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Small Block Chevy

buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 2006 in General Discussion
Time has come and I need to replace the engine in my 81 El Camino that I have owned for 25 years.It has a 305 4barrel with 300,000 miles.It idles rough and I've checked for vacuum leaks but I think it has a burned valve or worn out cam or both.First thought was go to a slightly hot rodded 350.Second thought was I don't want to have to buy high test gas at 10 MPG.Anybody have experience with a 305 HO with a good after market 4barrel? Where is the best place to buy an engine.I looked on line at GM crate perfomance engines but the prices seemed steep.Thanks
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Comments

  • sig232sig232 Member Posts: 8,018
    edited November -1
    If you want to go cheap a good wrecking yard can offer a lot of different engines with various miles on them. Its a crap shoot but its the cheap way to go. A crate engine is the reliable way, but costs a premium. How about one of those yummy 502 crate jobbys.
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rebuild kits for a mouse are dirt cheap. Sure you will need some machine shop work but you will come out with something a lot less $$ than a crate and no worries as with a used.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've got just the motor for you....

    http://www.lingenfelter.com/pack_cor_c5_725.htm
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
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  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Trust me on this......

    If you want a 350...go for it. You can buy a crate 350 from GM for about a grand. There is NO substitute for cubic inches.

    If you go with the 305, there is only enough meat in the cylinders to safely go 0.030" over.

    Heads - one of two keys - you want the smaller chamber, larger valve 305 heads - usually come on the two barrel motors. Use these with the flat top 305 four barrel pistons...and you get 9.5:1 compression (don't worry, it will not ping).

    Next, go with a STOCK 350 cam. Do NOT buy a cam specified for a 305. Stock or replacement 305 cams are ground retarded - to get more torque out of the small engine. A stock 350 cam completely wakes up a 305, throughout the power band.

    For fun, I ran a 67 four door Bel Air at the drags, turning 15.6 quarter mile times @ 90 mph. No, not impressive...but when you consider how heavy the car is and it had 2.73 gears...THAT is a wonder!!! Yes, I still have the timeslips.

    I built several for other people, all nearly the same.

    Do not put a Performer intake on them - too big of intake ports. Find an Edelbrock SP2P or something similar from Weiand or Holley. No single plane intakes either. 305's are done making power at 5200 rpm (unless you put aftermarket heads, blah, blah, blah).

    Don't forget to rebuild your transmission, flush the cooling system, replace the battery cables, and at least pull your starter apart...you have a new engine that will take a little grunt to start, so everything else has to be up to snuff.

    Stick with the 500 cfm Carter carb. Can go with the 625, but it is just a bit overkill.

    Get rid of your HEI - they are junk, period. Go aftermarket. Point distributor is better than an HEI. HEI's are also expensive to work on (good coil is $50, good cap/rotor - $50, wires - as much as you want to spend). I prefer Unilite, but MSD makes a good distributor as well. Definitely like the MSD 6/6A/6AL boxes - do NOT get hit by one of these, your finger or arm will tingle for awhile!!
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  • DaBowMan18DaBowMan18 Member Posts: 2,962
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cubslovers
    I've got just the motor for you....

    http://www.lingenfelter.com/pack_cor_c5_725.htm
    [:0][B)]
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  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Oh...get rid of the stock manifolds...small tube headers...1 5/8" MAX tube diameter. 1 1/2" if you can find them.
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  • xstuntmanxstuntman Member Posts: 678 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes the crate engines are pricey compared to long blocks from Auto Zone or others but the quality is like apples and oranges. I have 4 Chevy trucks/Suburbans from the 70's/80's and I've made a couple mistakes, one of which was to wast money on a cut rate long block from one of the above parts stores. Never again. The heads are pure crap and didn't last 17,000 miles. The block has 52,000 on it and no. 7 cylinder is pretty low on compression so time is short. And yes it'll get a crate motor this fall.
    Your first factory engine went a long time which tells you something. BTW, rebuilding your motor will most likely be even more than the crate. Factor in GM's warranty and they're hard to beat. Just my 2, MIKE
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  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    dcloco, that '67 reminded of my second car, a '67 Impala SS, Aztec Gold, bucket seats, console automatic, 283, 2 bbl. Fun car, but like you said, not a screamer. Too much weight, too little engine. Had to put in the new cam at about 80,000. The old one looked like a Christmas tree with the wear taper from front to back. They never hardened the lobes on those things well enough, the oiling was too far back, and once it started to wear, it melted like butter.
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
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  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:There is NO substitute for cubic inches



    I believe the correct saying is.....

    There is no replacement for displacement.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
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  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cubslovers
    quote:There is NO substitute for cubic inches



    I believe the correct saying is.....

    There is no replacement for displacement.

    It takes the cubes to move the p.....
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
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  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    If you don't spend the money for what they call an HO motor it should fairly reasonable. You don't need 4 bolt mains. the sad thing is, you need to also buy an intake and carb ( I like the edelbrok set up carter style)), figure out how to mount your pollution controls and fresh air pump and EGR. you could put pipes on but if you have smog testing in your area that could mean problems down the road....rebuilding the heads on a motor with that many miles is a mistake. you will end up with alot of blowby unless you rebuild the whole motor. I think a well tuned 350 will do as well at the pump as the 305 so don't let that stop you....also the 264 cam works well for street good power and torque without a stall converter or lumpy idle (still runs nice sounds badass)
    sounds like a great project and the cars are becomming collectors so if you like it I wouldn't be afraid to put some money in it.
    Good luck, send pictures[8D]
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  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    Get a 327 small journal block and run a 283 crank in it...you'll have a de-stroked 350 or more commonly known as the Chevy 302. A high rpm chevy smallblock that GM only made for a year or two to compete with the Mustang in the late 60's.

    Go with cast iron camel hump heads that have 2.02 valves scavenged from the local pick and pull...have a machine shop rebuild them with new guides, valves, and seals.

    Run a good 350 cam, single plane aluminum intake, 600+ cfm carb, HEI distributor, and headers going out to dual exhaust with 40 series flowmasters. Get a 700R4 auto tranny with a 2400rpm stall non-locking torque convertor and rebuild the rear axle with 4.11 gears.


    http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-engines.shtml#chevrolet-302

    It'll be cheap to build and you can be dang sure nobody else has a small block that likes to be shifted at very high rpms.
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  • Blade SlingerBlade Slinger Member Posts: 5,891
    edited November -1
    327????????????? where on earth do you find a good 327. Last one I seen for sale was a bare block,not magnafluxed $500.00 at Carlisle pa.
    If you got a couple of 300 hp motors laying around let me know.
    Thanks,
    SB
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  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    There's a 327 on fleabay for $50. Item number: 8061954850


    another here: Item number: 4637171715
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  • bang250bang250 Member Posts: 8,021
    edited November -1
    Had a 350 mildliy built with TRW pistons, Edelbrock performer cam, intake carb, valve springs, roller rockers, pete jackson gear drive, chromoly puch rods, blah blah blah.. if you kept your foot out of it you could get 18 mph easy. It was in a 73 Nova.

    If you stepped in it, it'd smokem threw the 3.73 and built trans with and easy second gear scratch.

    I miss that car[V]
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  • agman1999agman1999 Member Posts: 981 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've got a small journal 327 block, and a '66 Impala that's waiting for the 454 to replace its tired 283. The crank out of the 283 is going to find its way into the 327 block, so I can build a long-rod 302 with a roller valvetrain, and find something light to drop it in. Only problem is that I don't know if I should expect the engine to hold together very well. I'd probably be better off to buy a good forged large journal/short stroke crank instead of wasting money on the factory stuff.

    Don't waste your money building a 305. If you aren't going to buy a crate engine, then a 350 with the small chamber 305 heads isn't a bad idea for some cheap torque. Also, look into running a 6" rod, if it fits into your budget. 9.5 compression should serve you well. With conservative timing, it won't ping on cheap gas.

    If this is your daily driver, a standard crate motor might not be a bad idea. I put a new GM Goodwrench 350 (think they used to call it the Targetmaster) in my farm truck. If you can ignore the "Hecho in Mexico" cast into the block, it's not a bad route to go. $1400 out the door, 3 yr/36,000 mile warranty, brand new engine. Now that the warranty is out on mine, I'll probably pull it and slip in a new cam, and possibly change the heads. I fully expect it to outlast this truck, and the next one it goes into.
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  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    the bad thing about that chev 302 is they don't run well with an auto trans or 2.73 gears they build horspower above 2500. I like the 700 R4 trans idea. that would be the best way to improve economy in an older car 1500 RPM at 60mph in overdrive vs 2500 with a 1 to 1 ratio makes good sense
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  • 65gto38965gto389 Member Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What about this place?

    http://www.enginefactory.com/

    http://www.enginefactory.com/chevypro.htm


    http://www.musclecarengines.com/
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  • IAMACLONE_2IAMACLONE_2 Member Posts: 4,725
    edited November -1
    440CI small block, Yeah Baby, 440"'s
    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0306_406/
    Good price to considering..
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  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,522 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Surely you can find something here http://www.autoracingtrader.com/racing_engines.htm
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  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by agman1999
    The crank out of the 283 is going to find its way into the 327 block, so I can build a long-rod 302 with a roller valvetrain,....

    The rods are the same length 5.7" if using stock rods. If you use a 6.0" rod, the gains are minimal and the piston spends more time at TDC and BDC because the dwell of the piston is increased due to the length of rod being increased.

    quote:Originally posted by agman1999
    Don't waste your money building a 305. If you aren't going to buy a crate engine, then a 350 with the small chamber 305 heads isn't a bad idea for some cheap torque.


    If you put small chamber heads from a 305 on a 350 engine, your compression ratio is in the 12.5 to 13.5 ratio - it will not run on anything less than 110 octane. Will have not torque to boot.
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  • chris_cechris_ce Member Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't really like older chevy stuff but if it were me.
    383 STROKER
    http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=1674
    $625 for parts
    $150 for a rebuildable junkyard 350
    $150 to machine the block
    $60 to check the heads
    $70 to mill the heads
    $125 for a 3 angle valve job
    for a total of 1180
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  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Or....get the best of both worlds from your small block...torque AND rpm.

    400 block, 350 crank = 377.....

    Scat makes a drop in crank - mains the size of the 400 block, rods the size of 350 (2.100).

    No funky block clearancing for rods.

    Use the standard 5.7 length stock rods (or go 6.0).

    Use OPEN chamber heads - as in the 76 or 78 cc variety. Of course, use some 2.00 or 2.02 /1.6 valve sizes.
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  • KrisWKrisW Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Get a crate motor. They have a warranty. Just a simple 350 will do a daily driver fine. You can get them turn-key if you like. I am gonna disagree about the HEI. Get one. The motor will be pretty much a straight swap. You can get crate motors from several places with 300-400hp and run 9.5-10.5 compression. just depends on what you like. 91 octane would push a 10.0 compression motor.
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  • Blade SlingerBlade Slinger Member Posts: 5,891
    edited November -1
    Thanks,most of the


    s around this part of the country found their way into stock cars.quote:Originally posted by Red223
    There's a 327 on fleabay for $50. Item number: 8061954850


    another here: Item number: 4637171715
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  • civiliansoldierciviliansoldier Member Posts: 430 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If all you want is a healthy street motor that is pump friendly, I would go for one of the less expensive GM crate motors such as the ones available at www.jegs.com. You cannot properly rebuild an engine for what these units cost, plus you get all new parts and a warranty. Copy and paste this url to your address bar and check it out. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=26025&parentCategoryId=10763&langId=-1 This is a good deal. I have built many a motor and can honestly tell you it will cost more than this to rebuild a used one properly.
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  • civiliansoldierciviliansoldier Member Posts: 430 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, you all were talking about a small journal 327 build, I have a set of small journal rods and pistons for a 327. They are dome pistons probably around 11.1 depending on the heads. If some one wants them, e-mail me, I will probably never use them.
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