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Obama's import ban?

Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,821
edited September 2013 in General Discussion
Someone said it only covers re importation of former military inventory weapons. Others say it will effect all imports like Romanian AK's Etc. How about parts kits? Will CETME's become scarce?

Comments

  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,372 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    USGI lend lease rifles have not been importable since Clinton was president. CMP had to literally get an act of Congress to bring back rifles that really belonged to the US. This will stop them from getting more M1 rifles.

    The Great Liar does things by increment. Expect the items you listed to be the next step. But, not yet.

    Neal
  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 23,010 ******
    edited November -1
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    C&P from Fox news:

    One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities. The White House said the U.S. has approved 250,000 of those guns to be reimported since 2005; under the new policy, only museums and a few other entities like the government will be eligible to reimport military-grade firearms.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/29/obama-announces-new-gun-control-measures-targets-military-surplus-imports/#ixzz2dakvhZSS
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    can congress do anything about this?
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RobOz
    can congress do anything about this?


    Congress can try, but it won't do much good.

    Right now re-importation of a formerly military firearm is a US State Department decision. Example would be when South Korea tried to sell old M1's and M1 Carbines back to American buyers, the Hillary State Department said yes.

    But then the ATF objected and Hillary reversed the decision.

    Congress could take this away from the State Department, and therefore remove it from Executive purview. But do not go putting any high hopes on it. While the House would vote that way, the Senate would not and the President would veto such a change in the law.

    A court challenge may have greater potential for success. Someone would have to be able to show they were harmed by this ban for any court to consider the suit. An import company could do that, could show loss of income for false claims of harm to the public good.

    Going to court is always risky, you cannot predict how things will end and if a precedent you do not like is created, you've screwed yourself.

    The legal beagles of the gun industry, gun importers and the NRA-ILA should examine it very closely, weigh the odds of success.

    Wonder if they will bother?
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.



    Been looking and not finding them. My guess is the language is being finalized after the announcement, to see what the response is. From that response they will do a bit of editing, then post them.

    Two places where they may turn up first, unless some media outlet manages to snag and post an official copy sooner:

    The Federal Register has nothing new since August 9:
    https://www.federalregister.gov/executive-orders

    White House has the same list, updated two days sooner:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders
  • nemesisenforcernemesisenforcer Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.


    Clinton's ban was in 1994 if memory serves, and expired in 2004 which is why we've seen such an influx of AKs and assorted other weapons in the past few years from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Poland, and other God forsaken wastelands.
  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 23,010 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.


    Clinton's ban was in 1994 if memory serves, and expired in 2004 which is why we've seen such an influx of AKs and assorted other weapons in the past few years from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Poland, and other God forsaken wastelands.


    That was the 1994 Crime Bill and dealt with domestic produciton and not imports. When that ban sunsetted in 2004 it once again became possible to build military style semi autos with features that were banned on imports so long as enough US made parts were used and/or American made receivers. The Clinton AW import ban was in two phases: the frist was ealry in his first term and dealt with firearms like the HK SP-89 and various other "assualt pistols" which escaped the 1989 Bush ban. Late in his second term some semi auto rifles like the HK SR-9 which were imported as "target" rifles and some other semi auto rifles which were otherwise compliant but capable of accepting high capacity magazines were banned. Neither the Bush ban nor the Clinton import bans have expired and remain solidly in force.

    Your own CETME rifle is a good example:
    http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=555996

    Was that rifle actually made in Spain by Centro de Estudios T?cnicos de Materiales Especiales, the firm that built the military rifles and the pre ban Sporters? No, it was not imported and instead is a collection of Spanish and German cast-off parts slapped onto a US made receiver in the United States and sold by Century Arms. What ever ended up happening with that thing? Did you ever get it to work correctly?
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,884 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No matter what it says they will do what he intends whether it makes sense or not. His intention is to stop any source of guns any way he can until he can get around to closing down all gun dealers and manufacturers. The dirty lying POS SOB. This goes for all Democraps too. You stupid SOBS.
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only solution is stop electing Democrats. About 90% of them are committed to destroying legal gun ownership. The other 10% go along with the vote when pressured by party leaders.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    The only solution is stop electing Democrats. About 90% of them are committed to destroying legal gun ownership. The other 10% go along with the vote when pressured by party leaders.


    Bullcrap.

    http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2009/important-message-from-nra-chief-lobbyi.aspx
    Important Message From NRA Chief Lobbyist Chris W. Cox on Attorney General Holder's Recent Remarks Supporting Reinstatement of the Failed 1994 Gun and Magazine Ban

    Posted on March 18, 2009

    Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines. These congressmen cited numerous studies that proved the 1994 ban was ineffective, and they strongly urged Attorney General Holder to stop his effort and instead focus on the enforcement of existing gun laws.

    NRA would like to thank Congressman Ross for his leadership on this effort. We will continue to work with Members of Congress from both parties on this important issue.

    Naturally Blue Dog Dems were targeted by Tea Party Baggers and other crackpots. The end result was to strengthen the anti-gunners side, not weaken it.
  • utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,960 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    USGI lend lease rifles have not been importable since Clinton was president. CMP had to literally get an act of Congress to bring back rifles that really belonged to the US. This will stop them from getting more M1 rifles.

    The Great Liar does things by increment excrement. Expect the items you listed to be the next step. But, not yet.

    Neal


    Fixed that error for you.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RobOz
    can congress do anything about this?

    Can "WE THE PEOPLE" do anything about this?[:(!][:(!]
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,191 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have little hope from our dinosaur leaders...
    Big hearts for give aways. Small brains for figuring details.

    Result... Extinction!
  • 17tobyracing17tobyracing Member Posts: 3,429
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    The only solution is stop electing Democrats. About 90% of them are committed to destroying legal gun ownership. The other 10% go along with the vote when pressured by party leaders.


    Bullcrap.

    http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2009/important-message-from-nra-chief-lobbyi.aspx
    Important Message From NRA Chief Lobbyist Chris W. Cox on Attorney General Holder's Recent Remarks Supporting Reinstatement of the Failed 1994 Gun and Magazine Ban

    Posted on March 18, 2009

    Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines. These congressmen cited numerous studies that proved the 1994 ban was ineffective, and they strongly urged Attorney General Holder to stop his effort and instead focus on the enforcement of existing gun laws.

    NRA would like to thank Congressman Ross for his leadership on this effort. We will continue to work with Members of Congress from both parties on this important issue.

    Naturally Blue Dog Dems were targeted by Tea Party Baggers and other crackpots. The end result was to strengthen the anti-gunners side, not weaken it.


    Remove your head from your rectum. Dems are the source of the majority of attacks on the 2nd Amendment. End of story, lock-step useful idiot.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.



    Been looking and not finding them. My guess is the language is being finalized after the announcement, to see what the response is. From that response they will do a bit of editing, then post them.

    Two places where they may turn up first, unless some media outlet manages to snag and post an official copy sooner:

    The Federal Register has nothing new since August 9:
    https://www.federalregister.gov/executive-orders

    White House has the same list, updated two days sooner:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders




    Just checked again today and they are not there yet. kind of wonder why. Cause the others were written and posted on that site within 2 days.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,626 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.
    Here is a link to the bill text:
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2247/text
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.
    Here is a link to the bill text:
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2247/text



    Its not a Bill its and executive Order Obama Signed sometime last week. Now the text may be the same but we are not sure that's why all the confusion.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    The only solution is stop electing Democrats. About 90% of them are committed to destroying legal gun ownership. The other 10% go along with the vote when pressured by party leaders.


    Bullcrap.

    http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2009/important-message-from-nra-chief-lobbyi.aspx
    Important Message From NRA Chief Lobbyist Chris W. Cox on Attorney General Holder's Recent Remarks Supporting Reinstatement of the Failed 1994 Gun and Magazine Ban

    Posted on March 18, 2009

    Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines. These congressmen cited numerous studies that proved the 1994 ban was ineffective, and they strongly urged Attorney General Holder to stop his effort and instead focus on the enforcement of existing gun laws.

    NRA would like to thank Congressman Ross for his leadership on this effort. We will continue to work with Members of Congress from both parties on this important issue.

    Naturally Blue Dog Dems were targeted by Tea Party Baggers and other crackpots. The end result was to strengthen the anti-gunners side, not weaken it.

    I was just wondering how the tea party targeting blue dog dems would "strengthen the anti-gun side, not weaken it"
    Were they replaced by anti-gun tea party candidates.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,626 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    Despite several threads no one has been able to show the actual wording of the proposed Executive Order. If it says import or reimport then that will be the end of any such weapons being commercially imported back into the United States. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) does not import firearms but instead receives rifles that are returned to the US Army, either from overseas or from US depots, which must be .22 rimfire or .30 caliber and are declared by the Army as surplus to their needs. These are typically M1 Rifles (Garands), M1 Carbines, Model 1903 Springfield's and various .22 caliber training rifles and since they are returns they are outside the scope of import regulations (which is why they have no import stampings). Semi automatic military style rifles such as AKs were banned by Bush back in 1989 and again with a "clean up" (ones that Poppa Bush managed to miss) by Clinton in 1997 so there is little more damage that can be done in that area of imports that has not already accomplished. Barrels for military weapons have been prohibited from importation since 2004 so no parts kits have contained barrels since that time. We need to see the text of the Executive Order to know what is going to happen.
    Here is a link to the bill text:
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2247/text



    Its not a Bill its and executive Order Obama Signed sometime last week. Now the text may be the same but we are not sure that's why all the confusion.
    Ooops, the link I posted is to a house resolution that would stop/prevent the EO from taking/having any effect.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • nards444nards444 Member Posts: 4,085
    edited November -1
    Ive seen the wording and it covers what the US either gave away or sold to other countries. Which that implies to me anything we manufactured and then exported, we did not export AKs nagants etc, so they should be exluded.
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