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Got a call from the ATF insp. that did our audit
Locust Fork
Member Posts: 32,080 ✭✭✭✭
It has been several months since we had our audit. I never heard anything back from them....and the inspector told us to just continue on doing business like we have when he left. That alone told me that it was obvious that we were not "lawbreakers" or trying to do anything other than normal business here.
He did find errors....it was paperwork mess.
I talked to him because back when they did the inspection he said since we have an LLC both people that are on the LLC (Larry and myself) need to be on the FFL. So, we filed for a new FFL. I never heard back from them....and it has been plenty of time. I called him and left a message asking if he could please check on why the new FFL paperwork had not come.
He gave me a call back and told me that he had the application for the new FFL on his desk....but he didn't know if we needed that yet. So...now I'm confused. First we needed to have a new FFL because of the LLC....now they don't know if I do or not.
What I think....they are not wanting to give us the new FFL because it will void out the errors that they found on this inspection. A new FFL means a whole new clean slate. With having this inspection showing errors if they come after us in the future they have that to fall back on. At least that is what my tin foil hat wearing persona tells me.
Anyhooo....the inspector says he will be suggesting to his bosses that we be warned and get to continue business. Of course he had to give me that added warning "they can go against my suggestion, but they normally don't"....just so I have that churning worry that comes with this sort of thing.
What kills me about this is what I read people saying about other gun dealers when they are shut down. Its automatically thought to be all the dealer's fault. People say "you should know better" and "if you are a dealer you should KNOW how to do things right." This is easy to say....but nobody is perfect. Do you drive your car perfectly....never breaking the law....if someone could come to you with recordings of every time you drove for the past three years....would you loose your license????
I'm just venting. Oh well.....
He did find errors....it was paperwork mess.
I talked to him because back when they did the inspection he said since we have an LLC both people that are on the LLC (Larry and myself) need to be on the FFL. So, we filed for a new FFL. I never heard back from them....and it has been plenty of time. I called him and left a message asking if he could please check on why the new FFL paperwork had not come.
He gave me a call back and told me that he had the application for the new FFL on his desk....but he didn't know if we needed that yet. So...now I'm confused. First we needed to have a new FFL because of the LLC....now they don't know if I do or not.
What I think....they are not wanting to give us the new FFL because it will void out the errors that they found on this inspection. A new FFL means a whole new clean slate. With having this inspection showing errors if they come after us in the future they have that to fall back on. At least that is what my tin foil hat wearing persona tells me.
Anyhooo....the inspector says he will be suggesting to his bosses that we be warned and get to continue business. Of course he had to give me that added warning "they can go against my suggestion, but they normally don't"....just so I have that churning worry that comes with this sort of thing.
What kills me about this is what I read people saying about other gun dealers when they are shut down. Its automatically thought to be all the dealer's fault. People say "you should know better" and "if you are a dealer you should KNOW how to do things right." This is easy to say....but nobody is perfect. Do you drive your car perfectly....never breaking the law....if someone could come to you with recordings of every time you drove for the past three years....would you loose your license????
I'm just venting. Oh well.....
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Comments
I think they're just trying to rattle your cage.
Thank you Bigcitybill. You are sweet for saying so.
http://www.fflguard.com/
May seem expensive but I believe their "Law plus guidelines" alone are worth the money or as everyone else here says about us FFL's--The "cost of doing business"
We had audits that were probably similar to your last one(most likely since you don't really say what violations you had leaving it vague) and I joined up with FFL guard to protect the business if necassary.
About a year and half after our last audit with violations we had another that we pretty much "aced".
BTW, you WILL have another audit between 12-18 months from the completion date of your last audit that resulted in a warning letter. Fact. Be ready for it.
We had one gun that didn't get logged out. I know exactly where it went....and I contacted the guy and found out he sold it to a local store (so it is very traceable.) I still don't have my paperwork from the IRS...so I cannot put my hands on the form.
Altogether there were 13 mistakes...but each thing is easy to see that it was nothing but human error.
One of my friends asked if I had any cheap shotguns. There is always a pile of single shots and such here....so I let him buy one. He got a delay. He called back two days later and asked if he could buy another one he had seen out of the pile. Sure...come do another form. He did and got a second delay. The very next day was the IRS raid mess. The day after the raid he was supposed to come pick up the first transaction. I was a frazzled MESS. I gave him both things and didn't think twice about it.
Back when I worked retail the inspections came pretty regular. We were a high volume store...so they just came every other year or so. It helped to get things straight and fix things that were missed.....like when the computer didn't log out Glenfield 22s because they were logged in as Marlin 22s.
I don't know if it is more worrysome because I am a "kitchen table dealer".....I really do think they try to do away with as many of the smaller dealers as possible. The retail stores they see are doing a little for the economy....but the home based dealers aren't anything like this in their eyes. At least that is my impression.
These folks have a job to do. Don't let them inside your head. It's just their job!
You are right.
I don't know why, but I feel like a target these days.
Doing business by internet(as in Gun Broker)? Not acceptable. You MUST have walk in customers. The inspector told me all this BEFORE pointing out the "human errors" and beginning the intimidation phase.
quote:Originally posted by cartod
These folks have a job to do. Don't let them inside your head. It's just their job!
You are right.
I don't know why, but I feel like a target these days.
It probably has something to do with the power they have to ruin people's lives and put them in prison!! Just a guess tho [:D]
Often they change a reg or law and don't even bother to tell licensees. It is your responsibility they say.
Large corps have to hire a large staff of compliance officers and lawyers for the purpose of ensuring complaince and defending them from legal actions and frivolous lawsuits. Some laws are so ambiguous and vague, they have to pay an interpreter. Cost to comply costs corps billions -- passed on to the consumers of course.
Sadly, small business does not have the capitol to maintain a staff of compliance personell, lawyers etc. All it takes is one minor mistake to have a licence/permit revoked, or one lawsuit to destroy a small business. Plus fines can run the range of minor to devastaing.
We hope you fair well.
These folks have a job to do. Don't let them inside your head. It's just their job!
Yes, Doing this day in and day out, the guy probably has no idea or intention of making you sweat. He wants to go home and drink beer just like the majority of employees. It will be over soon and just like making it through a recession, you will then have made it through an audit as well.
The next one will be business as usual. [:D]
When you are with someone day in and day out...and thats the only person you deal with you tend to pick their faults to pieces.
13 minor errors over several years isn't really all that bad. Since I have never had any audits they went from now....all the way back to the beginning. We are talking 8 years of records. I don't think it was horrible.
Back when we were in retail the computer errors with the log book were the most frustrating. You didn't know what mistakes were there until you actually printed the A&D book out....and went through the whole store to find out if it matched the inventory. There were ALWAYS things you had to figure out when you did this. Then you had the fact that 10 employees were doing the paperwork....there were always silly things like the hospital name put where "place of birth" goes....or other silly mess.
When we had the inspections at the store if it was correctable as we went along they let us fix things. After an audit it was almost a good feeling to know your errors were all gone and things were fine.
I don't understand why "human error" type mistakes can be used to harass a business. I understand if you are doing anything KNOWINGLY wrong...or if you are in any way doing anything that would be criminal....but minor errors that were not intentional should not be allowed to be used to shut someone down.