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Why do they carry the rifle like that?

SahaganBetaSahaganBeta Member Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
edited November 2007 in General Discussion
I don't watch much television, but when I see shots from Iraq, I see folks carrying their guns held across their stomachs, and sitting on the outside of their arms, in a position that seems counter-intuitive to me.

Why do they use that position? I'm not stupid, and I do know the military knows what they're doing, but I sure don't (maybe I am stupid after all)!

And too, where are the shotguns? If I were scurrying around, in and through houses that may hold suspected terrorists, I'm much prefer a good tactical shotgun over a rifle. Shucks, I reckon you can get shot shells now that will do just about anything short of make your coffee for you.

Just wondering....

Sahagan

Comments

  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    They like the Full auto stuff,, spray and pray type shooting.. Shotgun is a too close up of a weapon, The Short version of the AK can be swung around just as well as a shotgun..Contrary to belief the shot gun is not as effective up close and personal as the shot pattern doesnt start to spread until about 25 feet, so it is just as easy to miss up close with a shotgun as it is a rifle.. Now Saw it down to about 5 inches of barrel then ya get a little better shot spread up close..[:D][:D]
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    You can also shoot shot-shells dot of a rifled slug bbl, and get a hellova spread
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You mean like the guy in the photo below?

    It is much easier for someone with long arms to get a rifle on target when it is carried in such a manner. The rifle is placed on the shoulder by using the hand holding the forearm of the rifle. It is easier than having to move the arm holding the butt plate end outward, upward and then back to the shoulder in order to get the rifle on the on target.



    walkdown.jpg


    Try it a few times with a rifle or shotgun. If you have long arms it may be easier for you.

    Shot guns? To close for good effect.
  • ljwrenchljwrench Member Posts: 5,053
    edited November -1
    They do have shotguns over there. Use 'em for blowing locks off of doors.
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,124 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You probably won't find camera men real close to where it's hairy enough to be using a shotgun for house clearing. I've not been trained on the style of carry that you describe but it appears to be a way to carry the M-4 in a ready position while allowing the strap to support most of the weight. With the collapsible stock it's fairly quick to get shots off that way. Maybe not real accurate but bullets going out makes you feel better. It also allows use of both hands without slinging the rifle on your back and out of action.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
    You mean like the guy in the photo below?

    It is much easier for someone with long arms to get a rifle on target when it is carried in such a manner. The rifle is placed on the shoulder by using the hand holding the forearm of the rifle. It is easier than having to move the arm holding the butt plate end outward, upward and then back to the shoulder in order to get the rifle on the on target.






    yes, tac slings are the best thing since cotton underwear, it has nothing to do with spray and pray, very comfortable, and very quick compared to any other sling, your arms will have no fatigue, and help in a quick accurate shot
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,423 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The reasoning for the carry position is because it's a more readily available position. It's called the "low ready." It's a lot faster to shoulder a weapon from the low ready than from a shoulder slung position. It also is more of a deterrance, because if done properly, it makes the soldiers look very intimidating.

    Shotguns are used, just not by all soldiers during MOUT operations. They are used mostly for breeching the entry into a room or building, and are usually issued only to one soldier per fire-team (4 soldiers). Shotguns are very good for close quarters, indeed, but they don't have nearly as much ammo capacity as an M4, and each shotgun round is much larger and heavier than each M4 round. The reload time for a shotgun is also much slower than for an M4. Your team can remain combat effective for much longer if you carry more ammo, and it's hard to carry 210 rounds or more of 12 ga. 00 buck shot per person. Also, what about when the troops are moving between buildings? A shotgun doesn't do much good when you're trying to use suppressing fire on a guy that's standing on a rooftop 3 blocks away and shooting at you.

    No, the M4 is a much better option for urban operations than a shotgun.
  • RaupleminzeRaupleminze Member Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They use mossberg 590a1's and Benneli's over there for entry teams....
  • needmygunsneedmyguns Member Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
    The reasoning for the carry position is because it's a more readily available position. It's called the "low ready." It's a lot faster to shoulder a weapon from the low ready than from a shoulder slung position. It also is more of a deterrance, because if done properly, it makes the soldiers look very intimidating.

    Shotguns are used, just not by all soldiers during MOUT operations. They are used mostly for breeching the entry into a room or building, and are usually issued only to one soldier per fire-team (4 soldiers). Shotguns are very good for close quarters, indeed, but they don't have nearly as much ammo capacity as an M4, and each shotgun round is much larger and heavier than each M4 round. The reload time for a shotgun is also much slower than for an M4. Your team can remain combat effective for much longer if you carry more ammo, and it's hard to carry 210 rounds or more of 12 ga. 00 buck shot per person. Also, what about when the troops are moving between buildings? A shotgun doesn't do much good when you're trying to use suppressing fire on a guy that's standing on a rooftop 3 blocks away and shooting at you.

    No, the M4 is a much better option for urban operations than a shotgun.




    THANKS FOR THAT INFO VERY INTERESTING,
  • SahaganBetaSahaganBeta Member Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In the catalogs for such as us, most tactical rifles (they're A4's now?) have a whole host of added accessories, a tactical light, lazers, scopes, red dots and so on, almost ad infinitum.

    I don't see quite so much hardware on the rifles in the action shots from over there.

    Sahagan

    edited to add....Oh yeah, thanks for the info. It's good stuff.
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,423 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SahaganBeta
    In the catalogs for such as us, most tactical rifles (they're A4's now?) have a whole host of added accessories, a tactical light, lazers, scopes, red dots and so on, almost ad infinitum.

    I don't see quite so much hardware on the rifles in the action shots from over there.

    Sahagan

    edited to add....Oh yeah, thanks for the info. It's good stuff.



    It's because all that stuff adds weight. A bare-bones M4 (not A4) weighs about 5 to 6 pounds. All that extra stuff can bump the weight up to around 10 pounds easily. Soldiers who partake in urban combat on a daily basis learn what they do and don't need to carry very quickly.
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,423 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Raupleminze
    They use mossberg 590a1's and Benneli's over there for entry teams....



    Most of the Mossberg shotguns used are 500s. They also use the Benelli M-4 Tactical, also known as the M1014 Joint-Service Shotgun.
  • iwannausernameiwannausername Member Posts: 7,131
    edited November -1
    Check out the writings of Michael Yon

    http://michaelyon-online.com/

    quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
    You probably won't find camera men real close to where it's hairy...
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