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Has anyone tried HHO for better MPG?

scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
I have often said America needs a new technology bubble and I believe it needs to come from renewable energy such as Hydrogen. Companies and individuals are beginning to build Hydrogen generators that add the gas to the standard A/F mixture in a typical gas or diesel internal combustion engine.
We need to develop a nationwide HHO infrastucture and a new proprietary hho engine and platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOK3XqgMo9o&feature=related

Comments

  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    It is Total and Utter B.S.

    I am a Degreed Engineer - That device takes more energy to make the Hydrogen than you get back when you burn it.

    Just like the magnets that "Align the Molecules" in your Fuel Line, or the No-Salt Electric Water Conditioners. Another Expensive Do-Nothing.

    Save your Money.
  • KSUmarksmanKSUmarksman Member Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HandLoad
    It is Total and Utter B.S.

    I am a Degreed Engineer - That device takes more energy to make the Hydrogen than you get back when you burn it.

    Just like the magnets that "Align the Molecules" in your Fuel Line, or the No-Salt Electric Water Conditioners. Another Expensive Do-Nothing.

    Save your Money.


    I concur, scientifically this makes no sense. It violates the conservation of energy.
    water is chemically more stable than hydrogen, which is exactly why hydrogen and oxygen burn to make...WATER!
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Utter hogwash!

    Without delving into atomic weights and the caloric content of HHO, allow me a moment to clarify this subject in the simplest of terms:

    Let's start with a really efficient internal combustion engine and assign a 35% rating. (Rarely achieved in the real world.) This means that 65% of the fuel burned is wasted.

    We'll now place parasitic drag on the engine with the addition of an alternator. Some will claim the result to be "free" energy, but it most certainly isn't! There's mechanical loss from the pulley system, mechanical loss from the alternator mechanics, heat loss as the result of electrical generation, etc. And, of course, we clip the resulting sine wave and use only the positive portion. This results in a unit that is somewhere in the 50% efficiency area or less.

    Next we'll use alternator output to power our HHO generation. The result of passing current through water mixed with a mild electrolyte is the release of H, O, and heat. (Read HEAT as a further loss of energy.)

    Let's say we've just run a gallon of fuel through the engine. 65% has gone up in wasted energy, so we have about 35% to do actual work. We run an alternator which removes yet another percentage of available power from the engine and is somewhere in the 50% range of efficiency.

    A portion of the electricity generated by the alternator is routed to the HHO generator. A further portion of which is soaked up by resistance in the conductors and yet another portion by the generation of heat. And so another reduction in efficiency.

    We then reintroduce the HHO mixture into an engine that's only 35% efficient... Which means that 65% of the HHO introduced into the engine is wasted.

    Aside from the fact that gaseous H is about as poor a fuel as could ever be used in an internal combustion engine for reasons I can explain, but that would take a lot of technical data... Do you see a pattern developing?

    Son, there ain't a free lunch here!
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First off. The guy in the video is a Fool. Those glass jars are grenades waiting to explode. more later.

    With that said. He's running a very basic brute force system very similar to the one I had. Where he's getting 35mpg out of a Burb I won't guess. The biggest mileage gain I found was 2-2.5mpg. Granted, he's got a much more efficient fueling system than I had, but still.
    The only real benefit I had was easier starts and cleaner burn of all the fuel my MC 2150 leaked into the engine. It took a six cell shared bath system to gain the 2.5 that I got.
    A manifold swap and a properly tuned Quadrajet gave me 4mpg and I don't have the hassle of maintaining the generator and disposing of the toxic crap it creats.


    Now, about those grenades. I would hazard a guess that the screws through the lids make up an electrical connection on the underside of the caps. Eventually one of those screws will vibrate loose which will in turn cause a spark inside a container full of highly explosive gas.
    How do I know this? I had it happen. Even with loctite on all the screws, one vibrated loose. Fortunately I made mine out of PVC pipe rather than a glass jar. As fate would have it I was working under the hood when the BF generator exploded. The only injury was to the hood of my Wagoneer where the cap hit it. I couldn't hear poop for nearly an hour and it scared the crap out of my neighbor who was mowing his yard nearby.
  • River RatRiver Rat Member Posts: 9,022
    edited November -1
    One word: "Hindenburg"
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is a guy in the county I live in that drives around in what looks like an old Taurus station wagon.

    This POS has pipes, and hoses run everywhere, and all kinds of bottles and tanks mounted on the roof.

    I have no idea what he is trying to sell, but I have laughed my rear off the couple of times I have seen him.
    Letters on his back window claim getting 40 mpg for free, or something to that effect.[:D]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    interesting, I was sure at least one guy would claim he had a good experience with the HHO.
    In another vid I watched the guy explained that the first tank of fuel he ran with the generator attached yielded about 8 mpg better but that over time his vehicles computer compensated for the difference in the fuel much as it would for an altitude change or addition of ethanol and he returned to his regular economy. He said that the computer has to be tricked into maintaining the good economy and that involved alot of work/knowledge. He said exhaust temps were important (pyrometer) because a lean air fuel mixture will burn up an ICE (internal combustion engine)
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Of course you can use H2O. They have been using water injection in piston engines for decades.
  • buckstarbuckstar Member Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I regard anyone saying that they are working on an "HHO" project as not having the basic understanding of the substance they are making. Any nitwit can pass electricity though water to make 2H2+O2, many of them will have their equipment explode in their face and think that a 'bubbler' of some sort will make it a safe and practical concept. The person in the video link provided probably has had catastrophes with even his magic bubbler and so he has a vent to flush ambient air through his mason jars to dilute the gas further... to the point that it's not really fuel anymore but won't blow up either. His truck will not see this extra air through the MAF but will read it in the exhaust via the oxygen sensor and simply let more fuel into the engine to correct for it.

    If you really want to increase fuel efficiency you could eliminate the extra fuel that is intentionally wasted in order to make the catalytic converter function (as it requires a fuel-rich exhaust), lean out the mix as far as you can go, and use water injection to keep the cylinders from overheating. That's one theory I just came up with on the spot here... won't ever test it because of EPA laws and my incompetence with the involved systems though. I suppose I could just make 'HHO's' and make wild claims all damn day though.
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HHOs' work wonderfully, but YOU the driver have to wear a copper wrist bracelet whenever you are driving. The copper channels your karma into the fuel mix and doubles your mileage.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I used to use it, but the hassle of stopping every 100 miles to drain my gas tank was worse than going to the pump every 400.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    And maybe Don's story is about as truthful as it gets![:D]
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Work with an idiot that keeps trying to sell us his Kit.

    Keeps saying he has proof it works, Or some guy in Japan is selling cars that run on it.

    Finally told him he is full of it and to never talk about that junk around me again.

    The best was the day he was late for work and his car runs on HHO[:o)]

    He is the same guy who is getting the really large tax return without having all his paperwork yet.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The guy at work was all pissed at the President cause He didn't bring up HHO. Said there are a bunch of companies who use it.
  • catpealer111catpealer111 Member Posts: 10,695
    edited November -1
    A guy I knew tried it on his Silverado. He was dumb though, it was a mayo car sized contraption and a tune for his ECU that just leaned out the mix. Ended up cooking his engine.
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