template for length & width.
Got smiles from most of the males, but a couple of females gave that "Look".
Now just take them in already boxed, ready to ship, alot easier.
Walte
In Indiana, the public lobby of the post office is not considered offlimits for concealed carry. The work area is a different story.
Well, that is a step in the right direction. But what if you need to be taken back into the work area to examine one of your large, very damaged packages, or to talk to the postmaster in private, etc. In that case, if you do need to enter the work area, are you going to be arrested if it is discovered you are carrying? Or should you have to ask for a few minutes to go back to your personal vehicle (if you even have one with you as a neighbor may have given you a ride, you may have ridden the bus or even taken a cab to the Post Office) and secure your firearm in front of anyone who cares to notice; and perhaps cares to break into your vehicle once you return into the post office?
My position is that ANYTIME a lawful citizen needs to conduct business, especially if that citizen is summoned to that location, a lawful citizen should not have to give up their gun carry rights. CCW, heading out on a hunting trip, open carry allowed state,etc. type rights. JMHO
Dropped a few jaws on a Saturday in the Post Office lobby, a few years ago.
After checking if its was OK with the Postmaster on duty.
And, yes, that, Post Office had the no gun signs up.
Packaged up, I belive it was a AK47 that was sold, in the front lobby.
Had cardboard and made up a box to ship it in, and used the rifle as the template for length & width.
Got smiles from most of the males, but a couple of females gave that "Look".
Now just take them in already boxed, ready to ship, alot easier.
Walte
Good for you for having the guts to do as you did the one and first time. Most of us kinda hide the fact that we are picking up, or shipping a gun. There is nothing at all wrong with lawful citizens doing going about their lawful business involving guns. Kinda wish more people would do as you did the one and first time. Might help gun rights by de-sensitizing the public so that they won't automatically before fearful,alarmed or irritated if they see a legal, lawful gun in public in the hands of a lawful citizen just going about his/her business.
The federal government is allowed by its own Constitution to own a 10 square mile (or is it 10 miles square) parcel known as the District of Columbia, and no more.
Actually they can own Monuments and Military Installations also.