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another reason why i hate remington

shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2009 in General Discussion
as alot of you know remington has recalled their 17 hmr ammo and semi-auto rem 597's. i stopped stocking remingtons in the store(yes i do have a few i guess, but mostly stopped stocking them)because of there price increases over the last couple of years. now they are only paying 10 a box for ammo and 200 dollars for a their DEFECTIVE rifles. the catch is that it can only go for replacement remington ammo and guns. most 17 rem 597s i sold sold for much more than 200 dollars and if i had one why would i want to sell my defective rifle back for 200 dollars and buy another remington with the money. piss on them.

what do you guys think?

Comments

  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 35,597 ******
    edited November -1
    I think they should have done a general recall with refund of the 522 Viper. Daisy did with their POS rifle 25 years or so ago. Remington should be ashamed.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of the factory warranty work I do is on Remingtons. Their quality control has gone downhill for the last several years. Have an 870 Express waiting on me whenI get to work tomorrow, failure to extract! 597's are the biggest lump o' crap designed. When we went tothe GM shoot they had 2 597 VTR's there, neither one of them would run, 50% stopage!

    lance
  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 31,467 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    failure to extract!


    That is how I ended up with kids! Don
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Most of the factory warranty work I do is on Remingtons. Their quality control has gone downhill for the last several years. Have an 870 Express waiting on me whenI get to work tomorrow, failure to extract!

    lance


    i didnt know that you did warrenty work there zink, when i called remington a few years ago about warrenty work they told me to ship it to "the outdoorsman" in fargo, i have been sending people with problems there, i guess i can send people to you instead. most people here where i live get to fargo about once a month or so so most just take it there themselves instead of paying to ship it.
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 30,833 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why won't your wholesaler deal with this? I would be sending the gun back to RSR or whoever I got it from and telling them they owed me a gun for the price I paid.....let them deal with Remington. My guys have never given me any kind of trouble with returning an item that was a real problem. Just ask for an RA number and you can even have them pick it up.
    LOCUST FORK CURRENT AUCTIONS: https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=618902&PageSize=48 Listings added every Thursday! We do consignments, contact us at [email protected]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Most of the factory warranty work I do is on Remingtons. Their quality control has gone downhill for the last several years. Have an 870 Express waiting on me whenI get to work tomorrow, failure to extract! 597's are the biggest lump o' crap designed. When we went tothe GM shoot they had 2 597 VTR's there, neither one of them would run, 50% stopage!

    lance



    Hey Lance....is there anything you can do to the 597's to get them feeding/eating properly. I have had an early 22 Mag version with the bull barrel and it's a tack driver, but it does have it's feeding issues. It would be nice to get it straightened out...if it were not already on the bottom of Lake Pend Oreille.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shootuadeal
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Most of the factory warranty work I do is on Remingtons. Their quality control has gone downhill for the last several years. Have an 870 Express waiting on me whenI get to work tomorrow, failure to extract!

    lance


    i didnt know that you did warrenty work there zink, when i called remington a few years ago about warrenty work they told me to ship it to "the outdoorsman" in fargo, i have been sending people with problems there, i guess i can send people to you instead. most people here where i live get to fargo about once a month or so so most just take it there themselves instead of paying to ship it.


    Yep, I am a factory warranty center for Rem and several others. Some parts we get are sold to no other gunsmiths except GM. Thanks. When I talked to the gs at The outdoorsman he told me he was ready to get out, he had had enough.

    Lance
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ECC
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Most of the factory warranty work I do is on Remingtons. Their quality control has gone downhill for the last several years. Have an 870 Express waiting on me whenI get to work tomorrow, failure to extract! 597's are the biggest lump o' crap designed. When we went tothe GM shoot they had 2 597 VTR's there, neither one of them would run, 50% stopage!

    lance



    Hey Lance....is there anything you can do to the 597's to get them feeding/eating properly. I have had an early 22 Mag version with the bull barrel and it's a tack driver, but it does have it's feeding issues. It would be nice to get it straightened out...if it were not already on the bottom of Lake Pend Oreille.


    First it would need a good drying and lubing.[;)] They can be polished and tuned to be more reliable. They seem to be a hit and miss thing but polishing and reshaping the ramp helps allot. Oh yeh, keep them clean and well lubed, they are also finicky as to ammo.
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    Why won't your wholesaler deal with this? I would be sending the gun back to RSR or whoever I got it from and telling them they owed me a gun for the price I paid.....let them deal with Remington. My guys have never given me any kind of trouble with returning an item that was a real problem. Just ask for an RA number and you can even have them pick it up.


    this is a remington factory recall of all their 17hmr ammo and all of their 597 rifles chambered in 17 hmr, its not just one gun that i got in or anything like that. and usually when there is a defective gun i just send it back to its respective factory for repair, sometimes i eat the shipping and sometimes(rarely) the customer has to pay for it. the only time i send anything back to the wholesaler is when its the wrong item or something of that nature.


    EDIT-also this is a recall between the customer who bought it and remington. i will be happy to help out my customers affected by this but i dont stock their 17 ammo and ive only sold around 5 of their 597s in 17hmr, i try not to sell junk so i stay away from the 597s.

    also on a side note the only time i need to send someone to a remington repair center is when a 740, 7400 is involved usually(which i try my hardest to talk people out of buying)
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 30,833 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We sold a few of them a long time ago....but I haven't had anyone bring one back with a problem (I guess I am lucky in at least ONE area huh?)

    We had a problem with a model seven that had a little burr on the bolt face....they had us take it to a local store that was a Remington official "repair center" and they did do away with the burr....but left a gouge in the bolt face. We had enough trying to deal with that rifle. Our wholesaler knew we weren't going to buy another thing EVER unless they made that problem go away. They had us send the rifle to them and they delt with Remington.


    Its different with recalls......but I would let the wholesaler know that you don't plan on buying another Remington unless they can tell you why Remington is only going to give you $200 for something you paid more for? I would be soooooo mad if I had a few of them right now.
    LOCUST FORK CURRENT AUCTIONS: https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=618902&PageSize=48 Listings added every Thursday! We do consignments, contact us at [email protected]
  • medic07medic07 Member Posts: 5,223 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    shootuadeal,
    was the ammo issue based on the fact that it shouldnt be used in semiauto firearms and not that it was an issue with their ammo? That was how I read the safety notice. Seriously...what is the issue with 17HMR in semis? We shoot 22 Mags out of semis all the time.

    As to the 597s, I am guessing that this is how Remington is trying to save their backsides from lawsuits since 17HMR is not suitable for semis. Personally I think they should pay full cost for the rifle and let you get whatever you want or even swap you for their Model 5 bolt in 17HMR.
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
    We sold a few of them a long time ago....but I haven't had anyone bring one back with a problem (I guess I am lucky in at least ONE area huh?)

    We had a problem with a model seven that had a little burr on the bolt face....they had us take it to a local store that was a Remington official "repair center" and they did do away with the burr....but left a gouge in the bolt face. We had enough trying to deal with that rifle. Our wholesaler knew we weren't going to buy another thing EVER unless they made that problem go away. They had us send the rifle to them and they delt with Remington.


    Its different with recalls......but I would let the wholesaler know that you don't plan on buying another Remington unless they can tell you why Remington is only going to give you $200 for something you paid more for? I would be soooooo mad if I had a few of them right now.


    there not giving me anything, REMINGTON is giving the consumer 200 dollars if the consumer decides to send the gun back to REMINGTON. i do not blame my WHOLESALERS for REMINGTONS problem just as i wouldnt want my cusomers to blame me for REMINGTONS problem. i dont see how this affects my relationship with around 7 wholesalers because of REMINGTONS inability to control the product coming out of their factory.
  • matwormatwor Member Posts: 20,594
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Yep, I am a factory warranty center for Rem
    Lance


    Oh reaaaaaaaally!!![:p][:D] I did not know that, I've got a Remington Nylon 66 Black Apache w/ a busted stock. Can you order me a new one from Remington?[:D][;)]
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Yep, I am a factory warranty center for Rem
    Lance


    Oh reaaaaaaaally!!![:p][:D] I did not know that, I've got a Remington Nylon 66 Black Apache w/ a busted stock. Can you order me a new one from Remington?[:D][;)]


    Not from Rem, The don't make 'em as afr as I know, but I may be able to find you one if you want, we have allot of parts sources But at what$
  • matwormatwor Member Posts: 20,594
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Yep, I am a factory warranty center for Rem
    Lance


    Oh reaaaaaaaally!!![:p][:D] I did not know that, I've got a Remington Nylon 66 Black Apache w/ a busted stock. Can you order me a new one from Remington?[:D][;)]


    Not from Rem, The don't make 'em as afr as I know, but I may be able to find you one if you want, we have allot of parts sources But at what$


    So Rem will pick up the tab for it right? We are talking about a lifetime warranty item.
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    here it is in its entirety:

    PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING
    AND RECALL NOTICE

    17 HMR AMMUNITION AND MODEL 597r 17 HMR SEMI-AUTOMATIC



    DO NOT USE REMINGTON 17 HMR AMMUNITION IN SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARMS.

    DO NOT USE THE REMINGTON MODEL 597 17 HMR SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.

    Remington has been notified by its supplier of 17 HMR ammunition that 17 HMR ammunition is not suitable for use in semi-automatic firearms. The use of this ammunition in a semi-automatic firearm could result in property damage or serious personal injury.

    If you have a semi-automatic firearm chambered for 17 HMR ammunition, immediately discontinue use of Remington 17 HMR ammunition. If you have any Remington 17 HMR ammunition that you wish to return to Remington contact the Remington Consumer Service number below. Do not return the ammunition to the dealer. Remington will provide you with a $10.00 coupon for each complete box of 50 rounds of Remington branded 17 HMR ammunition you return to Remington. This coupon will be good for the purchase of any Remington ammunition at your local dealer.

    In light of the ammunition manufacturer's notice, it is very important that you immediately stop using your Remington Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle. If you own a Remington Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle and wish to return it to Remington please contact the below Remington Consumer Service Number. In return for your Remington Model 597 17 HMR synthetic stock semi-automatic rifle, Remington will provide you a coupon valued at $200.00 good for the purchase of a replacement Remington firearm. If you have a laminate stock Remington Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle, Remington will provide you a coupon valued at $250.00 good for the purchase of a replacement Remington firearm. Remington will also reimburse you for the actual postage to return your Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle to Remington.

    Please allow up to 6 weeks after Remington receives your Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle or your Remington branded 17 HMR ammunition for the appropriate coupons to arrive. Instructions for redemption of the coupons will be contained on the coupon.

    For any consumer questions or instructions on how to return of your Model 597 17 HMR semi-automatic rifle or your Remington branded 17 HMR ammunition, please contact the Remington Consumer Service Department at 1-800-243-9700, Prompt #3.

    We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    quote:Originally posted by matwor
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Yep, I am a factory warranty center for Rem
    Lance


    Oh reaaaaaaaally!!![:p][:D] I did not know that, I've got a Remington Nylon 66 Black Apache w/ a busted stock. Can you order me a new one from Remington?[:D][;)]


    Not from Rem, The don't make 'em as afr as I know, but I may be able to find you one if you want, we have allot of parts sources But at what$


    So Rem will pick up the tab for it right? We are talking about a lifetime warranty item.


    Not covered, another Remington gotcha! Seems Remington will not cover allot of discontinued guns. Call and try to get them to replace a 66, 76, 740, 742, etc, etc. The worst ones to deal with are Browning and affiliates! No written warranty, I sent back a high grade 28 ga Citori that broke at the wrist on the first shot. No marks, buffs or anything and they tried to charge $800 for it. The owner had it returned unrepaired, took it to the parking loy, run over it with his truch and returned it to Browning that it was his last of their product. The principle was worth more that the gun!
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    how about berretta for crappy customer service also, try to get them to fix a tikka, they wanted me to send them a gun one time to replace a trigger guard and they wanted almost 200 dollars, 75 of which to have there gunsmith install it, right, we mortals are not capable to take out 2 screws and put them back in.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shootuadeal
    how about berretta for crappy customer service also, try to get them to fix a tikka, they wanted me to send them a gun one time to replace a trigger guard and they wanted almost 200 dollars, 75 of which to have there gunsmith install it, right, we mortals are not capable to take out 2 screws and put them back in.


    I got a 686 Onyx in that in less than 1 box, the tab on the stock that fits in the receiver broke off. Not covered, $200 plus labor to fix!
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,887 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey guys, you do know that Cerebus Group owns Remington since 2007, right? They also own Bushmaster, DPMS,Cobb and Marlin. They also owned Chrysler, don't know how that's working out. See any problems here? I'm not buying any new products from any of them. What say you?
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    Hey guys, you do know that Cerebus Group owns Remington since 2007, right? They also own Bushmaster, DPMS,Cobb and Marlin. They also owned Chrysler, don't know how that's working out. See any problems here? I'm not buying any new products from any of them. What say you?


    H&R, NEF and a couple of others that escape my memory right now.
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    Hey guys, you do know that Cerebus Group owns Remington since 2007, right? They also own Bushmaster, DPMS,Cobb and Marlin. They also owned Chrysler, don't know how that's working out. See any problems here? I'm not buying any new products from any of them. What say you?


    H&R, NEF and a couple of others that escape my memory right now.


    also took over most of eaa's and charles daly's imports, than dropped eaa. and yes, that is when there prices started shooting up, when cerberus bought them.
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,887 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whenever one entity owns that many companies I expect to see most of them go belly up before too long. Even bankrupt, with government help?, Obammy buy out?, kill a large part of the firearms industry in one slap.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Remember Anchor Glass (had an anchor on the bottom of the jar)? Cerberus also bought them a while back and they went belly up in less than 4 years.
  • Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 30,833 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry.....I had to go check homework, get things ready for tomorrow and get the kids to go to bed.

    I'm just saying if I were sitting in a store and had rifles sitting on the shelf that HAD NOT SOLD.....and found out there had been a recall......THAT is when I would expect the wholesalers to take care of me. I don't give my money to any manufacturers......never have I EVER written a check to "Remington" so, I expect the guys I pay to take care of any problems that come along. That has always worked with us in the past and if it happens again I will expect that the wholesale guys handle things. We have sent very few things back because of problems......but when it comes up they understand and are on MY side when it comes to a bad product. The very worst thing I have had to deal with was Century over a bad Vulcan 50 cal. Those things are crap.....the bolt handle broke off!!!! Back to Century with that mess!
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  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cerebus Group reminds me of the AMF of the 70's that I would rather forget. How many companies did AMF drive into the ground before Americans woke up? How many AMF era Harley Davidson's do you see still on the road?

    Remington has not made a good firearm since the day they dropped their drawers, bent over and spread their cheeks for Walmart.

    The sad thing is. It's the legitimate firearms dealers that suffers in the long run.
  • Mr. FriendlyMr. Friendly Member Posts: 7,981
    edited November -1
    wow, I have a few remington's, including a 597, and I couldnt be happier with them.
    IMG_1128.jpg
    IMG_0769-1.jpg
    IMG_0763.jpg
  • cnsaycnsay Member Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    they lost me with the lack of support for 788 parts.
  • MemphisJim1MemphisJim1 Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just read this thread and will share my experiences with 597s. I have them in .22LR and .22WMR, both bull barrelled with Evolution stocks, and a plain jane .17HMR. All were bought new. I saw a post in another forum recommending loading the .22WMR mags to 5-6 instead of the full capacity of 8. All my feeding problems went away. The two bull barrel 597s I have are tack drivers and work flawlessly. To date, I've had no issues with the .17HMR but, as recommended, I won't shoot it anymore. I've had several exchanges with Remington on the .17HMR issue. So far, they're holding fast to their proposed buyback on the cheap. I offered to swap it for a Model 5 .17HMR and was informed they're no longer importing that rifle; besides the buyback is the only option they're offering. I paid $399.95 for the rifle new at Sportsman's Warehouse almost exactly two years go. It had a $50 rebate coupon with it, which I sent in with the original receipt and UPC from the box. I have no record of ever receiving the rebate. I'm going to go through that with them again? In which lifetime? Basically, Remington is saying the scrap value of the gun is worth maybe 50% of its original cost. Their coupon is good only for the purchase of another Remington product, so that makes the value more like 25% of the original cost. My view is simple and direct: Remington needs to "man up" as Magnum Research has done, and do right by its customers. Remington is now owned by Cerberus Capital, the same people who were the final owners of Chrysler and the outfit's "suits" (read: lawyers and bean counters) seem determined to take another iconic American brand to its grave. Unless and until Remington decides to do the right thing, my 597 .17HMR will grow whiskers in the gun safe while serving as a reminder about whose company's products will no longer be considered for additions to the personal battery.
  • gatorhidegatorhide Member Posts: 562 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...In January 2009, I received notice that the rebates that I mailed to Remington for ammo purchases would not be honored.

    ...The reason ? ...Remington said they did NOT receive the store receipts from Academy and the ammo box UPC codes, before the deadline ended for the rebate offer.

    ...There was item limits on both the center-fire rifle and handgun ammo purchased which was 2 boxes for each caliber offered with the same address I believe.

    I bought quite a bit of their ammo and substituted the names with addresses of 4 or 5 relatives as the listed purchaser address for the return rebate of said ammo.
    ...Everyone of those relatives and myself included, received the same rejection of rebate notice refund.

    ...Did anyone else here experience technical difficulties with their past offers of ammo rebates ?

    ...Probably lost $50.00 to $60.00 in that deal gone bad, I called Remington and they stood steadfast in NO rebate refunded.
    I then told them to return my receipts and they told me they had already been destroyed.
  • buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Remingtons customer service lost me as a customer 25 years ago.
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gatorhide, there were dozens of my customers that told me the same thing[:(!]


    maybe someone should send a link to this thread to remington so they can see what the average person says about them[B)]
  • gatorhidegatorhide Member Posts: 562 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shootuadeal
    gatorhide, there were dozens of my customers that told me the same thing[:(!]


    maybe someone should send a link to this thread to remington so they can see what the average person says about them[B)]


    ...I'd started to post a thread about this back in Jan. Then got sidetracked and failed to do so.
    ...I had a strong suspicion that there actions with me, involved a wide spread indication of other bamboozled consumers.
  • COLTCOLT Member Posts: 12,637 ******
    edited November -1
    ...Very glad I sold my 597 a year ago! The FIRST round I fired I thought that it was not going to be a reliable rifle just by the way it sounded...by the 2nd mag....I was proven right, POS.

    Same problem, jamomatic. I told the guy who bought it why I was selling it but he knew everything, change ammo/mags/clean & lube properly and it would be "fine"...Ok.

    NO matter how clean or how lubed it was, same thing. It always seemed to me that it cycled SLOW...almost sounded like a Garand when cycling. I know that the bolt was not in a bind but but you could almost watch the bolt cycle in slow motion...[;)]

    ani-texas-flag-2.gif
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