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Pledge of Allegiance Spoken in Spanish

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
edited February 2007 in General Discussion
http://www.wbtv.com/home/5421951.html

Pledge of Allegiance Spoken in Spanish


There is some concern involving the Charlotte Mecklenburg Schools and the Pledge of Allegiance.

The district held its first ever mid-year graduation ceremony at Ovens Auditorium Monday night.

During the ceremony, the Pledge of Allegiance was first read in English and then in Spanish. Many people sat down while it was read in Spanish and did not clap.

Parent Tom Davis is on North Mecklenburg High School's Leadership Team. Davis told WBTV that he has received several angry emails about this Tuesday.

Davis said he hopes CMS can improve its image with the community to get school bonds passed, but he says this doesn't help.

"I think it's divisive in the community and we don't need divisions in the community with the bond vote coming," he said.

CMS declined our request for an on-camera interview Tuesday afternoon, but a school spokesperson said standout Garinger High School student Jose Velasquez led the pledge.

His family emigrated to America and the main reason he was allowed to do a Spanish pledge is so they could understand him. A second reason was sensitivity to Spanish speakers.

WBTV's Tom Roussey has more details on why some people were upset with what happened.
Story Created: Jan 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM EST

Story Updated: Jan 30, 2007 at 11:29 PM EST

Comments

  • CameroonCameroon Member Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The United States of America - Doens't that mean if you want to be
    come a citizen you learn the language of your adopted country? It's
    customs, traditions, etc? The customs, traditions, and language of
    your former country are held to your nieghborhood and family. Why is
    Spanish the alternate language?
  • spurgemasturspurgemastur Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was born and raised in a country in which English speaking white folks were in the minority (albeit, we were a very powerful minority). I enjoyed walking down the street and hearing several different languages...I had no idea what those folks were saying, but I found pleasure in the diversity of sounds I heard on the street. In that place, it did not matter that my language was completely foreign on the continent, and it did not matter that those native to the continent generally chose to forego my language because my folk had all the power.

    And then I moved to the US, and mostly, everybody spoke English. Yeah, that made life a little more easy, but it also made it a lot less interesting.

    As an earth, we are losing languages more rapidly than we are losing species. And I think we really are LOSING something in that. Spanish isn't going to go anywhere, anytime soon, but there are many aboriginal languages that are being lost. And as we lose those languages, we also are losing the wisdom of centuries. Whole cultures are being annihilated. Maybe that sounds extreme, but within an entire culture, do you not think that there might be a FEW insights worth saving? Language is how we make an interface between ourselves and our environment, so those FEW insights very likely rely on the language in which they were born. (That's also why it's so hard for we Westerners to understand those Easterners--yeah, the brown guys--and vice-versa).

    There is no special need to preserve Spanish (I believe that one day the entire planet will speak either or both of English and Spanish, and no other languages), but I think there is a special need to preserve the other languages, because they will very easily be lost. And with them, cultures, wisdom, and knowledge will be lost. If we disallow Spanish, then we must disallow everything other than English, and I think that would be a tragedy. On the other hand, if we accept Spanish, then we open the door to preserving all of the other languages and cultures on the planet.

    I don't think you need to change your culture. I do think that if you allow another culture to die, you've cheated the future, because culture is mutable, and usually it mutates by melding with other cultures.

    So I say, if somebody wants to pledge in Spanish (or any otherlanguage), let them do it, because languages are valuable. It is important that they pledge. It is wholly unimportant to me whether they pledge while retaining their German heritage, their British heritage, their South African Heritage (like me), their Spanish or Hispanic heritage, their Polynesian heritage, or their heritage that is important in a few hundred acres of some remote rainforest. If a person is sincerely willing to make that pledge, let them make it however they need to do so. And let them bring to us what they have to offer.

    That might be my $200, more than my $0.02, but I thought it worth saying.

    Now where's that fire-retardant suit?
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    I was born and raised in a country in which English speaking white folks were in the minority (albeit, we were a very powerful minority). I enjoyed walking down the street and hearing several different languages...I had no idea what those folks were saying, but I found pleasure in the diversity of sounds I heard on the street. In that place, it did not matter that my language was completely foreign on the continent, and it did not matter that those native to the continent generally chose to forego my language because my folk had all the power.

    And then I moved to the US, and mostly, everybody spoke English. Yeah, that made life a little more easy, but it also made it a lot less interesting.

    As an earth, we are losing languages more rapidly than we are losing species. And I think we really are LOSING something in that. Spanish isn't going to go anywhere, anytime soon, but there are many aboriginal languages that are being lost. And as we lose those languages, we also are losing the wisdom of centuries. Whole cultures are being annihilated. Maybe that sounds extreme, but within an entire culture, do you not think that there might be a FEW insights worth saving? Language is how we make an interface between ourselves and our environment, so those FEW insights very likely rely on the language in which they were born. (That's also why it's so hard for we Westerners to understand those Easterners--yeah, the brown guys--and vice-versa).

    There is no special need to preserve Spanish (I believe that one day the entire planet will speak either or both of English and Spanish, and no other languages), but I think there is a special need to preserve the other languages, because they will very easily be lost. And with them, cultures, wisdom, and knowledge will be lost. If we disallow Spanish, then we must disallow everything other than English, and I think that would be a tragedy.

    So I say, if somebody wants to pledge in Spanish (or any other dirty language), let them do it, because languages are valuable. It is important that they pledge. It is wholly unimportant to me whether they pledge while retaining their German heritage, their British heritage, their South African Heritage (like me), their Spanish or Hispanic heritage, their Polynesian heritage, or their heritage that is important in a few hundred acres of some remote rainforest. If a person is sincerely willing to make that pledge, let them make it however they need to do so. And let them bring to us what they have to offer.

    That might be my $200, more than my $0.02, but I thought it worth saying.

    Now where's that fire-retardant suit?
    You are going to need that suit![}:)]

    I don't have a problem with people wanting to preserve their heritage and/or their language. But we speak english here in the great USofA. There are even states (California is one of them) that voted to make english the official language.

    The Pledge and the Anthem should be spoken in english as that was the language they were written in.

    Also immigrants should be required to speak english (at least good enuff to place an order in a resteraunt or this of the like) before being allowed into our country. I guarentee the if we went to their country they would not learn english to accomidate us.

    And worst of all this happened at a public school.

    I say it was way out of line for school officials to allow this to happen!
  • spurgemasturspurgemastur Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by *_r_done
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    ...

    Now where's that fire-retardant suit?

    You are going to need that suit![}:)]

    Yes, I believe I will.

    quote:I don't have a problem with people wanting to preserve their heritage and/or their language. But we speak english here in the great USofA. There are even states (California is one of them) that voted to make english the official language.

    I don't think that's necessary. I think all you need to do is offer the State services in whatever language(s) you choose to do so, and those who want those services better need to be conversant in those language(s)quote:

    The Pledge and the Anthem should be spoken in english as that was the language they were written in.

    For official purposes, fair enough. But if somebody makes a translation and uses it then I don't see it as anything other than their desire to assimilate US culture into their culture. Maybe that sounds weird, but it also seems obvious to me that if they're unable to assimilate their culture into US culture, well.....they're not going to be very successful.quote:

    Also immigrants should be required to speak english (at least good enuff to place an order in a resteraunt or this of the like) before being allowed into our country. I guarentee the if we went to their country they would not learn english to accomidate us.

    Your purposive assault on the English language is not lost on me. But again, I don't see how this is necessary as a specific law. If an immigrant needs to attain a certain level of competence in the English language, then let the entrance exam be written in such a way that it tests for that.

    Actually, I think what's really going on here is that you're expressing the frustration that many feel about the use of US resources to provide Spanish-language services for those who don't speak English. I don't have a good answer for that. We share a border with a Spanish speaking country. Many of our immigrants are legal (those could be addressed as described above), and many are illegal (uhh, problem!). I think there's a fair argument to suggest that the US maintains a 'loose border' policy, because the illegal immigrants provide such cheap labor to our large corporations. If that argument holds, then the problem lies mostly with the influence that big business has over our government. I'm open to other interpretations, but that seems to me like the most plausible explanation for our loose border, right now.quote:

    And worst of all this happened at a public school.

    I say it was way out of line for school officials to allow this to happen!

    And I disagree (as if that weren't obvious already). I am not at all offended by a person expressing their allegiance in the language of their choice. Allegiance is a strong word, and I believe it transcends language.
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    So, it's a free country.. huh ???


    As long as you speaka any eenglis.. [}:)]
  • CameroonCameroon Member Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kimberkid - Isn't English the common language of the United States?
    Don't really understand your response.
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry - I accidently deleted the responce you are referring to ...

    quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
    It might mean that if America had ever adopted an official language
    ... but we haven't.

    quote:Originally posted by Cameroon
    The United States of America - Doens't that mean if you want to be
    come a citizen you learn the language of your adopted country? It's
    customs, traditions, etc? The customs, traditions, and language of
    your former country are held to your nieghborhood and family. Why is
    Spanish the alternate language?


    Yes ... its the common language, but we have no "official" language.

    There is no federal law that says you have to speak english. As pointed out above, there are states that have passed law for the official language of their state.

    What if Louisiana passed a law that french was going to be its official language? Using California's reasoning ... they could!


    Actually, I would vote to make "english" (as we know it) our official language ... or we could call it American ... 'cause its not really english.

    The Germans speak german, the French speak french, the Chinese speak chinese, the Koreans speak korean, the Greek speak greek, the Japanese speak Japanese, the Italian speak italian, the Russians speak russian ...

    I see no problem with Americans speaking american!
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • CameroonCameroon Member Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kimberkid - Thanks. Now I understand what you're saying. Wonder if
    other countries in the world have an official language? Was also
    wondering if they had an influx of people from a country that spoke,
    say English, they would have an English version of their language
    available for the new people to understand so they wouldn't be bothered learning the language of the country they came to adopt? Not
    trying to be funny, just wondering. There was a time in this county,
    if I'm not mistaken, that learning English was a normal requirement
    to be able to function in society. Now it seems anything goes. That
    bothers me because if the language is not common then traditions, etc
    will come to the fore and our country could become balkinized like
    Iraq and other places. This would open us up to invasion from another
    country which would play on regional differences to gain a toe hold
    then take over of our country.
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    quote:The Pledge and the Anthem should be spoken in english as that was the language they were written in.


    You mentioned somewhere that you were raised in the Mormon Church. Hmm...did you read the Old and New Testaments in Hebrew and Greek? After all, that IS the langauge they were originally written in. [}:)][:p]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by iluvguns
    quote:The Pledge and the Anthem should be spoken in english as that was the language they were written in.


    You mentioned somewhere that you were raised in the Mormon Church. Hmm...did you read the Old and New Testaments in Hebrew and Greek? After all, that IS the langauge they were originally written in. [}:)][:p]
    That happens to fall into a whole different category. The bible was not written for an individual country, it was written for all people.

    And you should have also read that I have no problem with them preserving their heritage and such. But the Pledge and the anthem is the USofA's heritage and should also be preserved the way it was written for this country. And that happens to be in english!

    And if these immigrants are so ashamed of our country that they cannot respect and help preserve our heritage they need to get the hell out of our country!
  • tobefreetobefree Member Posts: 7,401
    edited November -1
    Ah get over it...I still remember my Grandpa complaining about a smoke signals saying one puff for Shawnee two puffs for English!!! ... We wanted to have one of those million man march thingys about it but after the smoke cleared the wasn't a million of us left!!!! So now when we pick up a phone do we hear dial one for Shawnee? Noooooooo!!! We ain't even on the stinking list!!!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HappyNanoq


    So, it's a free country.. huh ???


    As long as you speaka any eenglis.. [}:)]


    No actually it isn't. We do enjoy a certain amount of freedom that many around the world do not, but things here have been going Socialist for many years.

    As far as "speaka eenglis", anyone is free to speak any language they wish and to maiintain any culture they wish. The problem, and what most people fail to grasp, is that America is an english speaking country and the business of the country should be conducted in the language of the country, period.

    Get it? Most don't.
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750
    edited November -1
    Latin is the language of law and medicine. English is the language of aviation and common communication. French is the language of fine cooking and Italian is the language of love.

    Funny how the people can be American, but their language can't be.
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    America is an english speaking country and the business of the country should be conducted in the language of the country, period.


    I guess you haven't noticed ... thats changing. Even here in Kansas, the middle of the Bible belt we're seeing more and more things in "mexican" ... Its not just "press 1 for english" when you call the un-employeement office anymore ... signs in Wallmart ... bill boards, menue's ...
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,947 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Would you rather they not say the pledge at all? Saying the pledge in Spanish is better, I think, than that.
  • Slow_HandSlow_Hand Member Posts: 2,835
    edited November -1
    Frankly, I'm getting tired of dim-witted educators who make value judgements in a complete vacuum, create a completely unnecessary uproar, ruin an event for the kids and then spend the next 6 months explaining away their utter stupidity. Let's put aside these lofty goals and stop singing "All The World is Beautiful In its Own Way".

    Let me tell you how I think the world is. If I walked into a bar in central Pittsburgh on Super Bowl Sunday of 2006 (Steelers vs. Seahawks) and started screaming wildly for the Seahawks, you think maybe - just maybe - I might get a wee bit of grief for doing it? I'd have to be one of the freakin' dumbest bozos on God's green earth to do it. No? So why deliberately antagonize a crowd of families at what should have been a really fun and congratulatory event?

    Everything in this country is becoming an in-your-face exercise IMO.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,724 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i agree with kimberkid.....here in the middle of AMERICA why should i have to press (1) for english....foreigners want all the freebies yet demand to retain their failed cultural icons....BS.....speak, read, & writing ENGLISH is the common basic denominator unifing this country as it has historically developed... to fragment this basis of our society will speed the dissolution (balkanizaton)of our nation....rant....rant.....SENSTIVITY----PC CRAP....the US congress is the best example of a failed enterprise....why are AMERICANS paying the bill to have their culture undermined??????????again...rant ....rant
  • chollagardenschollagardens Member Posts: 4,614 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't support illegal immigration because of many reasons. One is because there is a take the suckers for everything you can get attitude by many of the illegals.

    If the Pledge of Allegiance is spoken, even in Spanish, those people have a "we" attitude not a them/us attitude. The "we" group have a allegiance with and work to improve and secure this country.
  • wtroperwtroper Member Posts: 736 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In my opinion we, in the USA, are intolerant to our own detriment. I recall being exposed to a couple of foreign exchange students from Europe a few years ago (students who were about the equivalent of our high school seniors). One spoke (and wrote) five languages and the other seven. Many of our high school seniors have substantial difficulty with only one. I feel strongly that U S citizens would be benefited by being multilingual.

    When I travel in Mexico, many (if not most) of the people that I encounter can speak and understand english (better than I understand spanish). I fail to see the harm in our civilized free country populated by immigrants from all over the world in speaking or reciting in any language. The concepts and the meaning of the "pledge" should not mitigated regardless of the language that is used to communicate it.

    With that said, I am not in favor of our public schools teaching basic subjects in spanish. Even though we may not have an "official" language in this country, english (or some modicum thereof) is the common language. Persons from spanish speaking backgrounds should have the additional burden of becoming educated in the english language if they are to benefit from our public schools.

    I have been accused of being a little liberal for a "redneck." Therefore, I stress that the above is only my humble opinion.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HappyNonoq:
    quote:Originally posted by HappyNanoq


    So, it's a free country.. huh ???


    As long as you speaka any eenglis.. [}:)]

    To be successful (generally speaking) in the U.S., one needs to speak English. We do a dis-service to those that come to our country legally if we do not insist upon them learning the language.

    It is not a question of freedom, it is simply a question of assimilation into our society.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Happy -

    Thanks for weighing in, but you really didn't say anything about your feelings on the subject ... what are you thinking?

    Where's Mond ?

    Personally I'd like to hear from our non-US members on this subject as well!
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds to me like we are wasting much to much of the American Taxpayers money to please so few by having interperters and many things posted and published in dual languages. Motor vehicle Depts are a good example to start with. Lets start cutting funding for this damn foolishness and/or
    just send them back to where "their " language is spoken. Speaking English should be the first requirement for citizenship or a "green card".
  • spryorspryor Member Posts: 9,155
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eboydell
    Frankly, I am shocked at the so called"open minds" that don't care if our entire culture and proud history are watered down and re-written by all of these Mexicans who have no regard for OUR WAY OF LIFE! Just keep making excuses why we should accept this influx of invaders and soon that flag that the U.S. Marines raised at Iwo Jima will be re-written as the Mexican flag.
    Amen!!
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    quote:And if these immigrants are so ashamed of our country that they cannot respect and help preserve our heritage they need to get the hell out of our country!

    Tell that to the Cherokee Nation and the Navajo's and the Seminole Indians and the Choctaw's in Okalahoma. When "we" came to America, we sure as heck did a great job of preserving the heritage that was already here, and had been here for centuries. Maybe some of us need to go back to our "mother" countries and give the land and heritage back to the Indians. [}:)]
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    i have two opinions on this topic:

    1. official business: english only. ordering food, speaking to mechanics or contractors etc. if your conducting business you have to acquiesce to the language of the land. this is so in many countries. i have heard from friends and such that have traveled abroad that if you walk into a restaurant in france, or stop a pededtrian on the street for directions etc, if you dont speak french your sol. this would also apply to public services. forms at the rmv, phone systems at businesses and state offices, school texts and lectures. if its public, its in english. you want to speak another language in your onw home, ok. if your chinese and go to a chinese restaurant, go for it. if its a member only club and you speak the appropriate language, fine. other than those exceptions, english in the language.

    2. private or personal situations: this is where the water gets murky. as far as the Pledge goes, i think that if you want to pledge in spanigh, latin, greek or any other language, im ok with that. your still pledging allegiance to this country, just sounds different. i dont think the Pledge should be recited twice to accomadate foreign languages. i dont see why things that relate to a certain person that decides not to leaarn a language should be changed to accomadate. if you want to do business in this country, learn the language. this referes specifically to optional situations. obviously disabilities dont count, since they are not optional.
  • TooBigTooBig Member Posts: 28,560 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On a talk show yesterday they were saying one of the school districts Had 42 different languages there. Now I don't care what you think they need a common language and it's English. How far will these student go with their native languages in America.[}:)][:D][8]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    America is an english speaking country and the business of the country should be conducted in the language of the country, period.


    I guess you haven't noticed ... thats changing. Even here in Kansas, the middle of the Bible belt we're seeing more and more things in "mexican" ... Its not just "press 1 for english" when you call the un-employeement office anymore ... signs in Wallmart ... bill boards, menue's ...


    _________________________________________________

    Kimber,

    The point of my post is that I have noticed and I am frankly, fed up.

    I live in Arizona within about an hour of the border. On top of that I work for a Sheriff's Office where we get inundated with this crap day in, day out. I have lived this mess and have been exposed to the stark reality for my whole career. I think I get it.

    Seems like we have dumbed down, liberalized and socialized enough folks, or otherwise created such an "open minded" society, that no one sees this as a problem, vastly different from past examples of concentrated immigration.

    Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion...I live in reality, not wishful thinking, or fantasy land.
  • dcinffxvadcinffxva Member Posts: 2,830 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm as racist and bigoted as most of the people here, and not even taking into account the native Americans, but has everyone forgotten that the first settlement by Europeans was in St. Augustine Florida.....by the Spanish ?
  • warriorsfanwarriorsfan Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Didn't our President sing the National Anthem in Spanish several times during campaign stops in Hispanic communities back in 1999?
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
    Didn't our President sing the National Anthem in Spanish several times during campaign stops in Hispanic communities back in 1999?


    Probably, but then again, he has repeatedly demonstrated that he has ulterior motives relating to mass immigration now hasn't he?
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